Hello everybody

I've been lurking for quite a while and learning loads but now I have
a question of my own.

A few weeks ago I was walking round a garden centre and a dahlia
display caught my eye. I ended up buying three packs of tubers - D.
'Weissensee', D. 'Esther' and D. 'Jeanne d'Arc'. I didn't really know
what to do with them, but the book said to start them into growth in
seed trays of multipurpose compost, so that's what I did.

Anyway, fast-forward to today and Weissensee has put on about 15cm of
top growth, Esther about 5cm and Jeanne d'Arc is just starting to
sprout.

Is it too early to plant these out yet? I'm concerned that they'll get
hit by frost if I plant them now but on the other hand I put 2 tubers
in each seed tray (3 for Weisensee, since that was what was in the
pack) and if I leave them too long I imagine the roots will get all
intertwined and I'll check their growth when it comes to putting them
in the ground.

I'm in Kent, by the way, so I've apparently I've got at least 3 weeks
before the frost risk has passed.

Many thanks for any insights

Cheers

Neil

I noticed that one of mine is shooting through on the allotment so I will
have to look out for frost. Can you put them out in the pots in the day so
that they can get accustomed to the weather and whip them in night times if
frost is likely? Also beware of slugs

Neil Jones wrote:
: Hello everybody
:
: I've been lurking for quite a while and learning loads but now I have
: a question of my own.
:
: A few weeks ago I was walking round a garden centre and a dahlia
: display caught my eye. I ended up buying three packs of tubers - D.
: 'Weissensee', D. 'Esther' and D. 'Jeanne d'Arc'. I didn't really know
: what to do with them, but the book said to start them into growth in
: seed trays of multipurpose compost, so that's what I did.
:
: Anyway, fast-forward to today and Weissensee has put on about 15cm of
: top growth, Esther about 5cm and Jeanne d'Arc is just starting to
: sprout.
:
: Is it too early to plant these out yet? I'm concerned that they'll get
: hit by frost if I plant them now but on the other hand I put 2 tubers
: in each seed tray (3 for Weisensee, since that was what was in the
: pack) and if I leave them too long I imagine the roots will get all
: intertwined and I'll check their growth when it comes to putting them
: in the ground.
:
: I'm in Kent, by the way, so I've apparently I've got at least 3 weeks
: before the frost risk has passed.
:
: Many thanks for any insights
:
: Cheers
:
: Neil

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:31:15 +0000 (UTC), "The Devil's Advocate"
wrote:

I noticed that one of mine is shooting through on the allotment so I will
have to look out for frost. Can you put them out in the pots in the day so
that they can get accustomed to the weather and whip them in night times if
frost is likely? Also beware of slugs


No problem putting them out - SWMBO is around the house most days and
I made a cold frame over the winter so they can go in there.

Haven't really sufferred from slugs in the past, but then we've only
lived here for 2 years and up until now have only been doing
maintenance of existing shrubs and mowing the lawn etc rather than any
real gardening, so they'll probably come along to check out any new
stuff we put in.

Thanks for the advice

Neil

Pot them into 6 or 8 inch pots, with the crown at least 2 inches under the
compost, Stand them outside, and just bring them in if there is any chance
of frost.
You could "Stop" them when you have 3 or 4 pairs of leaves on the stems,
this will give you a better plant and more flowers.
for more info see http://www.dahlia-nds.co.uk/web2d.htm
and do use slug pellets.......I had a customer who planted out 16 plants,
forgot to put down slug pellets and lost the lot the first night.
--
David Hill
Abacus Nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:19:52 +0100, "david"
wrote:

Pot them into 6 or 8 inch pots, with the crown at least 2 inches under the
compost, Stand them outside, and just bring them in if there is any chance
of frost.
You could "Stop" them when you have 3 or 4 pairs of leaves on the stems,
this will give you a better plant and more flowers.
for more info see http://www.dahlia-nds.co.uk/web2d.htm
and do use slug pellets.......I had a customer who planted out 16 plants,
forgot to put down slug pellets and lost the lot the first night.

Or, if you want to be more natural in the control of the slugs,
douse them and the soil with quintuple strength coffee.

Huss

Grow a little garden

spam block - for real addy, reverse letters of second level domain.

" ......Or, if you want to be more natural in the control of the slugs,
douse them and the soil with quintuple strength coffee....."

I think it needs to be more like 10 times the normal strength, needs to
be around 3% Caffeine. and then it's contact not residual.

EXPERIMENT 1 RESULTS: Few slugs exited the soil over a period of
seven days following spraying with a caffeine concentration of 0% or
0.1%, but more than 70% of the slugs exited the soil within one day
following spraying with a caffeine concentration of 0.5% or 1%, and 100%
of the slugs exited the soil within two days (86% within one hour)
following spraying with a caffeine solution of 2%. Mortality rose to
around 90% two days following spraying with 2% caffeine.
EXPERIMENT 2 RESULTS: Leaf consumption was reduced by 39% with 2%
caffeine and by 29% with 0.5% caffeine in the no-choice trials. Leaf
consumption relative to that of leaves dipped in distilled water was
reduced by 64% with 2% caffeine and by 23% with 0.5% caffeine in the
choice trials.
EXPERIMENT 3 RESULTS: Heartbeat rates of snails treated with 0.1%,
0.5%, or 2% caffeine were significantly reduced relative to the
heartbeat rates of untreated snails. More than 90% of the snails treated
with 2% caffeine died within two days; all snails treated with 0.5% or
2% caffeine died within four days. No untreated snails or snails treated
with 0.01% caffeine died within four days.
EXPERIMENT 4 RESULTS: Spraying with 1% caffeine resulted in 55-65%
snail mortality, while spraying with 2% caffeine gave approximately 95%
mortality. Drenching with 2% resulted in significantly higher mortality
than drenching with metaldehyde.
Some foliar phytotoxicity symptoms have been reported due to 2%
caffeine applications, especially if the leaves were not rinsed off
within a week. Severe damage to cabbage and lettuce leaves resulted from
dips in 2% caffeine after the leaves had been harvested, but foliar
sprays of 2% caffeine did not damage the foliage of growing lettuce
plants.
Currently, the U.S. Food & Drug Administration considers caffeine to
be a GRAS (generally recognized as safe) chemical; it is allowed in soft
drinks at a concentration of 0.02%. However, pure caffeine is quite
toxic to humans, and its legal use as a pesticide in the U.S. has been
approved by the Environmental Protection Agency only in Hawaii (to
control frogs, NOT molluscs), where pure caffeine powder is considered a
³restricted use² pesticide and must be applied only by Certified
Applicators. As we noted in February 2003, instant coffee (as drunk)
typically contains approximately 0.05%, and brewed coffee has a bit
more. It would take a REALLY STRONG BREW of coffee to approach the
percentages of caffeine found by the Hawaiian researchers to be highly
effective against molluscs.


--
David Hill
Abacus Nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:09:55 +0100, "david"
wrote:

Excuse me for top posting David, but yours is a very long message
and I doubt the thread will get complicated from here on.

Whatever the strength with regards % of caffeine wise, I reckon on
a jar of strong Nescafe instant in about a litre of water. To some
people I know this is not far short of quintuple strength! Not really
- OK!

It seems to have worked for my Crambe (eaten alive last year) and
one or two select others however this is not a good guide as the very
dry weather so far this year has kept the molluscans numbers down
anyway.

Whatever. You were assiduous in your kindness by pointing out that
"five teaspoons of instant coffee in a mug concentration" is hardly
adequate. I would be hopeless at writing cookery books!

Respect

Hussein

" ......Or, if you want to be more natural in the control of the slugs,
douse them and the soil with quintuple strength coffee....."

I think it needs to be more like 10 times the normal strength, needs to
be around 3% Caffeine. and then it's contact not residual.

EXPERIMENT 1 RESULTS: Few slugs exited the soil over a period of
seven days following spraying with a caffeine concentration of 0% or
0.1%, but more than 70% of the slugs exited the soil within one day
following spraying with a caffeine concentration of 0.5% or 1%, and 100%
of the slugs exited the soil within two days (86% within one hour)
following spraying with a caffeine solution of 2%. Mortality rose to
around 90% two days following spraying with 2% caffeine.
EXPERIMENT 2 RESULTS: Leaf consumption was reduced by 39% with 2%
caffeine and by 29% with 0.5% caffeine in the no-choice trials. Leaf
consumption relative to that of leaves dipped in distilled water was
reduced by 64% with 2% caffeine and by 23% with 0.5% caffeine in the
choice trials.
EXPERIMENT 3 RESULTS: Heartbeat rates of snails treated with 0.1%,
0.5%, or 2% caffeine were significantly reduced relative to the
heartbeat rates of untreated snails. More than 90% of the snails treated
with 2% caffeine died within two days; all snails treated with 0.5% or
2% caffeine died within four days. No untreated snails or snails treated
with 0.01% caffeine died within four days.
EXPERIMENT 4 RESULTS: Spraying with 1% caffeine resulted in 55-65%
snail mortality, while spraying with 2% caffeine gave approximately 95%
mortality. Drenching with 2% resulted in significantly higher mortality
than drenching with metaldehyde.
Some foliar phytotoxicity symptoms have been reported due to 2%
caffeine applications, especially if the leaves were not rinsed off
within a week. Severe damage to cabbage and lettuce leaves resulted from
dips in 2% caffeine after the leaves had been harvested, but foliar
sprays of 2% caffeine did not damage the foliage of growing lettuce
plants.
Currently, the U.S. Food & Drug Administration considers caffeine to
be a GRAS (generally recognized as safe) chemical; it is allowed in soft
drinks at a concentration of 0.02%. However, pure caffeine is quite
toxic to humans, and its legal use as a pesticide in the U.S. has been
approved by the Environmental Protection Agency only in Hawaii (to
control frogs, NOT molluscs), where pure caffeine powder is considered a
³restricted use² pesticide and must be applied only by Certified
Applicators. As we noted in February 2003, instant coffee (as drunk)
typically contains approximately 0.05%, and brewed coffee has a bit
more. It would take a REALLY STRONG BREW of coffee to approach the
percentages of caffeine found by the Hawaiian researchers to be highly
effective against molluscs.

Grow a little garden

spam block - for real addy, reverse letters of second level domain.

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:17:15 +0100, Hussein M.
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:09:55 +0100, "david"
wrote:

Excuse me for top posting David, but yours is a very long message
and I doubt the thread will get complicated from here on.

Whatever the strength with regards % of caffeine wise, I reckon on
a jar of strong Nescafe instant in about a litre of water. To some
people I know this is not far short of quintuple strength! Not really
- OK!

big snip

So, I repot the dahlias, prolly this wekend, and stick out side with
some protection from weather and slugs. Sounds good. Can I also start
hardening off my other tender plants I've been growing on since the
winter ie some pelargoniums and some fuchsia cuttings, or should I
keep them indoors a bit longer?

Regards

Neil

".........Can I also start hardening off my other tender plants I've been
growing on since the winter ie some pelargoniums and some fuchsia cuttings,
or should I keep them indoors a bit longer?......."

Depends where you are.
Watch out for frost 3 days either side of next Full Moon


--
David Hill
Abacus Nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:22:20 +0100, "david"
wrote:

".........Can I also start hardening off my other tender plants I've been
growing on since the winter ie some pelargoniums and some fuchsia cuttings,
or should I keep them indoors a bit longer?......."

Depends where you are.
Watch out for frost 3 days either side of next Full Moon

I'm in Kent, near Tonbridge. I'm in a fairly rural location and the
temperature here is noticeably cooler than the local towns.

Next full moon is apparently 16th May. Is this 6 day window a well
known phenomenon?

Cheers

Neil

I have found over the years that the last frosts are very often in that
period 3 days either side of the Last full Moon in May (if you have clear
sky's), and the first frosts also come in the same 6 day period from end of
Sept.
It's not 100% but works more often than not.


--
David Hill
Abacus Nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk