In article ,
June Hughes writes:
|
| | It certainly sounds possibly that it may be some sort of japonica to me
| | - mine produces red fruit (which are poisonous) but to have them at this
| | time of year is a bit of a mystery. Ii have not researched japonicas
| | but mine flowers in spring and the fruit is a result. It's all over by
| | May. It is strange that I have nothing in either the RHS books or
| | cookery books.
|
| Eh? "japonica" is a species name. It is normally used for Chaenomeles
| japonica (or C. speciosa or C. x superba), the Japanese quince, and
| the fruit are normal at this time of year and most definitely NOT at
| all poisonous.
|
| I didn't say japonicas were all poisonous. I said it may be some sort
| of japonica and that the fruit from mine is poisonous. Please try and
| read what is said and please do not shout.

You were and are very confused - I will try once more to try to
reduce your confusion.

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

While I can grasp the concept of someone categorising all plants
with "japonica" as a specific epithet in a group, it makes no sense
in gardening terms. You would be classifying Paeonia japonica
together with Chaenomeles japonica, for a start.

I don't know what you mean by "some sort of japonica", if you don't
mean Chaenomeles and include something with poisonous fruit, and I
doubt that many other people will, either.

And I recommend reading "Tristram Shandy", for an education into
traditional English typographic conventions.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email

In message , Mike....
writes
Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Yes, there are "japanese" quinces. They just happen to be identical to
the plants of genus Chaenomeles. (And they're not poisonous.)

My guess is that June is thinking of Camellia japonica, which does have
fruits of roughly the right shape and size.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In message , Stewart Robert Hinsley
writes
In message , Mike....
writes
Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Yes, there are "japanese" quinces. They just happen to be identical to
the plants of genus Chaenomeles. (And they're not poisonous.)

My guess is that June is thinking of Camellia japonica, which does have
fruits of roughly the right shape and size.
Very possibly. At least you were civil with your answer and I have
learned something. I thank you for that and wish some others could be a
little more pleasant.
--
June Hughes

On 3/12/07 17:00, in article ,
"Mike...." wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then there are
named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly pear-shaped fruit
- these are real beauties when mature trees but they're not the 'mysterious
fruit' I'm trying to ID.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article
, "Mike...."
wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from
them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit - these are real beauties when mature trees but
they're not the 'mysterious fruit' I'm trying to ID.

All this sounds so exotic to me. I tend to grow apples, plums,
blackberries, rhubarb and blackcurrants. We do eat them and I cook with
them. I suppose it is because it is what I grew up with I do try unknown
fruits but somehow I can't get to grips with them.

Ophelia wrote:

Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article
, "Mike...."
wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from
them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit - these are real beauties when mature trees but
they're not the 'mysterious fruit' I'm trying to ID.

All this sounds so exotic to me. I tend to grow apples, plums,
blackberries, rhubarb and blackcurrants. We do eat them and I cook with
them. I suppose it is because it is what I grew up with I do try unknown
fruits but somehow I can't get to grips with them.

I had fun trying to ID nisperos in English- as I only ever knew them by
the spanish name. It's loquat, but the Italian nespole (that's what they
were called in a market when we bought them in Rome) translates as
medlar fruit, which I don't think is the same thing- though related
IIRC?

One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

In article ,
says...
Ophelia wrote:

Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article
, "Mike...."
wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from
them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit - these are real beauties when mature trees but
they're not the 'mysterious fruit' I'm trying to ID.

All this sounds so exotic to me. I tend to grow apples, plums,
blackberries, rhubarb and blackcurrants. We do eat them and I cook with
them. I suppose it is because it is what I grew up with I do try unknown
fruits but somehow I can't get to grips with them.

I had fun trying to ID nisperos in English- as I only ever knew them by
the spanish name. It's loquat, but the Italian nespole (that's what they
were called in a market when we bought them in Rome) translates as
medlar fruit, which I don't think is the same thing- though related
IIRC?

One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...


Grenadilla is one of several species of Passion fruit
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Charlie Pridham wrote:

In article ,
says...
[]
One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...


Grenadilla is one of several species of Passion fruit

So I see, but when I think of passion fruit (at least what goes by that
name here) it's quite different.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

In message , "David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)" writes
Ophelia wrote:

Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article
, "Mike...."
wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from
them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit - these are real beauties when mature trees but
they're not the 'mysterious fruit' I'm trying to ID.

All this sounds so exotic to me. I tend to grow apples, plums,
blackberries, rhubarb and blackcurrants. We do eat them and I cook with
them. I suppose it is because it is what I grew up with I do try unknown
fruits but somehow I can't get to grips with them.

I had fun trying to ID nisperos in English- as I only ever knew them by
the spanish name. It's loquat, but the Italian nespole (that's what they
were called in a market when we bought them in Rome) translates as
medlar fruit, which I don't think is the same thing- though related
IIRC?

One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...

We don't have a Lidl near here, although they have just opened an Aldi
in North Finchley. Are they similar in what they sell, please?
--
June Hughes

June Hughes wrote:

In message , "David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)" writes
[]
One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...

We don't have a Lidl near here, although they have just opened an Aldi
in North Finchley. Are they similar in what they sell, please?

Similar- not quite the same, at least in the UK. Aldi (and Lidl) are
quite variable- excellent buys for some things. For example, fresh
mozzarella, proscuitto di parma. They also had an _excellent_ syrupy
balsamic vinegar a while back- the regular balsamic they have is fine,
but nothing special. Also, when in season they stock local veg-
excellent lancashire tomatoes in the ones here! Also, the baby leaf
salad is good. At the moment, the jumbo shrimp and scallops are very
good. Don't buy the lobster, very disappointing...

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

In message , "David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)" writes
Ophelia wrote:

Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article
, "Mike...."
wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from
them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit - these are real beauties when mature trees but
they're not the 'mysterious fruit' I'm trying to ID.

All this sounds so exotic to me. I tend to grow apples, plums,
blackberries, rhubarb and blackcurrants. We do eat them and I cook with
them. I suppose it is because it is what I grew up with I do try unknown
fruits but somehow I can't get to grips with them.

I had fun trying to ID nisperos in English- as I only ever knew them by
the spanish name. It's loquat, but the Italian nespole (that's what they
were called in a market when we bought them in Rome) translates as
medlar fruit, which I don't think is the same thing- though related
IIRC?

You can think of a medlar (Mespilus) as a giant haw (Crataegus); loquats
(Eriobotrya) are also pome fruits, but so are apples, pears,
serviceberries, and quite a few other plants.

One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...

Yes, there is an English name; it is granadilla.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granadilla
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

In message , "David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)" writes
[]
I had fun trying to ID nisperos in English- as I only ever knew them by
the spanish name. It's loquat, but the Italian nespole (that's what they
were called in a market when we bought them in Rome) translates as
medlar fruit, which I don't think is the same thing- though related
IIRC?

You can think of a medlar (Mespilus) as a giant haw (Crataegus); loquats
(Eriobotrya) are also pome fruits, but so are apples, pears,
serviceberries, and quite a few other plants.

Interesting- I wonder why the 'confusion' in various language
dictionaries about this.

One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...

Yes, there is an English name; it is granadilla.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granadilla

Ah, thanks. I'd only referred to it before when talking in Spanish, and
it's the same spelling- my mistake!

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote in
:

In message , "David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)" writes
Ophelia wrote:

Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article
, "Mike...."
wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of
the Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants
means that and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the
meaning to be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a
time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly
from them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit - these are real beauties when mature trees but
they're not the 'mysterious fruit' I'm trying to ID.

All this sounds so exotic to me. I tend to grow apples, plums,
blackberries, rhubarb and blackcurrants. We do eat them and I cook
with them. I suppose it is because it is what I grew up with I
do try unknown fruits but somehow I can't get to grips with them.

I had fun trying to ID nisperos in English- as I only ever knew them
by the spanish name. It's loquat, but the Italian nespole (that's what
they were called in a market when we bought them in Rome) translates
as medlar fruit, which I don't think is the same thing- though related
IIRC?

You can think of a medlar (Mespilus) as a giant haw (Crataegus);
loquats (Eriobotrya) are also pome fruits, but so are apples, pears,
serviceberries, and quite a few other plants.

One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...

Yes, there is an English name; it is granadilla.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granadilla

Hello blast-from-the-past.


--
Adrian

Remove packaging and take out insurance before emailing me

On 4/12/07 17:05, in article ,
"David Horne, _the_ chancellor *" wrote:

Ophelia wrote:

Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article
, "Mike...."
wrote:

Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from
them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit - these are real beauties when mature trees but
they're not the 'mysterious fruit' I'm trying to ID.

All this sounds so exotic to me. I tend to grow apples, plums,
blackberries, rhubarb and blackcurrants. We do eat them and I cook with
them. I suppose it is because it is what I grew up with I do try unknown
fruits but somehow I can't get to grips with them.

I had fun trying to ID nisperos in English- as I only ever knew them by
the spanish name. It's loquat, but the Italian nespole (that's what they
were called in a market when we bought them in Rome) translates as
medlar fruit, which I don't think is the same thing- though related
IIRC?

I think this is a bit like the Cydonia quince and the Chaenomeles quince,
isn't it?

One fruit I particularly like but don't see much in the UK shops is
grenadilla (is there an English name?). Divine! Lidl (of all places!)
was selling them a while back...

Passion flower - Passiflora edulis and yes, delicious but unlikely to do
much fruiting in the UK.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'