How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen. Any
advice would be gratfuly received. many thanks in advance The
Deadlyartichoke (Stainless Steel Garden Sculptures) @
www.llamaseven.com

"the sculptor" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen. Any
advice would be gratfuly received. many thanks in advance The
Deadlyartichoke (Stainless Steel Garden Sculptures) @
www.llamaseven.com

had to go googling as I never even heard of a wine berry before :~)

Looks nice tho... found this:
http://www.blackmoor.co.uk/index.php?cPath=382

HTH Jenny

On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 the sculptor wrote:

How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen.


I've been growing Japanese Wineberry for the last forty years. Its habit
is akin to the blackberry and I propagate it in the same way by burying
growing tips in the ground. I was originally given a root by an uncle
back in 1965 when I was first married and all the plants I have now are
descended from that root, despite moving house several times. And that
uncle took a cutting from one that another uncle had back in the 1930s,
which means that it has been grown in the UK for nearly eighty years to
my knowledge.

I have found that it either likes the ground it is in, which case it
grows vigorously, or it doesn't, in which case it dies! I've tried to
get it to take in my garden in France but all attempts have failed so
far.

All that I have read on the "Rubus phoenicolasius" has not been entirely
accurate. For instance, Shewell-Cooper in his contribution to the 1960s
edition of the Reader's Digest Book of the Garden says that all fruits
on a truss ripen together. They don't. And the page that Jenny quoted
says this: "This is a climbing shrub that produces large trusses of
unbelievably sweet orange red to dark red berries of delicious flavour."
The flavour is very nondescript. I wonder if that is because it needs a
warmer climate than that in the UK. Certainly the berries look pretty
but they are not as strongly flavoured as the raspberry or the
blackberry.

By the way, Jenny, the Blackmoor Nurseries article on the Wineberry
appears to have been taken, including the photograph, from an article in
the Daily Telegraph in July, 2004:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening...S&grid=P8&xml=
/gardening/2004/07/31/ghowto31.xml

I comment on this only because the photograph looks nothing like the
Wineberry - unless it's due to lack of definition!

I made some jelly this year from wineberries. The flavour was so poor
that I had to add it to some redcurrants to make it palatable. Some
thirty years ago I tried to make wine from them (well, they *are* called
wineberries!!) but that also was very poor.

Its chief virtue is that it is very pretty. It is more decorative than
either the blackberry or the raspberry, both when it is growing and when
it is bearing fruit. Is it Japanese? I don't know. Is it used for making
wine? No. I think it's as much a misnomer as the Cor Anglais which isn't
a horn nor is it English!

So, Mr Sculptor, I'm not sure I've answered your question but I would
suggest putting plenty of organic matter down to see if that encourages
it.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

David Rance wrote:
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 the sculptor wrote:

How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen.


I've been growing Japanese Wineberry for the last forty years. Its habit
is akin to the blackberry and I propagate it in the same way by burying
growing tips in the ground. I was originally given a root by an uncle
back in 1965 when I was first married and all the plants I have now are
descended from that root, despite moving house several times. And that
uncle took a cutting from one that another uncle had back in the 1930s,
which means that it has been grown in the UK for nearly eighty years to
my knowledge.

Can't match 40 years, but I've been growing them for 15 - I grew some
from a couple of berries "pocketed" from Dundee Botanic Gardens. I fell in
love with the fruiting plant - it's beautiful and the taste is divine.

I have found that it either likes the ground it is in, which case it
grows vigorously, or it doesn't, in which case it dies! I've tried to
get it to take in my garden in France but all attempts have failed so
far.

I'd second that. It grows well with us and freely self seeds.

All that I have read on the "Rubus phoenicolasius" has not been entirely
accurate. For instance, Shewell-Cooper in his contribution to the 1960s
edition of the Reader's Digest Book of the Garden says that all fruits
on a truss ripen together. They don't.

Agreed.

And the page that Jenny quoted
says this: "This is a climbing shrub that produces large trusses of
unbelievably sweet orange red to dark red berries of delicious flavour."
The flavour is very nondescript.

NO WAY! It wonderful. One year I had enough to make wineberry jam - the
cooking looses some of the special flavour it has ripe, and tastes likes a
delicate raspberry jam.

I wonder if that is because it needs a
warmer climate than that in the UK. Certainly the berries look pretty
but they are not as strongly flavoured as the raspberry or the
blackberry.

By the way, Jenny, the Blackmoor Nurseries article on the Wineberry
appears to have been taken, including the photograph, from an article in
the Daily Telegraph in July, 2004:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening...S&grid=P8&xml=
/gardening/2004/07/31/ghowto31.xml

I comment on this only because the photograph looks nothing like the
Wineberry - unless it's due to lack of definition!

Too true, here's a photo that matches what I have, and what I suspect you
have.....

http://www.bioimages.org.uk/html/P3/P33031.php

I made some jelly this year from wineberries. The flavour was so poor
that I had to add it to some redcurrants to make it palatable. Some
thirty years ago I tried to make wine from them (well, they *are* called
wineberries!!) but that also was very poor.

Maybe they are variable and you have a relatively poor tasting one (or
you have different taste buds :-) I have 5 seedlings and they seem pretty
uniform.

Its chief virtue is that it is very pretty. It is more decorative than
either the blackberry or the raspberry, both when it is growing and when
it is bearing fruit. Is it Japanese? I don't know. Is it used for making
wine? No. I think it's as much a misnomer as the Cor Anglais which isn't
a horn nor is it English!

So, Mr Sculptor, I'm not sure I've answered your question but I would
suggest putting plenty of organic matter down to see if that encourages
it.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

Hmmmm thanks for that Jenny but my berries dont look anything like
that, they are more like a blackberry but very red.......wonder what I
have got then, lol

JennyC wrote:

"the sculptor" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen. Any
advice would be gratfuly received. many thanks in advance The
Deadlyartichoke (Stainless Steel Garden Sculptures) @
www.llamaseven.com

had to go googling as I never even heard of a wine berry before :~)

Looks nice tho... found this:
http://www.blackmoor.co.uk/index.php?cPath=382

HTH Jenny

thanks for that David I will try moving it and you have certainly
answered one question for me... I was baffled by the pic on Jenny's
google search so I am glad you mentioned it. It must be a wine berry
after all that I have got. Many thanks


David Rance wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 the sculptor wrote:

How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen.


I've been growing Japanese Wineberry for the last forty years. Its habit
is akin to the blackberry and I propagate it in the same way by burying
growing tips in the ground. I was originally given a root by an uncle
back in 1965 when I was first married and all the plants I have now are
descended from that root, despite moving house several times. And that
uncle took a cutting from one that another uncle had back in the 1930s,
which means that it has been grown in the UK for nearly eighty years to
my knowledge.

I have found that it either likes the ground it is in, which case it
grows vigorously, or it doesn't, in which case it dies! I've tried to
get it to take in my garden in France but all attempts have failed so
far.

All that I have read on the "Rubus phoenicolasius" has not been entirely
accurate. For instance, Shewell-Cooper in his contribution to the 1960s
edition of the Reader's Digest Book of the Garden says that all fruits
on a truss ripen together. They don't. And the page that Jenny quoted
says this: "This is a climbing shrub that produces large trusses of
unbelievably sweet orange red to dark red berries of delicious flavour."
The flavour is very nondescript. I wonder if that is because it needs a
warmer climate than that in the UK. Certainly the berries look pretty
but they are not as strongly flavoured as the raspberry or the
blackberry.

By the way, Jenny, the Blackmoor Nurseries article on the Wineberry
appears to have been taken, including the photograph, from an article in
the Daily Telegraph in July, 2004:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening...S&grid=P8&xml=
/gardening/2004/07/31/ghowto31.xml

I comment on this only because the photograph looks nothing like the
Wineberry - unless it's due to lack of definition!

I made some jelly this year from wineberries. The flavour was so poor
that I had to add it to some redcurrants to make it palatable. Some
thirty years ago I tried to make wine from them (well, they *are* called
wineberries!!) but that also was very poor.

Its chief virtue is that it is very pretty. It is more decorative than
either the blackberry or the raspberry, both when it is growing and when
it is bearing fruit. Is it Japanese? I don't know. Is it used for making
wine? No. I think it's as much a misnomer as the Cor Anglais which isn't
a horn nor is it English!

So, Mr Sculptor, I'm not sure I've answered your question but I would
suggest putting plenty of organic matter down to see if that encourages
it.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

Hmmm it dosen't look much like that either but then I have only had 5
berries so not much to go by.

thanks everyone from the deadlyartichoke stainless steel garden
sculptures @

www.llamaseven.com


Jim Jackson wrote:

David Rance wrote:
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 the sculptor wrote:

How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen.


I've been growing Japanese Wineberry for the last forty years. Its habit
is akin to the blackberry and I propagate it in the same way by burying
growing tips in the ground. I was originally given a root by an uncle
back in 1965 when I was first married and all the plants I have now are
descended from that root, despite moving house several times. And that
uncle took a cutting from one that another uncle had back in the 1930s,
which means that it has been grown in the UK for nearly eighty years to
my knowledge.

Can't match 40 years, but I've been growing them for 15 - I grew some
from a couple of berries "pocketed" from Dundee Botanic Gardens. I fell in
love with the fruiting plant - it's beautiful and the taste is divine.

I have found that it either likes the ground it is in, which case it
grows vigorously, or it doesn't, in which case it dies! I've tried to
get it to take in my garden in France but all attempts have failed so
far.

I'd second that. It grows well with us and freely self seeds.

All that I have read on the "Rubus phoenicolasius" has not been entirely
accurate. For instance, Shewell-Cooper in his contribution to the 1960s
edition of the Reader's Digest Book of the Garden says that all fruits
on a truss ripen together. They don't.

Agreed.

And the page that Jenny quoted
says this: "This is a climbing shrub that produces large trusses of
unbelievably sweet orange red to dark red berries of delicious flavour."
The flavour is very nondescript.

NO WAY! It wonderful. One year I had enough to make wineberry jam - the
cooking looses some of the special flavour it has ripe, and tastes likes a
delicate raspberry jam.

I wonder if that is because it needs a
warmer climate than that in the UK. Certainly the berries look pretty
but they are not as strongly flavoured as the raspberry or the
blackberry.

By the way, Jenny, the Blackmoor Nurseries article on the Wineberry
appears to have been taken, including the photograph, from an article in
the Daily Telegraph in July, 2004:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening...S&grid=P8&xml=
/gardening/2004/07/31/ghowto31.xml

I comment on this only because the photograph looks nothing like the
Wineberry - unless it's due to lack of definition!

Too true, here's a photo that matches what I have, and what I suspect you
have.....

http://www.bioimages.org.uk/html/P3/P33031.php

I made some jelly this year from wineberries. The flavour was so poor
that I had to add it to some redcurrants to make it palatable. Some
thirty years ago I tried to make wine from them (well, they *are* called
wineberries!!) but that also was very poor.

Maybe they are variable and you have a relatively poor tasting one (or
you have different taste buds :-) I have 5 seedlings and they seem pretty
uniform.

Its chief virtue is that it is very pretty. It is more decorative than
either the blackberry or the raspberry, both when it is growing and when
it is bearing fruit. Is it Japanese? I don't know. Is it used for making
wine? No. I think it's as much a misnomer as the Cor Anglais which isn't
a horn nor is it English!

So, Mr Sculptor, I'm not sure I've answered your question but I would
suggest putting plenty of organic matter down to see if that encourages
it.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

the sculptor writes

Hmmmm thanks for that Jenny but my berries dont look anything like
that, they are more like a blackberry but very red.......wonder what I
have got then, lol

Tayberry, Sunberry, loganberry ....

One characteristic of wineberry is that the inside of the calyces are
bright orange, so once you have picked the red fruit, you have this
decorative orange star.

Actually, that picture on the site jenny found is rubbish - looks more
like a redcurrant! (The description is OK)

Try this one:

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/ruph1.htm

JennyC wrote:

"the sculptor" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen. Any
advice would be gratfuly received. many thanks in advance The
Deadlyartichoke (Stainless Steel Garden Sculptures) @
www.llamaseven.com

had to go googling as I never even heard of a wine berry before :~)

Looks nice tho... found this:
http://www.blackmoor.co.uk/index.php?cPath=382

HTH Jenny


--
Kay

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 K wrote:

Actually, that picture on the site jenny found is rubbish - looks more
like a redcurrant! (The description is OK)

Try this one:

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/ruph1.htm

That's more like it, Kay. That's exactly how mine looks.

In fact that's one of the best summaries I've seen on that plant. It
does seem as though it is as rampant in the US as the blackberry is here
in the UK - and I say that with some feeling!

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

yep thats the one I have, thnaks for that.

K wrote:
the sculptor writes

Hmmmm thanks for that Jenny but my berries dont look anything like
that, they are more like a blackberry but very red.......wonder what I
have got then, lol

Tayberry, Sunberry, loganberry ....

One characteristic of wineberry is that the inside of the calyces are
bright orange, so once you have picked the red fruit, you have this
decorative orange star.

Actually, that picture on the site jenny found is rubbish - looks more
like a redcurrant! (The description is OK)

Try this one:

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/ruph1.htm

JennyC wrote:

"the sculptor" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen. Any
advice would be gratfuly received. many thanks in advance The
Deadlyartichoke (Stainless Steel Garden Sculptures) @
www.llamaseven.com

had to go googling as I never even heard of a wine berry before :~)

Looks nice tho... found this:
http://www.blackmoor.co.uk/index.php?cPath=382

HTH Jenny


--
Kay

yep thats the one I have, thnaks for that.

K wrote:
the sculptor writes

Hmmmm thanks for that Jenny but my berries dont look anything like
that, they are more like a blackberry but very red.......wonder what I
have got then, lol

Tayberry, Sunberry, loganberry ....

One characteristic of wineberry is that the inside of the calyces are
bright orange, so once you have picked the red fruit, you have this
decorative orange star.

Actually, that picture on the site jenny found is rubbish - looks more
like a redcurrant! (The description is OK)

Try this one:

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/ruph1.htm

JennyC wrote:

"the sculptor" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen. Any
advice would be gratfuly received. many thanks in advance The
Deadlyartichoke (Stainless Steel Garden Sculptures) @
www.llamaseven.com

had to go googling as I never even heard of a wine berry before :~)

Looks nice tho... found this:
http://www.blackmoor.co.uk/index.php?cPath=382

HTH Jenny


--
Kay

On 4 Nov 2006 13:26:40 -0800, "the sculptor"
wrote:

Hmmmm thanks for that Jenny but my berries dont look anything like
that, they are more like a blackberry but very red.......wonder what I
have got then, lol

What I have, which I acquired as Japanese Wineberry, fits the
description in Jenny's linked article but the picture there seems very
strange. Mine also is like an orange-coloured blackberry. Mine has
been in 4 years and not done much, but then I have rather neglected
it! I think I need to give it a bit more TLC, and some WRM, and see
what it does next year.
Don't give up. I have seen huge clumps of it, going rather rampant,
and I haven't got room for that!


Pam in Bristol

"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On 4 Nov 2006 13:26:40 -0800, "the sculptor"
wrote:

Hmmmm thanks for that Jenny but my berries dont look anything like
that, they are more like a blackberry but very red.......wonder what I
have got then, lol

What I have, which I acquired as Japanese Wineberry, fits the
description in Jenny's linked article but the picture there seems very
strange. Mine also is like an orange-coloured blackberry. Mine has
been in 4 years and not done much, but then I have rather neglected
it! I think I need to give it a bit more TLC, and some WRM, and see
what it does next year.
Don't give up. I have seen huge clumps of it, going rather rampant,
and I haven't got room for that!
Pam in Bristol

I feel I need to apologise for posting a site with a weird photo of the
plant!!
But I did say I'd never seen one, so hope to be excused :~)))
Jenny

No apology necessary as far as I am concerned Jenny....at least it got
us all talking and comparing our plants, anyway it wasn't your fault
the pic might be wrong.......can I ask are you the same Jenny who was
interested in one of my feeders please?

deadlyartichoke (stainless steel sculptures) @ www.llamaseven.com


JennyC wrote:

"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On 4 Nov 2006 13:26:40 -0800, "the sculptor"
wrote:

Hmmmm thanks for that Jenny but my berries dont look anything like
that, they are more like a blackberry but very red.......wonder what I
have got then, lol

What I have, which I acquired as Japanese Wineberry, fits the
description in Jenny's linked article but the picture there seems very
strange. Mine also is like an orange-coloured blackberry. Mine has
been in 4 years and not done much, but then I have rather neglected
it! I think I need to give it a bit more TLC, and some WRM, and see
what it does next year.
Don't give up. I have seen huge clumps of it, going rather rampant,
and I haven't got room for that!
Pam in Bristol

I feel I need to apologise for posting a site with a weird photo of the
plant!!
But I did say I'd never seen one, so hope to be excused :~)))
Jenny

Can anyone out there tell me why I keep posing messages twice please, i
am new to all this if you havent gathered that already and have no idea
what I am doing wrong.....I apologise in advance if it has cheesed
anyone off....

the sculptor wrote:

How can I get my wine berry to grow rampantly..... I have had it
planted now for two years and only had five fruits from it and it looks
sick as a dog in comparison to other wine berries I have seen. Any
advice would be gratfuly received. many thanks in advance The
Deadlyartichoke (Stainless Steel Garden Sculptures) @
www.llamaseven.com