"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"BoyPete" wrote ...
I've lurked for ages, just posting occasionally. I do hope my pond
orientated posts don't annoy. My garden is about 20ft square, nearly half
is pond now. Most people here seem to be 'real' gardeners, something I'd
love to be if I had the room! I dream of retiring to a large old house
with half an acre..........yeah.....dream on. In the past, I've grown
carrots, Swede, peas, runner beans, lettuce etc, but until recently,
especially sweet corn......great picked and straight on the BBQ Now, I
only have pots Something which bugs me, is the use of the Latin names
for plants. I realise that if you are really into gardening, these things
are important, but to the likes of me........an interested wannabe, they
are meaningless. It would be nice if folk could call plants by their
'common' name perhaps with the Latin in brackets? What do you think?
Thanks for a great friendly group.

Well there are two views about Latin names, yours is one and I realise it
can put a lot of people off, but the main advantage of them is everyone in
the world then knows exactly what plant you are talking about because the
Latin name is universal. For example, a Geranium sp, however if you talk
in common names and say Geranium we wouldn't know if you meant a true
hardy (mostly) Geranium or those tender Zonal Pelargonium often sold as
Geraniums and used for summer bedding. A similar situation pertains with
Datura and Brugmansia and it goes on.
Perhaps those of us with a bit of knowledge about Latin names should try
to use both.
I'll try and remember. Promise. :-)

Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

But if there are please do not confuse me!

Alan



--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

Alan Holmes wrote:

Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

Brassica oleracea 'gemmifera', Pisum sativum, Brassica oleracea,
Daucum carota, Fragaria x ananasa, Phaseolus coccinea, Zea mays.

But if there are please do not confuse me!

Oh sorry Alan, I do apologise. It sort of slipped out ... a bit like
Rupert's Amorphophallus :-o

On Feb 25, 5:39 am, "Dave Poole" wrote:
Alan Holmes wrote:
Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

Brassica oleracea 'gemmifera', Pisum sativum, Brassica oleracea,
Daucum carota, Fragaria x ananasa, Phaseolus coccinea, Zea mays.

Now that was educational. I saw Pisum sativum, thought "surely peas
can't be a type of garlic!" and googled. I now know that sativa means
sown or cultivated.

How shaky would my ground be if I were to assume that, as a general
rule, the first word of the latin name IDs the plant and the second is
sort of extra information, style of thing?
--
Rob

In message . com, Rob
Hamadi writes
On Feb 25, 5:39 am, "Dave Poole" wrote:
Alan Holmes wrote:
Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

Brassica oleracea 'gemmifera', Pisum sativum, Brassica oleracea,
Daucum carota, Fragaria x ananasa, Phaseolus coccinea, Zea mays.

Now that was educational. I saw Pisum sativum, thought "surely peas
can't be a type of garlic!" and googled. I now know that sativa means
sown or cultivated.

How shaky would my ground be if I were to assume that, as a general
rule, the first word of the latin name IDs the plant and the second is
sort of extra information, style of thing?
--
Rob

Depends on what you mean by "the plant". The first word is the genus
which identifies a group of related plants, and the second word is the
specific epithet, which identifies the species, which is probably what a
botanist would identify as the plant.

After that it all gets more complicated - species can be divided into
subspecies, varieties (e.g. Malva moschata var. heterophylla, which is a
variety of musk mallow with less divided leaves), forms (e.g. Malva
moschata f. alba, which is the white-flowered form) and even subforms,
and there are also cultivars - cultivated varieties - of several
different categories, and also selling names. For example Lavatera olbia
'Eyecatcher' is a cultivar of Lavatera olbia, and Lavatera x clementii
Chamallow is a selling name of the cultivar Lavatera x clementii
'Innovera'. Cultivars can be arranged in groups, e.g. Malva sylvestris
Sterile Blue Group, consisting of the sterile (are they all?)
blue-flowered forms of the common mallow.

There are hybrids between subspecies, species and even genera giving
rise to nothogenera (e.g. x Sorbopyrus, which is a hybrids between a
Sorbus - I forget whether it was whitebeam or a rowan - and a pear),
nothospecies (e.g. Lavatera x clementii, the common shrubby Lavatera of
gardens, which is a hybrid between the shrubby Lavatera olbia and the
herbaceous Lavatera thuringiaca) and nothosubspecies. Nomenclature-wise,
when you get to rhododendrons and orchids you also have grexes, which
include all hybrids of a particular parentage.

In the case of large - or even not so large - genera, genera are divided
into subgenera, sections, subsections, series and subseries. For example
the common mallow, and several weedy species belong to section Malva of
genus Malva, and the musk mallow, Malva moschata, the hollyhock mallow,
Malva alcea, and their hybrid Malva x intermedia, belong to section
Bismalva. Subgenera etc are not usually represented in the name of a
plant.

Above the genus plants are grouped into larger categories (all of these,
including the ones described above, are collectively known as taxa -
singular taxon). The required ranks are family, order, class [1] and
division (or phylum), but botanists can also use subtribe, tribe,
subfamily, suborder, subclass and subdivision if they want. (Zoologists
have even more choices.) Informal groups of genera - groups or alliance
- fill the gap between genus and subtribe in some groups.

[1] The recent classifications from the Angiosperm Phylogeny Group don't
use the rank of class, but define a number of informal supraordinal
taxa.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On Feb 25, 9:55 am, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message . com, Rob
Hamadi writes

How shaky would my ground be if I were to assume that, as a general
rule, the first word of the latin name IDs the plant and the second is
sort of extra information, style of thing?

Depends on what you mean by "the plant". The first word is the genus
which identifies a group of related plants, and the second word is the
specific epithet, which identifies the species, which is probably what a
botanist would identify as the plant.

I get you, as in (IIRC) cherries being Prunus whatever and apples
being a type of rose and so forth.

After that it all gets more complicated -

-snip complicated stuff-

You'll get no argument from me there... ;-)

--
Rob

In message . com, Rob
Hamadi writes
On Feb 25, 9:55 am, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message . com, Rob
Hamadi writes

How shaky would my ground be if I were to assume that, as a general
rule, the first word of the latin name IDs the plant and the second is
sort of extra information, style of thing?

Depends on what you mean by "the plant". The first word is the genus
which identifies a group of related plants, and the second word is the
specific epithet, which identifies the species, which is probably what a
botanist would identify as the plant.

I get you, as in (IIRC) cherries being Prunus whatever and apples
being a type of rose and so forth.

Not all Prunus are cherries - Prunus also includes almonds, plums,
damsons, peaches, nectarines, apricots, bullaces, sloes, cherry laurels,
etc.

Apples (like Cherries) belong to the rose family (Rosaceae), but the
term rose is usually restricted to genus Rosa, which doesn't include
apples (which are more closely related to rowans, whitebeams, pears,
hawthorns, medlars, etc). That's when rose isn't being applied to some
even more distantly related plant, such as desert rose, rock rose, sun
rose, Confederate rose, stone rose, Rose of China, Rose of Sharon.

After that it all gets more complicated -

-snip complicated stuff-

You'll get no argument from me there... ;-)

--
Rob


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On Feb 25, 11:33 am, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message . com, Rob
Hamadi writes

I get you, as in (IIRC) cherries being Prunus whatever and apples
being a type of rose and so forth.

Not all Prunus are cherries - Prunus also includes almonds, plums,
damsons, peaches, nectarines, apricots, bullaces, sloes, cherry laurels,
etc.

I don't think I suggested that. I may not be much of a botanist/
horticulturalist, but I recognise a false syllogism when I see one.

Apples (like Cherries) belong to the rose family (Rosaceae), but the
term rose is usually restricted to genus Rosa, which doesn't include
apples (which are more closely related to rowans, whitebeams, pears,
hawthorns, medlars, etc). That's when rose isn't being applied to some
even more distantly related plant, such as desert rose, rock rose, sun
rose, Confederate rose, stone rose, Rose of China, Rose of Sharon.

So Rosaceae (the family) is distinct from Rosa (the genus)? I live and
learn. Would I be correct in saying that Rosa is a subset of Rosaceae?
--
Rob

"Dave Poole" wrote in message
oups.com...
Alan Holmes wrote:

Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

Brassica oleracea 'gemmifera', Pisum sativum, Brassica oleracea,
Daucum carota, Fragaria x ananasa, Phaseolus coccinea, Zea mays.

But if there are please do not confuse me!

Oh sorry Alan, I do apologise. It sort of slipped out ... a bit like
Rupert's Amorphophallus :-o


David please keep quiet about my Amorphophallus otherwise I might reveal
full details of your huge promiscuous banana:-)

On 25/2/07 18:15, in article , "Rupert (W.Yorkshire)"
wrote:


"Dave Poole" wrote in message
oups.com...
Alan Holmes wrote:

Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

Brassica oleracea 'gemmifera', Pisum sativum, Brassica oleracea,
Daucum carota, Fragaria x ananasa, Phaseolus coccinea, Zea mays.

But if there are please do not confuse me!

Oh sorry Alan, I do apologise. It sort of slipped out ... a bit like
Rupert's Amorphophallus :-o


David please keep quiet about my Amorphophallus otherwise I might reveal
full details of your huge promiscuous banana:-)

You should see his Ensete. It's got a label on it, too......

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Alan Holmes" wrote


Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

But if there are please do not confuse me!
Alan

I LOVE confusing people :~)
http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/veggies/latin.html
Jenny

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Alan Holmes" wrote


Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

But if there are please do not confuse me!
Alan

I LOVE confusing people :~)

Rotter!

I shall try to remember not to talk to you!(:-)

Alan


http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/veggies/latin.html
Jenny

In message , Alan Holmes
writes

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"BoyPete" wrote ...
I've lurked for ages, just posting occasionally. I do hope my pond
orientated posts don't annoy. My garden is about 20ft square, nearly half
is pond now. Most people here seem to be 'real' gardeners, something I'd
love to be if I had the room! I dream of retiring to a large old house
with half an acre..........yeah.....dream on. In the past, I've grown
carrots, Swede, peas, runner beans, lettuce etc, but until recently,
especially sweet corn......great picked and straight on the BBQ Now, I
only have pots Something which bugs me, is the use of the Latin names
for plants. I realise that if you are really into gardening, these things
are important, but to the likes of me........an interested wannabe, they
are meaningless. It would be nice if folk could call plants by their
'common' name perhaps with the Latin in brackets? What do you think?
Thanks for a great friendly group.

Well there are two views about Latin names, yours is one and I realise it
can put a lot of people off, but the main advantage of them is everyone in
the world then knows exactly what plant you are talking about because the
Latin name is universal. For example, a Geranium sp, however if you talk
in common names and say Geranium we wouldn't know if you meant a true
hardy (mostly) Geranium or those tender Zonal Pelargonium often sold as
Geraniums and used for summer bedding. A similar situation pertains with
Datura and Brugmansia and it goes on.
Perhaps those of us with a bit of knowledge about Latin names should try
to use both.
I'll try and remember. Promise. :-)

Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

Yes.

But if there are please do not confuse me!

OK.

Alan

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley