I though I'd mention this to help any budding allotment growers.

Seen on our site this year...
1. Tomatoes not staked sufficiently strongly for the more exposed open
allotment site so they collapse when covered in fruit, it rains adding
weight and it's windy. Make a sturdy wooden/steel goal post type structure
and tie the canes to that.
2. Indeterminate Tomatoes not pinched out and allowed to do their own thing.
3. Pumpkins and other cucurbits planted too close not realising their
ability to grow.
3. Onions planted late and not weeded so they got large spring onions in
effect as they grew to the light.
4. Tender plants bought from Garden Centres and planted immediately, much
too early. (they were very lucky we had no late frosts here) The very end of
May beginning of June is early enough.
5. Runner Beans planted up bamboo canes that are too short and again not
strong enough to take the weight and wind without sturdier help (wood or
steel poles) so they all collapse.
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the long
term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of lettuce
seeds in one go, so most go to waste.


--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
I though I'd mention this to help any budding allotment growers.

Seen on our site this year...
1. Tomatoes not staked sufficiently strongly for the more exposed open
allotment site so they collapse when covered in fruit, it rains adding
weight and it's windy. Make a sturdy wooden/steel goal post type structure
and tie the canes to that.
2. Indeterminate Tomatoes not pinched out and allowed to do their own
thing.
3. Pumpkins and other cucurbits planted too close not realising their
ability to grow.
3. Onions planted late and not weeded so they got large spring onions in
effect as they grew to the light.
4. Tender plants bought from Garden Centres and planted immediately, much
too early. (they were very lucky we had no late frosts here) The very end
of May beginning of June is early enough.
5. Runner Beans planted up bamboo canes that are too short and again not
strong enough to take the weight and wind without sturdier help (wood or
steel poles) so they all collapse.
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the long
term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of
lettuce seeds in one go, so most go to waste.


I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

But hey, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

Steve

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:51:26 +0100, "shazzbat"
wrote:


"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
I though I'd mention this to help any budding allotment growers.

Seen on our site this year...
1. Tomatoes not staked sufficiently strongly for the more exposed open
allotment site so they collapse when covered in fruit, it rains adding
weight and it's windy. Make a sturdy wooden/steel goal post type structure
and tie the canes to that.
2. Indeterminate Tomatoes not pinched out and allowed to do their own
thing.
3. Pumpkins and other cucurbits planted too close not realising their
ability to grow.
3. Onions planted late and not weeded so they got large spring onions in
effect as they grew to the light.
4. Tender plants bought from Garden Centres and planted immediately, much
too early. (they were very lucky we had no late frosts here) The very end
of May beginning of June is early enough.
5. Runner Beans planted up bamboo canes that are too short and again not
strong enough to take the weight and wind without sturdier help (wood or
steel poles) so they all collapse.
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the long
term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of
lettuce seeds in one go, so most go to waste.


I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".
There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory. It is unrealistic to
expect brand new allotment gardeners to avoid mistakes and to have
garnered all relevant experience. Also who's to say there is only one
method of doing something - the GW programme on allotments showed a wide
range of practices being used and yet everyone seemed to be able to
grown the stuff they wanted. Isn't that the point?

I don't have an allotment but I worked on my Dad's two allotments for a
number of years so I have a little bit of knowledge and experience
before I get "jumped on" as a "know nothing" person.

But hey, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

*ding*
--
Paul C

I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".
There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory. It is unrealistic to
expect brand new allotment gardeners to avoid mistakes and to have
garnered all relevant experience. Also who's to say there is only one
method of doing something - the GW programme on allotments showed a wide
range of practices being used and yet everyone seemed to be able to
grown the stuff they wanted. Isn't that the point?

I don't have an allotment but I worked on my Dad's two allotments for a
number of years so I have a little bit of knowledge and experience
before I get "jumped on" as a "know nothing" person.

But hey, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

*ding*
--
Paul C

I agree with Paul, here. I'm still waiting for my first allotment (any
day now) & started reading this thread with some anticipation but it
seems to have decended into a rather unpleasant "tut-tut" listing.

If those more experienced allotmenteers have some tips to offer or
common pitfalls to avoid I'll be extremely grateful, but I'm sure that
the selfish behaviour listed above is in no way dictated by the length
of time someone has had an allotment - rather more due to the sort of
person they are...

Barry

Snip

I agree with Paul, here. I'm still waiting for my first allotment (any
day now) & started reading this thread with some anticipation but it
seems to have decended into a rather unpleasant "tut-tut" listing.

If those more experienced allotmenteers have some tips to offer or
common pitfalls to avoid I'll be extremely grateful, but I'm sure that
the selfish behaviour listed above is in no way dictated by the length
of time someone has had an allotment - rather more due to the sort of
person they are...

Ok, to be fair, Bob did say his aim was to help, and I'm certainly not going
to have a go at him,. I just have a more relaxed attitude. When you look
round our allotment site, the plots range from practically jungle to neatly
manicured with not weed in sight. A lot depends on your circumstances. One
of ours is retired and spends almost every day on his plot, openly admitting
he goes there to get away from 'er indoors. Some others work full time and
squeeze in an hour or two when they can.
Make mistakes and don't worry about them, for two reasons -

1- It's just gardening, nobody dies.

2.- When you've dug it up and eaten it or composted it, the evidence is
gone.

And since you asked for tips to offer and pitfalls to avoid, here are a
couple.-

Grow small amounts of lots of different things, if you grow loads of one
thing, you get a massive surplus which probably won't keep and has to be
given away or dumped. Also, If you concentrate on one thing and that thing
has a bad year, you're toast. Every year you will have successes and
failures. You will learn with experience, we all are.

Ask the other allotmenteers what grows well in the soil you've got, and what
doesn't. there's no reason you shouldn't benefit from the mistakes they made
twenty years ago.

Avoid trying to do too much too soon, you just get disheartened. It's much
better to have half a plot of weeds and a couple of rows of veg than a plot
with no weeds but no crops.


I hope you get your allotment soon and it gives you as much satisfaction as
mine gives me.

And finally, remember there are three things you should do whenever you
visit your allotment -


1 A bit of gardening.

2 A bit of talking.

3 A bit of nothing.

Steve
See our plot (and admire our weeds) here-

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/steveandmaggiesplot

I hope people didn't think I was having a go at the original posts.
The points about the potential height & weight of the produce are
great. I just can't believe that anyone would be ignorant of the facts
that you should 'shut the gate' and 'dont tip on other plots'.

Anyway. If I came over as stroppy, I appologise. It certainly wasn't
intended.


1 A bit of gardening.
2 A bit of talking.
3 A bit of nothing.
Thanks for these Steve... Where does 'drinking tea' fall into these
categories? So far my allotment planning comprises:
- Tea making facilities (kelly kettle)
- Biscuits
- Emergency biscuits

Barry.

On 14/9/06 12:35, in article
, "Bazzler"
wrote:

I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".
There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory. It is unrealistic to
expect brand new allotment gardeners to avoid mistakes and to have
garnered all relevant experience. Also who's to say there is only one
method of doing something - the GW programme on allotments showed a wide
range of practices being used and yet everyone seemed to be able to
grown the stuff they wanted. Isn't that the point?

I don't have an allotment but I worked on my Dad's two allotments for a
number of years so I have a little bit of knowledge and experience
before I get "jumped on" as a "know nothing" person.

But hey, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

*ding*
--
Paul C

I agree with Paul, here. I'm still waiting for my first allotment (any
day now) & started reading this thread with some anticipation but it
seems to have decended into a rather unpleasant "tut-tut" listing.

If those more experienced allotmenteers have some tips to offer or
common pitfalls to avoid I'll be extremely grateful, but I'm sure that
the selfish behaviour listed above is in no way dictated by the length
of time someone has had an allotment - rather more due to the sort of
person they are...


Let's get back to basics. Bob did not tut at anyone and didn't describe
selfish behaviour. He described some common errors made by people new to
allotments, as observed by someone very experienced on an allotment. If I
was a new allotment holder, I'd be grateful to receive some time, labour and
money saving advice such as this. Personally, I think it would be a good
inclusion in the FAQs. I can't count how many posts we've had here from now
allotment holders, asking "how do I start" sort of questions.
Remarks about closing gates and not stealing other peoples' produce, which
should be elementary to any half decent person anywhere, were not from Bob.
Once people have more experience I'm sure they can and will experiment with
different methods, times of sowing, fertiliser, ground management etc. but
these basic tips to get you started came from a helpful and knowledgeable
member of urg. We're lucky to have him and if people take offence at
receiving impartial and helpful advice, I can't imagine what they're doing
on a group which is stiff with both.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 14/9/06 12:35, in article
, "Bazzler"
wrote:

I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".
There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory. It is unrealistic to
expect brand new allotment gardeners to avoid mistakes and to have
garnered all relevant experience. Also who's to say there is only one
method of doing something - the GW programme on allotments showed a wide
range of practices being used and yet everyone seemed to be able to
grown the stuff they wanted. Isn't that the point?

I don't have an allotment but I worked on my Dad's two allotments for a
number of years so I have a little bit of knowledge and experience
before I get "jumped on" as a "know nothing" person.

But hey, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

*ding*
--
Paul C

I agree with Paul, here. I'm still waiting for my first allotment (any
day now) & started reading this thread with some anticipation but it
seems to have decended into a rather unpleasant "tut-tut" listing.

If those more experienced allotmenteers have some tips to offer or
common pitfalls to avoid I'll be extremely grateful, but I'm sure that
the selfish behaviour listed above is in no way dictated by the length
of time someone has had an allotment - rather more due to the sort of
person they are...


Let's get back to basics. Bob did not tut at anyone and didn't describe
selfish behaviour. He described some common errors made by people new to
allotments, as observed by someone very experienced on an allotment. If
I
was a new allotment holder, I'd be grateful to receive some time, labour
and
money saving advice such as this. Personally, I think it would be a good
inclusion in the FAQs. I can't count how many posts we've had here from
now
allotment holders, asking "how do I start" sort of questions.
Remarks about closing gates and not stealing other peoples' produce, which
should be elementary to any half decent person anywhere, were not from
Bob.
Once people have more experience I'm sure they can and will experiment
with
different methods, times of sowing, fertiliser, ground management etc.
but
these basic tips to get you started came from a helpful and knowledgeable
member of urg. We're lucky to have him and if people take offence at
receiving impartial and helpful advice, I can't imagine what they're doing
on a group which is stiff with both.

I've been trying to grow vegetables for about 40 years, but still make
mistakes!

Alan

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

Paul Corfield writes
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:51:26 +0100, "shazzbat"
wrote:

I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".
There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory. It is unrealistic to
expect brand new allotment gardeners to avoid mistakes and to have
garnered all relevant experience. Also who's to say there is only one
method of doing something - the GW programme on allotments showed a wide
range of practices being used and yet everyone seemed to be able to
grown the stuff they wanted. Isn't that the point?

One of the things that puts me off an allotment (although I did have one
for several years) is the thought of public scrutiny of my gardening
practices! I know that I don't grow any of my stuff to the optimum
standard - but I put in to it as much as I wish to, and get results that
please me and more than justify the effort I've put in.

Most of my learning has been practical - don't follow accepted advice,
see what happens, and you learn. Simply follow advice, and you may
produce good crops, but you don't learn anything. For some people, the
good crop is most important, for others, it's the learning that's most
important.
--
Kay

But hey, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

*ding*
--
Paul C
)
Precisely - which its why its my new allotment and not my husband's!
Three weeks in and I've had lots of advice, from the group and from
fellow allotmenteers. So far, the main on allotment advice is like
Harry Enfield's character..."you don't wanna do it like that you should
do it like this..."
which is why, I'll take a pinch of this, a pinch of that and treat the
first two years like a learning curve. And i won't forget to take a
pinch of my tomatoes when the greenhouse is finally built...
With thanks to all for the friendly advice received thus far
LW
400 miles N of anywhere warm (ish)

"Paul Corfield" wrote after "Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
I though I'd mention this to help any budding allotment growers.

Seen on our site this year...
1. Tomatoes not staked sufficiently strongly for the more exposed open
allotment site so they collapse when covered in fruit, it rains adding
weight and it's windy. Make a sturdy wooden/steel goal post type
structure
and tie the canes to that.
2. Indeterminate Tomatoes not pinched out and allowed to do their own
thing.
3. Pumpkins and other cucurbits planted too close not realising their
ability to grow.
3. Onions planted late and not weeded so they got large spring onions in
effect as they grew to the light.
4. Tender plants bought from Garden Centres and planted immediately,
much
too early. (they were very lucky we had no late frosts here) The very
end
of May beginning of June is early enough.
5. Runner Beans planted up bamboo canes that are too short and again not
strong enough to take the weight and wind without sturdier help (wood or
steel poles) so they all collapse.
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the
long
term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of
lettuce seeds in one go, so most go to waste.


I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".

Not what was intended and I can't see where you get that idea from.

There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory.

Where in my post was I condemnatory? Please explain.

It is unrealistic to
expect brand new allotment gardeners to avoid mistakes and to have
garnered all relevant experience.

Quite, that's the reason for my post, to help them learn from the disasters
of others.

Also who's to say there is only one
method of doing something - the GW programme on allotments showed a wide
range of practices being used and yet everyone seemed to be able to
grown the stuff they wanted. Isn't that the point?

The relevance to my post is unclear?

I don't have an allotment but I worked on my Dad's two allotments for a
number of years so I have a little bit of knowledge and experience
before I get "jumped on" as a "know nothing" person.

Who is doing that? Certainly not me. What exactly is your problem Paul?

--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Paul Corfield" wrote after "Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
I though I'd mention this to help any budding allotment growers.

Seen on our site this year...
1. Tomatoes not staked sufficiently strongly for the more exposed open
allotment site so they collapse when covered in fruit, it rains adding
weight and it's windy. Make a sturdy wooden/steel goal post type
structure
and tie the canes to that.
2. Indeterminate Tomatoes not pinched out and allowed to do their own
thing.
3. Pumpkins and other cucurbits planted too close not realising their
ability to grow.
3. Onions planted late and not weeded so they got large spring onions
in
effect as they grew to the light.
4. Tender plants bought from Garden Centres and planted immediately,
much
too early. (they were very lucky we had no late frosts here) The very
end
of May beginning of June is early enough.
5. Runner Beans planted up bamboo canes that are too short and again
not
strong enough to take the weight and wind without sturdier help (wood
or
steel poles) so they all collapse.
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the
long
term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of
lettuce seeds in one go, so most go to waste.


I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".

Not what was intended and I can't see where you get that idea from.

There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory.

Where in my post was I condemnatory? Please explain.

Please Bob, don't encourage the idiots who do nothing but criticise, your
article was written to help people and offered sensible advice.

Some contributors have egos which are so large they have trouble reaching
the keyboard!

Alan

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:19:58 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
wrote:


"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

[snip]
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the
long
term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of
lettuce seeds in one go, so most go to waste.


I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

Well exactly - I'm afraid I read the list as people being "told off".

Not what was intended and I can't see where you get that idea from.

There is a way to write these sorts of things which would be much more
helpful and supportive rather than condemnatory.

Where in my post was I condemnatory? Please explain.

Every one of your comments could have been turned round so that they
didn't sound as if you were telling people off.

Let's try number 6

You wrote "6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare
plot."

An alternative would be "To get rid of weeds and stop them spreading on
spare plots it's a good idea to make a compost heap on your plot early
on in your time on your new plot. The weeds will then rot down for
compost." Longer I will grant you but I think it offers more advice and
is in a more friendly tone.

However it's all academic as it is obvious that I am in a ridiculously
small minority against the long term experts on the group and there is
no point in continuing the debate. You've all decided what is right and
no criticism or comment is permitted judging from the "defence" posts
that sprang up within minutes.

Please Bob, don't encourage the idiots who do nothing but criticise, your
article was written to help people and offered sensible advice.

Oh I'm an idiot now. You know nothing about me. Are these sorts of
comments how you seek to encourage new group participants or lurkers?
Perhaps the group should be renamed uk.rec.gardening.experts.only?

Some contributors have egos which are so large they have trouble reaching
the keyboard!

And I have a large ego - hah! You know nothing about me. I passed
comment which is what I assumed was part of the purpose of a usenet
group.

This "place" really, really is incredible. I've said it before - I
thought gardeners were supposed to be nice people and gentle with it.
This place is the antithesis of that unless your face "fits". How very
wrong you can be.
--
Paul C

Steve wrote after

"Bob Hobden" wrote ...
I though I'd mention this to help any budding allotment growers.

Seen on our site this year...
1. Tomatoes not staked sufficiently strongly for the more exposed open
allotment site so they collapse when covered in fruit, it rains adding
weight and it's windy. Make a sturdy wooden/steel goal post type
structure and tie the canes to that.
2. Indeterminate Tomatoes not pinched out and allowed to do their own
thing.
3. Pumpkins and other cucurbits planted too close not realising their
ability to grow.
3. Onions planted late and not weeded so they got large spring onions in
effect as they grew to the light.
4. Tender plants bought from Garden Centres and planted immediately, much
too early. (they were very lucky we had no late frosts here) The very end
of May beginning of June is early enough.
5. Runner Beans planted up bamboo canes that are too short and again not
strong enough to take the weight and wind without sturdier help (wood or
steel poles) so they all collapse.
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the
long term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of
lettuce seeds in one go, so most go to waste.


I've done several of those, especially the first year I got the plot. I
expect you did a couple yourself, no?

But hey, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

Yep, when we first got an allotment I did the classic of planting Tomatoes
against unsupported canes and watched them all collapse in the wind , with
canes bent and broken, when fully loaded with heavy fruit. It's easy to
forget an allotment is a lot more open and therefor exposed than a back
garden.
Too many of one type of lettuce is also one we are guilty of so we now mix
lots of different types in one bag and plant from that mixture so we get a
row of mixed types, works well. All except Romain lettuce (see Seeds of
Italy) which we like a lot and plant a few rows of seperately ( a must for a
proper Cesar salad).

--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

In reply to Bob Hobden ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

I though I'd mention this to help any budding allotment growers.

Seen on our site this year...
1. Tomatoes not staked sufficiently strongly for the more exposed open
allotment site so they collapse when covered in fruit, it rains adding
weight and it's windy. Make a sturdy wooden/steel goal post type
structure and tie the canes to that.
2. Indeterminate Tomatoes not pinched out and allowed to do their own
thing. 3. Pumpkins and other cucurbits planted too close not realising
their
ability to grow.
3. Onions planted late and not weeded so they got large spring onions
in effect as they grew to the light.
4. Tender plants bought from Garden Centres and planted immediately,
much too early. (they were very lucky we had no late frosts here) The
very end of May beginning of June is early enough.
5. Runner Beans planted up bamboo canes that are too short and again
not strong enough to take the weight and wind without sturdier help
(wood or steel poles) so they all collapse.
6. No compost bin made so weeds are thrown away on a spare plot.
7. No manure used (as far as we could see) so plot will suffer in the
long term.
8. Too much of one thing planted, probably used the whole packet of
lettuce seeds in one go, so most go to waste.

Plus tomato canes miles too short for climbers, not anticipating the weather
making the plants grow to nearly six feet! They are still producing fine
tomatoes though, perhaps they like laying on the ground? Perhaps the only
reason why tomatoes are climbed up long poles is "that's the way we've
always done it".