In article ,
"Muddymike" wrote:

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Chris Potts
writes
Muddymike wrote:
Inspired by the wonderful comments on my garden pictures I have uploaded
a few more. Some showing the overgrown mess we took on two and a half
years ago.
Further to the Ivy Broomrape, I have discovered a virtual forest of the
stuff, see first picture at
http://www.twango.com/channel/Muddymike.Garden
Must mow the lawns.
Mike
Hello Mike

I don't think it is Ivy Broomrape! It is Common Toothwort (Lathraea
squamaria). Ivy Broomrape is taller with a much more open spike; it
flowers in late June/July. There is a good picture of Toothwort at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothwort. It flowers in April, so just
right.

All the best,

Chris Potts

I hadn't considered Lathraea, as the plant didn't look at all like
lLathraea clandestina. However, Lathraea squamata is typically parasitic
on elm and hazel, rather than ivy. However it seems to occur on many
genera.

According to Stace, the key characters separating Lathraea and Orobanche
are

Lathraea: rhizomatous; flowers pedicellate (stalked); calyx with 4 equal
lobes;

Orobanche: not rhizomatous; flowers seesile (unstalked) except rarely near
the base of the inflorescence; calyx with 2-4(5) teeth arranged in 2
lateral lips.

Looking at the original photograph the calyx characters may be correct for
Lathraea. If Mike could check the details, and what plants other than ivy
are growing in the vicinity ...
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Its quite crowded in there, plants include hazel certainly, laurel, yew,
privet, holly, and more that I am unable to name are also in quite close
proximity.

Mike


Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape. At this time of year there are no
signs of the flower spikes on my colonies. They come in August or so.
Does your presumed Lathrea Squamata set seed? If so I wouldn't mind
some - which I could swap for an option on my Orobanche hederae harvest
in September.

john

On 24 Apr, 11:29, John McMillan
wrote:
Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape.

On the other thread, the original one Muddymike sent, I had marked it
as Orobanche crenata - don't you think? At all? So similar, same
flowers, height etc. But not the hederae.

"La Puce" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 24 Apr, 11:29, John McMillan
wrote:
Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape.

On the other thread, the original one Muddymike sent, I had marked it
as Orobanche crenata - don't you think? At all? So similar, same
flowers, height etc. But not the hederae.


It is Lathraea squamaria or common toothwort.
I know this because I have seen it and it looks exactly like that plant and
is widespread in the wild and I know it grows in Ireland and the UK and
paristises trees and comes into flower at this time of year.
O.crenata is pink but that is just going on photographs in google and that
is the only resemblance. Does it even grow in the UK or flower at this time
of year? It is normally a parasite of legumes in the med.

In message , Des Higgins
writes

"La Puce" wrote in message
roups.com...
On 24 Apr, 11:29, John McMillan
wrote:
Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape.

On the other thread, the original one Muddymike sent, I had marked it
as Orobanche crenata - don't you think? At all? So similar, same
flowers, height etc. But not the hederae.


It is Lathraea squamaria or common toothwort.
I know this because I have seen it and it looks exactly like that plant and
is widespread in the wild and I know it grows in Ireland and the UK and
paristises trees and comes into flower at this time of year.
O.crenata is pink but that is just going on photographs in google and that
is the only resemblance. Does it even grow in the UK or flower at this time
of year? It is normally a parasite of legumes in the med.

Stace says that Orobanche crenata was "naturalised and casual in 1 part
of S. Essex since 1950, perhaps now extinct".
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 24/4/07 13:10, in article ,
"Des Higgins" wrote:


"La Puce" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 24 Apr, 11:29, John McMillan
wrote:
Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape.

On the other thread, the original one Muddymike sent, I had marked it
as Orobanche crenata - don't you think? At all? So similar, same
flowers, height etc. But not the hederae.


It is Lathraea squamaria or common toothwort.
I know this because I have seen it and it looks exactly like that plant and
is widespread in the wild and I know it grows in Ireland and the UK and
paristises trees and comes into flower at this time of year.
O.crenata is pink but that is just going on photographs in google and that
is the only resemblance. Does it even grow in the UK or flower at this time
of year? It is normally a parasite of legumes in the med.

According to the post code plant database, the following Orobanches grow in
Britain. O. crenata is not among them. Lathraea squamaria is.
Orobanche alba
Orobanche artemisiae-campestris
Orobanche caryophyllacea
Orobanche elatior
Orobanche hederae
Orobanche minor
Orobanche purpurea
Orobanche rapum-genistae
Orobanche reticulata
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/fff/checklist-english-plants.html

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...


Orobanche rapum-genistae

This one presumably grows on Broom and mirrors the common english name of
Broomrape (I know nothing about the plant; I am just guessing from the
name).

Des

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Des Higgins
writes

"La Puce" wrote in message
groups.com...
On 24 Apr, 11:29, John McMillan
wrote:
Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape.

On the other thread, the original one Muddymike sent, I had marked it
as Orobanche crenata - don't you think? At all? So similar, same
flowers, height etc. But not the hederae.


It is Lathraea squamaria or common toothwort.
I know this because I have seen it and it looks exactly like that plant
and
is widespread in the wild and I know it grows in Ireland and the UK and
paristises trees and comes into flower at this time of year.
O.crenata is pink but that is just going on photographs in google and that
is the only resemblance. Does it even grow in the UK or flower at this
time
of year? It is normally a parasite of legumes in the med.

Stace says that Orobanche crenata was "naturalised and casual in 1 part of
S. Essex since 1950, perhaps now extinct".

It looks like a cool plant. Googling around says it is quite a weed and
even a source of ecomic loss in legume crops in its normal range.
In this part of the world, Orobanches seem to be a bit rare; maybe they are
at the edge of their range and it is too cold for them to really do well.
I have only ever seem Lathraea a few times and O. hederae is the commonest
here but I tend to only see it a couple of times a year.
O.rapum-genistae (I know nothing about it but just did a quick google) looks
like a great big pink thing; hard to miss if it was groing on yer broom or
gorse.

Des


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In message , Des Higgins
writes

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...


Orobanche rapum-genistae

This one presumably grows on Broom and mirrors the common english name of
Broomrape (I know nothing about the plant; I am just guessing from the
name).

Des


"various woody Fabaceae" - so perhaps it might also be found on gorse
and greenweed.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 25/4/07 11:06, in article ,
"Des Higgins" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...


Orobanche rapum-genistae

This one presumably grows on Broom and mirrors the common english name of
Broomrape (I know nothing about the plant; I am just guessing from the
name).

Des


Sounds like a safe bet, though.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"John McMillan" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Muddymike" wrote:

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Chris Potts
writes
Muddymike wrote:
Inspired by the wonderful comments on my garden pictures I have
uploaded
a few more. Some showing the overgrown mess we took on two and a
half
years ago.
Further to the Ivy Broomrape, I have discovered a virtual forest of
the
stuff, see first picture at
http://www.twango.com/channel/Muddymike.Garden
Must mow the lawns.
Mike
Hello Mike

I don't think it is Ivy Broomrape! It is Common Toothwort (Lathraea
squamaria). Ivy Broomrape is taller with a much more open spike; it
flowers in late June/July. There is a good picture of Toothwort at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothwort. It flowers in April, so just
right.

All the best,

Chris Potts

I hadn't considered Lathraea, as the plant didn't look at all like
lLathraea clandestina. However, Lathraea squamata is typically
parasitic
on elm and hazel, rather than ivy. However it seems to occur on many
genera.

According to Stace, the key characters separating Lathraea and
Orobanche
are

Lathraea: rhizomatous; flowers pedicellate (stalked); calyx with 4
equal
lobes;

Orobanche: not rhizomatous; flowers seesile (unstalked) except rarely
near
the base of the inflorescence; calyx with 2-4(5) teeth arranged in 2
lateral lips.

Looking at the original photograph the calyx characters may be correct
for
Lathraea. If Mike could check the details, and what plants other than
ivy
are growing in the vicinity ...
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Its quite crowded in there, plants include hazel certainly, laurel, yew,
privet, holly, and more that I am unable to name are also in quite close
proximity.

Mike


Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape. At this time of year there are no
signs of the flower spikes on my colonies. They come in August or so.
Does your presumed Lathrea Squamata set seed? If so I wouldn't mind
some - which I could swap for an option on my Orobanche hederae harvest
in September.

john

The area was covered in Ivy until recently when I cleared it all. As to
whether it sets seeds, I have no idea but you are welcome to some if it
does. How do I tell?

Mike

Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape. At this time of year there are no
signs of the flower spikes on my colonies. They come in August or so.
Does your presumed Lathrea Squamata set seed? If so I wouldn't mind
some - which I could swap for an option on my Orobanche hederae harvest
in September.

john

The area was covered in Ivy until recently when I cleared it all. As to
whether it sets seeds, I have no idea but you are welcome to some if it
does. How do I tell?

Mike


Hmm, I'm not sure. In the case of Lathraea Clandestina, the flowers
fade from purple to brown and papery, but the seed case doesn't really
dry very much. At some point, when the seed is ripe, it opens, often
explosively and can throw the seed some metres. How it ever reaches
the next colonizable host without human intervention, I don't know.
maybe thats why it rare.

http://www.rhs.org.uk/WhatsOn/garden...hallpom04apr.a
sp

The seed should be planted when fresh apparently. I've tried this twice,
once two and three years ago with no result as yet. However, it can
take up to ten years.

I guess Lathraea Squamaria is similar? So wait for the flowers to die
back a bit, then poke or squeeze them to see if seed jump out.
Maybe just pick a whole flower spike or two? If it looks like there
is any chance of seed, e-mail me and I'll give you my postal address.
I'll plant it and then wait another ten years. Hey, isn't horticulture
exciting.


The Orobanche Hederae seeds
are much more well behaved, being about 0.5mm black spherical.
When the flowers have died down you can just pick the stems and shake
them into paper bags. It clearly doesn't mind dry storage.