On Jul 27, 11:29 am, Martin Brown
wrote:

And don't buy Monsantos Roundup unless you like their GM monopoly, buy
the cheaper generic Glyphosate own brand with the highest proportion
of active ingredient per £.

We don't buy Monsanto we but the generic stuff when in France at a
fraction of the price here. Edward is busy in France today using it
from a sprayer to get rid of a grass that he has attacked by hand for
a couple of years but it still returns. I will use it when I get
there, using the plastic bag technique for a climbing, strangling weed
that is in the middle of a shrub and short of digging up the shrub, I
can't get it.

We don't use it near veg but we do use sprays when all else fails.
Spray is not our first solution but it is often the last one when
natural remedies fail. I discussed this with Edward by email last
night and I cut and pasted a few posts. He says that in his opinion,
and it is one that I have huge respect for, that organic is fine and
we all try to aspire to it in some way, but not to take it to stupid
lengths as there are many things growing on plants that are more
dangerous than what is being sprayed on. He mentioned moulds and then
went into scientific and medical mode at which point I stopped
understanding.

Judith

On Jul 27, 8:44 am, Emery Davis wrote:
, lack of moisture and impoverishment of the soil.

Hello K,

I agree that allelophathy -- the name for the process in question -- is
easily made a scapegoat for poor culture. None the less plant allelopathy is
a very well documented and researched area of botany. Are you
saying you "don't believe in it?"

cordially,

Now, this is a discussion I will look forward to as Kay is a much
respected poster also with a vast knowledge of stuff. If only we had
Janet Barraclough here at this point as her expertise is sadly
missing. Hopefully Janet will be posting soon now that she has
completed other matters which took up her time.

Judith

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:07:41 -0700
" wrote:

[]

Hi Judith,

Flattery will get you everywhere!

I don't claim to be a wine expert, but I do know a couple of things.

Judith p.s. I have a St. Emilion, Chateau Soutard, Grand cru Classe
2000. Is it now ready to drink or will it improve with another year
or so?

You should ask on afw! I haven't tasted the Soutard 2000, but
judging from the style of the house I'd say drink or hold. I'd hold for a few
more, but if you like soft fruit it might be pretty well integrated by now.

Should be a nice bottle, enjoy!

-E


--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Emery Davis writes
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:34:31 +0100
K wrote:

I understand that dandelions secrete a chemical which inhibits the
growth of other plants and that may partly account for the length of
time it's taken for the grass/other flowers to fill in the patches, but
I'm now inclined to take the assertion about glyphosate becoming
inactive on contact with the soil with a large pinch of sceptical salt.

I'm immensely sceptical about assertions that various plants secrete
chemicals that inhibit growth of other plants. It's said about a lot of
different trees, and in a lot of cases, absence of growth can easily be
explained by shade, lack of moisture and impoverishment of the soil.


I agree that allelophathy -- the name for the process in question -- is
easily made a scapegoat for poor culture. None the less plant allelopathy is
a very well documented and researched area of botany. Are you
saying you "don't believe in it?"

No, I'm aware that allelopathy exists and is shown by a variety of
plants.

I'm saying that some people (not pointing the finger at anyone here) too
readily reach for allelopathy as an explanation when what is happening
is merely competition for resources.


--
Kay

Uncle Marvo writes
In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

On 27/7/07 11:22, in article ,
"Uncle Marvo" wrote:

In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this
in , I, Marvo, say :

On 27/7/07 10:06, in article ,
"Uncle Marvo" wrote:

In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this
in , I, Marvo, say :

I'm very wary of the organic claims from far flung countries
because I'm not au fait with how they're inspected or set. In
any case, I try not to buy foods that have flown thousands of
miles to get here. They're not only not fresh, they're not
'planet friendly'.

I have read that it makes more sense to fly them here than force
them in heated greenhouses here.

The real answer is to eat only seasonal food, like wot we always
used to.

It won't happen, sadly.


No but it's what I aim for. I don't succeed all the time but I do
try. I use a fair bit of frozen veg too which, recent research has
shown, apparently, has often got more of the natural vitamins than
that which has been trucked around UK, let alone flown from Peru or
Chile!

The freezer was invented so that we could eat broad beans with our
gammon in winter, IMHO :-)

Yes, but they're British broad beans. ;-)

I know. And British Aunt Bessie's chips :-)

I don't actually own one, apart from the little bit in the top of the
fridge. It will hold ice cubes plus a bag of either broad beans or
Aunt Bessie's Oven Chips.


Freezers bring out my siege mentality. We have two and both are
always bursting at the seams!

As they should be. Most efficient way to run them, full up. If they're not,
you should stuff them with newspapers rather than try to freeze a pile of
air. Apparently.

Is that because the air falls out when you open the door, leaving you
freezing a completely new set of air? I can't see any other reason why
freezing newspapers should be more energy efficient than freezing air.


--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Uncle Marvo writes
In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this in
k, I, Marvo, say :

On 27/7/07 11:22, in article ,
"Uncle Marvo" wrote:

In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this
in , I, Marvo, say :

On 27/7/07 10:06, in article ,
"Uncle Marvo" wrote:

In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this
in , I, Marvo, say :

I'm very wary of the organic claims from far flung countries
because I'm not au fait with how they're inspected or set. In
any case, I try not to buy foods that have flown thousands of
miles to get here. They're not only not fresh, they're not
'planet friendly'.

I have read that it makes more sense to fly them here than force
them in heated greenhouses here.

The real answer is to eat only seasonal food, like wot we always
used to.

It won't happen, sadly.


No but it's what I aim for. I don't succeed all the time but I do
try. I use a fair bit of frozen veg too which, recent research has
shown, apparently, has often got more of the natural vitamins than
that which has been trucked around UK, let alone flown from Peru or
Chile!

The freezer was invented so that we could eat broad beans with our
gammon in winter, IMHO :-)

Yes, but they're British broad beans. ;-)

I know. And British Aunt Bessie's chips :-)

I don't actually own one, apart from the little bit in the top of the
fridge. It will hold ice cubes plus a bag of either broad beans or
Aunt Bessie's Oven Chips.


Freezers bring out my siege mentality. We have two and both are
always bursting at the seams!

As they should be. Most efficient way to run them, full up. If they're
not,
you should stuff them with newspapers rather than try to freeze a pile of
air. Apparently.

Is that because the air falls out when you open the door, leaving you
freezing a completely new set of air? I can't see any other reason why
freezing newspapers should be more energy efficient than freezing air.


--
Kay

Pack spare spaces with plastic Milk Cartons washed out and nearly filled
with water. (Allow for expansion when the water freezes) They won't 'thaw'
as you open the door :-)))

Mike



--
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association if you served in the Electrical Branch of the Royal Navy
Reunion Bournemouth August/September 2007
www.rneba.org.uk
"Navy Days" Portsmouth 25th - 27th July 2008. RN Shipmates will have a Stand

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:04:12 +0200
Martin wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:22:47 +0200, Emery Davis wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:17:13 +0200
Martin wrote:

[]
The EU has directed that bottles containing sulfites must be labeled.


Interesting, I hadn't seen that. Directive?



http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200604/146187574.pdf

Thanks for the link. I didn't follow to the actual EU directive (the pdf gives
it), but I wonder if this will apply to domestic EU production too. No one has
mentioned it to me yet, and label changes are a big cause for friendly griping.

In regards to the sulfite question, here's a link from UC Davis that discusses the
headache and other reaction issue. It mentions that if you are able to eat a couple of
dried apricots with no ill effects, you don't have a problem with sulfites. There is
also a brief discussion about the anecdotal nature of the sulfite/headache question.

http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/winecomp/so2.htm

cheers,

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:37:41 +0100
K wrote:

Emery Davis writes
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:34:31 +0100
K wrote:

I understand that dandelions secrete a chemical which inhibits the
growth of other plants and that may partly account for the length of
time it's taken for the grass/other flowers to fill in the patches, but
I'm now inclined to take the assertion about glyphosate becoming
inactive on contact with the soil with a large pinch of sceptical salt.

I'm immensely sceptical about assertions that various plants secrete
chemicals that inhibit growth of other plants. It's said about a lot of
different trees, and in a lot of cases, absence of growth can easily be
explained by shade, lack of moisture and impoverishment of the soil.


I agree that allelophathy -- the name for the process in question -- is
easily made a scapegoat for poor culture. None the less plant allelopathy is
a very well documented and researched area of botany. Are you
saying you "don't believe in it?"

No, I'm aware that allelopathy exists and is shown by a variety of
plants.

I'm saying that some people (not pointing the finger at anyone here) too
readily reach for allelopathy as an explanation when what is happening
is merely competition for resources.


Thanks for the clarification, and apologies for mis-reading. We agree completely.

cheers,

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On 27/7/07 22:52, in article , "Emery
Davis" wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:04:12 +0200
Martin wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:22:47 +0200, Emery Davis
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:17:13 +0200
Martin wrote:

[]
The EU has directed that bottles containing sulfites must be labeled.


Interesting, I hadn't seen that. Directive?



http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200604/146187574.pdf

Thanks for the link. I didn't follow to the actual EU directive (the pdf
gives
it), but I wonder if this will apply to domestic EU production too. No one
has
mentioned it to me yet, and label changes are a big cause for friendly
griping.

In regards to the sulfite question, here's a link from UC Davis that discusses
the
headache and other reaction issue. It mentions that if you are able to eat a
couple of
dried apricots with no ill effects, you don't have a problem with sulfites.
There is
also a brief discussion about the anecdotal nature of the sulfite/headache
question.

http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/winecomp/so2.htm

cheers,

-E

I looked up Chateau Romanin as it's the only wine I know of made according
to biodynamics. It lists 'Flowers of Sulphur' among its 'ingredients' thus:
Life
Cow dung compost
Nettle herbal tea
Horsetail decoction
Achillea millefolium
Ground silica
Flowers of sulphur
*
The seeding calendar
The fruit days
Planets
Constellations
Influences
Moon
Sun
Organic fertilizer
Nature
Character
Potentization
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 28/7/07 11:06, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:53:32 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 27/7/07 22:52, in article , "Emery
Davis" wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:04:12 +0200
Martin wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:22:47 +0200, Emery Davis
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:17:13 +0200
Martin wrote:

[]
The EU has directed that bottles containing sulfites must be labeled.


Interesting, I hadn't seen that. Directive?



http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200604/146187574.pdf

Thanks for the link. I didn't follow to the actual EU directive (the pdf
gives
it), but I wonder if this will apply to domestic EU production too. No one
has
mentioned it to me yet, and label changes are a big cause for friendly
griping.

In regards to the sulfite question, here's a link from UC Davis that
discusses
the
headache and other reaction issue. It mentions that if you are able to eat
a
couple of
dried apricots with no ill effects, you don't have a problem with sulfites.
There is
also a brief discussion about the anecdotal nature of the sulfite/headache
question.

http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/winecomp/so2.htm

cheers,

-E

I looked up Chateau Romanin as it's the only wine I know of made according
to biodynamics. It lists 'Flowers of Sulphur' among its 'ingredients' thus:
Life
Cow dung compost
Nettle herbal tea
Horsetail decoction
Achillea millefolium
Ground silica
Flowers of sulphur

Is that the ingredients?

;-) Have a look at:
http://www.romanin.com/pages/biodynamie.php?lang=en

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 28/7/07 11:16, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:06:55 +0200, Martin wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:53:32 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 27/7/07 22:52, in article , "Emery
Davis" wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:04:12 +0200
Martin wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:22:47 +0200, Emery Davis
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:17:13 +0200
Martin wrote:

[]
The EU has directed that bottles containing sulfites must be labeled.


Interesting, I hadn't seen that. Directive?



http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200604/146187574.pdf

Thanks for the link. I didn't follow to the actual EU directive (the pdf
gives
it), but I wonder if this will apply to domestic EU production too. No one
has
mentioned it to me yet, and label changes are a big cause for friendly
griping.

In regards to the sulfite question, here's a link from UC Davis that
discusses
the
headache and other reaction issue. It mentions that if you are able to eat
a
couple of
dried apricots with no ill effects, you don't have a problem with sulfites.
There is
also a brief discussion about the anecdotal nature of the sulfite/headache
question.

http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/winecomp/so2.htm

cheers,

-E

I looked up Chateau Romanin as it's the only wine I know of made according
to biodynamics. It lists 'Flowers of Sulphur' among its 'ingredients' thus:
Life
Cow dung compost
Nettle herbal tea
Horsetail decoction
Achillea millefolium
Ground silica
Flowers of sulphur

Is that the ingredients?

OK I've found what you were looking at
http://www.romanin.com/pages/biodynamie.php?lang=en

I hope they take the solar cycle into account too :-)

We actually went there and bought some of the wine. We'd had some in a
restaurant in the Camargue and were so impressed with it that we found the
chateau and bought some cases. It's really good. But I found the way
Flowers of Sulphur was slipped in with all the other tlc stuff and made to
sound so innocent, was quite funny! The (fairly) new owners are my ex sister
in law's parents but I didn't know that at the time. They used to own
Chateau Montrose, another outstandingly good wine, so they know what they're
up to. I do wonder what made them make such a major life change, though!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 28/7/07 11:28, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:16:02 +0100, Sacha
wrote:
snip

;-) Have a look at:
http://www.romanin.com/pages/biodynamie.php?lang=en

I did already, see my later post.

I have, we must have 'crossed'. This is another link to organic wines:
http://www.winedine.co.uk/page.php?cid=799
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:51:54 +0100
Sacha wrote:

I looked up Chateau Romanin as it's the only wine I know of made according
to biodynamics. It lists 'Flowers of Sulphur' among its 'ingredients' thus:
Life
Cow dung compost
Nettle herbal tea
Horsetail decoction
Achillea millefolium
Ground silica
Flowers of sulphur

Is that the ingredients?

OK I've found what you were looking at
http://www.romanin.com/pages/biodynamie.php?lang=en

I hope they take the solar cycle into account too :-)

We actually went there and bought some of the wine. We'd had some in a
restaurant in the Camargue and were so impressed with it that we found the
chateau and bought some cases. It's really good. But I found the way
Flowers of Sulphur was slipped in with all the other tlc stuff and made to
sound so innocent, was quite funny! The (fairly) new owners are my ex sister
in law's parents but I didn't know that at the time. They used to own
Chateau Montrose, another outstandingly good wine, so they know what they're
up to. I do wonder what made them make such a major life change, though!

Hi Sacha,

They can't actually add this stuff and still call it "wine" in the EU, AFAIK! So
I think this is some other biodynamic recipe.

Several of the first growths are actually biodynamic now. I forget which ones,
and they don't always advertise it.

You have to be very committed (or maybe you should be committed!) to go
the biodynamic route. My sister tried it for a few years on a farm in Wales, it
was rather difficult. I visited and remember scything oats and peas by hand,
quite a blistering experience. The beer on the other hand was excellent!

BTW I checked, addition of sulphur is allowed in biodynamic wine making. This
of course stands to reason as (for example) the wines of b-d evangelist Nicholas
Joly are very long lived (and excellent).

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On 28/7/07 12:59, in article , "Emery
Davis" wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:51:54 +0100
Sacha wrote:

I looked up Chateau Romanin as it's the only wine I know of made according
to biodynamics. It lists 'Flowers of Sulphur' among its 'ingredients'
thus:
Life
Cow dung compost
Nettle herbal tea
Horsetail decoction
Achillea millefolium
Ground silica
Flowers of sulphur

Is that the ingredients?

OK I've found what you were looking at
http://www.romanin.com/pages/biodynamie.php?lang=en

I hope they take the solar cycle into account too :-)

We actually went there and bought some of the wine. We'd had some in a
restaurant in the Camargue and were so impressed with it that we found the
chateau and bought some cases. It's really good. But I found the way
Flowers of Sulphur was slipped in with all the other tlc stuff and made to
sound so innocent, was quite funny! The (fairly) new owners are my ex sister
in law's parents but I didn't know that at the time. They used to own
Chateau Montrose, another outstandingly good wine, so they know what they're
up to. I do wonder what made them make such a major life change, though!

Hi Sacha,

They can't actually add this stuff and still call it "wine" in the EU, AFAIK!
So
I think this is some other biodynamic recipe.

I think they're listing all the things they 'feed' the grapes with and have
put in the Flowers of Sulphur bit there because it looks so innocent! I
said something about this in a post to Martin.

Several of the first growths are actually biodynamic now. I forget which
ones,
and they don't always advertise it.

Again, I found a site that lists some of them and posted an url.

You have to be very committed (or maybe you should be committed!) to go
the biodynamic route. My sister tried it for a few years on a farm in Wales,
it
was rather difficult. I visited and remember scything oats and peas by hand,
quite a blistering experience. The beer on the other hand was excellent!

It sounds as if it would have to be! I'm assuming the Charmolues at Rmanin
have a lot of staff, because neither is in the first flush of youth. In
fact, they're great grandparents now.

BTW I checked, addition of sulphur is allowed in biodynamic wine making. This
of course stands to reason as (for example) the wines of b-d evangelist
Nicholas
Joly are very long lived (and excellent).

-E

Even I've heard of him!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In reply to K ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

Uncle Marvo writes
In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this
in , I, Marvo, say :

they're not, you should stuff them with newspapers rather than try
to freeze a pile of air. Apparently.

Is that because the air falls out when you open the door, leaving you
freezing a completely new set of air? I can't see any other reason why
freezing newspapers should be more energy efficient than freezing air.

I should know the answer to this, but I don't.

It's summat to do with latent gubbins (the difference between the
temperature difference needed to make something freeze and the heat input
needed to that it again or something, if I'd been listening I would possibly
have passed my Physics A level) and the fact that air doesn't freeze very
well. In fact it doesn't freeze at all at the sorts of temperatures a
freezer runs at.

Newspapers are probably a bad example. Water is a better one, as Mike points
out. The best thing really is to keep the freezer full, preferably with
broad beans. You can never have too many broad beans :-)