On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:29:32 +0000, K wrote:
Jim Paterson writes
Leaves should be kept separate to be used as leafmould when ready. ( They
rot down by fungal action as opposed to the composting process which uses
bacterial action) Having said that, a FEW leaves won't hurt. hth

I've never really understood this. Why should tree leaves rot down any
differently from grass leaves or weed leaves or cabbage leaves?

Or is it that leaves in quantity settle into a soggy mass that isn't
aerated enough for the bacterial action?

I use large quantities of tree leaves (mostly beech) mixed with grass
mowings in my heaps and they rot down fine. As others have said, I
think it is the carbon/nitrogen thing. ( like with woodshavings or to
lesser extent shredded woody prunings)
The rest of the tree leaves go into the leafmold heaps which do take
longer unless supplemented with "household liquid activator".

Variously they did write :
Hi there, can anyone give me ideas for what I can and cannot
compost? I am not putting in meat or fish (Barring prawn shells
and bits of skin). I try to layer with grass clippings and some
cardboard. There are worms and the whole thing seems to be
settling well. I'm having difficulty filling it up!

Are there any definate 'No-No's' or should I soldier on as I am?
Are there things I should definately be adding?

Thank you.

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/orga...compost_pf.php

rob

Good basic info there, but it suggests that newspaper is best avoided
in compost... why? I use quite a bit of newspaper to dry up my
compost, as well as shredded paper - whatever doesn't go to the
recycling bin goes into the compost, and that works quite well for
me. So. why would an organic website advise against newspaper in
compost heaps?

Cat(h)

I think the theory is that the newsprint is made of chemicals which
may be nasty.

Having looked into this I can vouch that it's an urban myth, it's widely
used as pet bedding, namely for small rodents without any ill effects.

I totally agree but the organic crowd do not like it.

I have not researched this in depth personally but I think (have been
told when I was a member of HDRA) there was a time when coloured inks
used (heavy) metals (eg. chromium) but now use organic* dyes instead
so are ok in the compost heap.

* organic in the carbon-based sense, not as in the
back-to-nature/natural sense.

"WaltA" wrote in message
...
Variously they did write :
Hi there, can anyone give me ideas for what I can and cannot
compost? I am not putting in meat or fish (Barring prawn shells
and bits of skin). I try to layer with grass clippings and some
cardboard. There are worms and the whole thing seems to be
settling well. I'm having difficulty filling it up!

Are there any definate 'No-No's' or should I soldier on as I am?
Are there things I should definately be adding?

Thank you.

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/orga...compost_pf.php

rob

Good basic info there, but it suggests that newspaper is best avoided
in compost... why? I use quite a bit of newspaper to dry up my
compost, as well as shredded paper - whatever doesn't go to the
recycling bin goes into the compost, and that works quite well for
me. So. why would an organic website advise against newspaper in
compost heaps?

Cat(h)

I think the theory is that the newsprint is made of chemicals which
may be nasty.

Having looked into this I can vouch that it's an urban myth, it's widely
used as pet bedding, namely for small rodents without any ill effects.

I totally agree but the organic crowd do not like it.

I have not researched this in depth personally but I think (have been
told when I was a member of HDRA) there was a time when coloured inks
used (heavy) metals (eg. chromium) but now use organic* dyes instead
so are ok in the compost heap.

* organic in the carbon-based sense, not as in the
back-to-nature/natural sense.


That's certainly true and applied particularly to inks/paints from some Far
Eastern places until about 15 years ago.
Just had a look at the constituents of modern inks and they are frightening
too.

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:03:44 -0000, Rupert & I wrote:
but now use organic* dyes instead
so are ok in the compost heap.
* organic in the carbon-based sense, not as in the
back-to-nature/natural sense.

Just had a look at the constituents of modern inks and they are frightening
too.

Because ,, ?

As constituents of ink ? Or because they will leave nasties after
composting ??

"WaltA" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:03:44 -0000, Rupert & I wrote:
but now use organic* dyes instead
so are ok in the compost heap.
* organic in the carbon-based sense, not as in the
back-to-nature/natural sense.

Just had a look at the constituents of modern inks and they are
frightening
too.

Because ,, ?

As constituents of ink ? Or because they will leave nasties after
composting ??

Because they are complex organics of which the chemical and physiological
properties are not well understood.
I had a distant recollection of a food scare relating to ink on packaging
that had migrated to the food.
Isopropylthioxanthone (ITX) was the substance in question;-
In its original statement on ITX on 24 November, EFSA said: "On the basis of
the very limited data available today, the presence of ITX in food could be
considered "undesirable" but it is not likely to present a health risk at
the
levels reported."
Print inks are not an area of my expertise,but looking at the formulae of
these things I would not wish to eat them:-)

I doubt that the decomposition products formed through composting are well
understood.

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Jim Paterson writes

Leaves should be kept separate to be used as leafmould when ready. ( They
rot down by fungal action as opposed to the composting process which uses
bacterial action) Having said that, a FEW leaves won't hurt. hth

I've never really understood this. Why should tree leaves rot down any
differently from grass leaves or weed leaves or cabbage leaves?

Or is it that leaves in quantity settle into a soggy mass that isn't
aerated enough for the bacterial action?
--

My unscientific explanation is that green tree leaves compost fine but once
they are dry and dead bacterial composting is slow because the leaves are
woody.

Woody???
Or do you mean, in effect, that a lot of the soft wet matter has
disappeared and you're left with basically the cell walls?

Wood does not tend to be subject to bacterial decay (thankfully) and
decays by fungal action.
The exception to this are the wet soggy leaves of common maples which seem
to vanish in a traditional heap.
Come on someone give a proper scientific explanation.



--
Kay

Charlie Pridham writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Rachel Aitch writes

Any meat or fish scraps - you already know about that one,

Allegedly because it will attract rats, but other things I've read
suggest rats are more attracted by grain. Also, fats don't break down
well.


Until I upgraded the base and edges it was the worms the rats targeted in
mine! I now have a ring of slates driven into the ground around them and
worm populations are back to normal.

Hmm. Worms are meat.
--
Kay

Farm1 writes

I hate the side by side bins and have now abandoned them and use them
just to collect stuff to be composted. I hate 'em because they take
too much work. Build it, then turn it and keep turning it is for the
muscularly inclined (which isn't a woman recovering from cancer [or
anyone over the age of 40 with any sense :-)]).

I have the side by side and find they work fine without turning. I fill
two of them, then when I need compost, I take stuff off one of the heaps
and put it into the third empty one until I get down to usable compost.
When I've used that compost, I fill the base with stuff of the older of
the other two till I reach usable compost, and so on. That's the only
turning the stuff gets. Basically, I work with big bins (4ft x 4ft
x4ft?) and a slow cycle - 6 months to 1 year between filling and using.


--
Kay

In article , MikeCT
writes

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" replied:

I think the theory is that the newsprint is made of chemicals which may be
nasty. ---
As a staff member on a daily newspaper for most of my working life, I came
into close ( very close and messy at times) contact with printing ink every
day. The ink didn't appear to harm me inwardly, but might well have had a
lot to do with me becoming folically challenged by the time I was 55.

MikeCT






Being a printer also, I can tell you that most modern inks are much
better now. Health and safety etc.
Though that's the reason why blanket washes and roller cleaners don't
work as well!

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

"K" wrote in message
...
"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Jim Paterson writes

Leaves should be kept separate to be used as leafmould when ready. (
They
rot down by fungal action as opposed to the composting process which
uses
bacterial action) Having said that, a FEW leaves won't hurt. hth

I've never really understood this. Why should tree leaves rot down any
differently from grass leaves or weed leaves or cabbage leaves?

Or is it that leaves in quantity settle into a soggy mass that isn't
aerated enough for the bacterial action?
--

My unscientific explanation is that green tree leaves compost fine but
once
they are dry and dead bacterial composting is slow because the leaves are
woody.

Woody???
Or do you mean, in effect, that a lot of the soft wet matter has
disappeared and you're left with basically the cell walls?


Woody as in wood:-) the dried leaves are akin to wood in that they are
predominantley high carbon (ish). We must be somewhere near the truth as
green leaves seem to compost fine.
Wood does not tend to be subject to bacterial decay (thankfully) and
decays by fungal action.
The exception to this are the wet soggy leaves of common maples which seem
to vanish in a traditional heap.
Come on someone give a proper scientific explanation.



--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Farm1 writes

I hate the side by side bins and have now abandoned them and use them
just to collect stuff to be composted. I hate 'em because they take
too much work. Build it, then turn it and keep turning it is for the
muscularly inclined (which isn't a woman recovering from cancer [or
anyone over the age of 40 with any sense :-)]).

I have the side by side and find they work fine without turning. I fill
two of them, then when I need compost, I take stuff off one of the heaps
and put it into the third empty one until I get down to usable compost.
When I've used that compost, I fill the base with stuff of the older of
the other two till I reach usable compost, and so on. That's the only
turning the stuff gets. Basically, I work with big bins (4ft x 4ft x4ft?)
and a slow cycle - 6 months to 1 year between filling and using.


--
Kay

6-12 months is about what I achieve per cycle, sometimes even as quick as 3
months mid summer. I get very tempted by the adverts for the rotating
tumbler thingies which claim to make useable compost in a few weeks.
Anyone had any joy with these contraptions or are they more suited to
tropical climates?

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote
6-12 months is about what I achieve per cycle, sometimes even as quick
as 3 months mid summer. I get very tempted by the adverts for the
rotating tumbler thingies which claim to make useable compost in a few
weeks. Anyone had any joy with these contraptions or are they more
suited to tropical climates?

I think the main problem with those is probably capacity. Can see it
speeding things up for smallish amounts because if I summon up the
energy to remix a binful now and then it does compost down faster. But
if I could have a tumbler one big enough to cope with the amount of
stuff I seem to accumulate in my wooden bins I'd never be able to turn
the darn thing!

--
Sue

Charlie Pridham wrote:
"K" wrote in message
...
Rachel Aitch writes

Any meat or fish scraps - you already know about that one,

Allegedly because it will attract rats, but other things I've read
suggest rats are more attracted by grain. Also, fats don't break down
well.

--
Kay

Until I upgraded the base and edges it was the worms the rats targeted in
mine! I now have a ring of slates driven into the ground around them and
worm populations are back to normal.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea


Hi

There are a few dos and don't for composting- simple enough
though:-)... see my link below gives a summary table of what you can
and can't compost

Happy composting!!!

Barbara

http://www.all-about-tomatoes.com/un...materials.html

Alan Holmes wrote:

"Jim Paterson" wrote in message
...

"Rachel Aitch" wrote in message
...

Tulpa Wrote:
Hi there, can anyone give me ideas for what I can and cannot compost? I
am not putting in meat or fish (Barring prawn shells and bits of
skin).
I try to layer with grass clippings and some cardboard. There are
worms
and the whole thing seems to be settling well. I'm having difficulty
filling it up!

Are there any definate 'No-No's' or should I soldier on as I am? Are
there things I should definately be adding?

Thank you.
From my experience the 'dalek' style of bins are pretty naff as they do
not heat up enough. With them it is the worms that do the work and so it
takes longer.
The best system imho is 2-3 purpose built 'Bins' either wood or breeze
block constuction. My bins are joined together and each compartment is
approx. 4' square. When bin #1 is full fork it into bin #2 then bin #3 and
keep the rotation going. Do it right and you will burn your hand if you
stick it into the heap. That heat is the bacterial action and should be
hot enough to kill any disease and weed seeds. If the weather is
particularly wet I cover with an old piece of carpet.
A compost heap needs water and air and if you add a little topsoil that
will introduce the soil bacteria necessary to turn it into usable compost.
Do NOT add fallen leaves in quantity as they rot down using a different
process and will only retard your heap.
Leaves should be kept separate to be used as leafmould when ready. ( They
rot down by fungal action as opposed to the composting process which uses
bacterial action) Having said that, a FEW leaves won't hurt. hth

You forgot to mention the natural compost feeder which is part of mens
natural outgoings!

Alan

Jim

Thank you! I take it then, a trip to the bottom of the garden
following my weekly pub quiz would be a good idea? ;-)