This may be more appropriate for the English language section, but perhaps
gardeners also have animals. Such animal lovers will affectionately refer
to their pets as a he or she. However, I have noticed that this use of language
has increasingly become standard English, e.g. BBC news. I recently saw a BBC
news story where a beetle was referred to as "he". How far down this road is
this going to go? What about fleas, bacteria etc. Oddly enough, a fetus is
referred to is "it".

On Jun 8, 9:35*am, johannes wrote:
This may be more appropriate for the English language section, but perhaps
gardeners also have animals. Such animal lovers will affectionately refer
to their pets as a he or she. However, I have noticed that this use of language
has increasingly become standard English, e.g. BBC news. I recently saw a BBC
news story where a beetle was referred to as "he". How far down this road is
this going to go? What about fleas, bacteria etc. Oddly enough, a fetus is
referred to is "it".

Beetles do have clear gender biologically and in some cases the
genders are clearly different looking. In that case, it is possible
that the gender of the beetle was clear and then the use of "he" would
be apropriate. For example, male stag beetles have huge "antlers".
If the gender was not clear, however, then it sounds silly.

Des Higgins wrote:

On Jun 8, 9:35 am, johannes wrote:
This may be more appropriate for the English language section, but perhaps
gardeners also have animals. Such animal lovers will affectionately refer
to their pets as a he or she. However, I have noticed that this use of language
has increasingly become standard English, e.g. BBC news. I recently saw a BBC
news story where a beetle was referred to as "he". How far down this road is
this going to go? What about fleas, bacteria etc. Oddly enough, a fetus is
referred to is "it".

Beetles do have clear gender biologically and in some cases the
genders are clearly different looking. In that case, it is possible
that the gender of the beetle was clear and then the use of "he" would
be apropriate. For example, male stag beetles have huge "antlers".
If the gender was not clear, however, then it sounds silly.

But some plants also have clear biologically. I am not clever, just looked it
up in wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexuality

"Androecious - plants producing male flowers only, produce pollen but no seeds, the
male plants of a Dioecious species."

"Gynoecious - plants producing female flowers only, produces seeds but no pollen,
the female of a Dioecious species. In some plant species or populations all
individuals are gynoecious with non sexual reproduction used to produce the next
generation."

On Jun 8, 12:13*pm, johannes wrote:
Des Higgins wrote:

On Jun 8, 9:35 am, johannes wrote:
This may be more appropriate for the English language section, but perhaps
gardeners also have animals. Such animal lovers will affectionately refer
to their pets as a he or she. However, I have noticed that this use of language
has increasingly become standard English, e.g. BBC news. I recently saw a BBC
news story where a beetle was referred to as "he". How far down this road is
this going to go? What about fleas, bacteria etc. Oddly enough, a fetus is
referred to is "it".

Beetles do have clear gender biologically and in some cases the
genders are clearly different looking. *In that case, it is possible
that the gender of the beetle was clear and then the use of "he" would
be apropriate. *For example, male stag beetles have huge "antlers".
If the gender was not clear, however, then it sounds silly.

But some plants also have clear biologically. I am not clever, just looked it
up in wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexuality

"Androecious - plants producing male flowers only, produce pollen but no seeds, the
male plants of a Dioecious species."

"Gynoecious - plants producing female flowers only, produces seeds but no pollen,
the female of a Dioecious species. In some plant species or populations all
individuals are gynoecious with non sexual reproduction used to produce the next
generation."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ok, for common usage, referring to insects (or spiders) as "he" or
"she" is unusual but not unheard of. Usually it would be "it".
Referring to mammals as "he" or "she" would be quite common if you
knew the gender (especially for pets). Referring to plants by gender
would be rare and quaint and just for special effect; normally it
would be "it". Most people would not have heard of dioecy or would not
realise that male and female plants existed and would not refer to
such plants by gender.

Des Higgins wrote:

On Jun 8, 12:13 pm, johannes wrote:
Des Higgins wrote:

On Jun 8, 9:35 am, johannes wrote:
This may be more appropriate for the English language section, but perhaps
gardeners also have animals. Such animal lovers will affectionately refer
to their pets as a he or she. However, I have noticed that this use of language
has increasingly become standard English, e.g. BBC news. I recently saw a BBC
news story where a beetle was referred to as "he". How far down this road is
this going to go? What about fleas, bacteria etc. Oddly enough, a fetus is
referred to is "it".

Beetles do have clear gender biologically and in some cases the
genders are clearly different looking. In that case, it is possible
that the gender of the beetle was clear and then the use of "he" would
be apropriate. For example, male stag beetles have huge "antlers".
If the gender was not clear, however, then it sounds silly.

But some plants also have clear biologically. I am not clever, just looked it
up in wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexuality

"Androecious - plants producing male flowers only, produce pollen but no seeds, the
male plants of a Dioecious species."

"Gynoecious - plants producing female flowers only, produces seeds but no pollen,
the female of a Dioecious species. In some plant species or populations all
individuals are gynoecious with non sexual reproduction used to produce the next
generation."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ok, for common usage, referring to insects (or spiders) as "he" or
"she" is unusual but not unheard of. Usually it would be "it".
Referring to mammals as "he" or "she" would be quite common if you
knew the gender (especially for pets). Referring to plants by gender
would be rare and quaint and just for special effect; normally it
would be "it". Most people would not have heard of dioecy or would not
realise that male and female plants existed and would not refer to
such plants by gender.

But there is probably another layer to this. The use of he/she for an animal
usually indicates some affection for the animal. If you were bitten by a
male snake in a forest, you wouldn't say "he bit me". Also, things we don't
like to think of, such as a fetus, is referred to as "it".

"johannes" wrote in message
. ..

... Also, things we don't
like to think of, such as a fetus, is referred to as "it".

Things we don't like to think of?

I've never known a woman say she's having a foetus ...

Mary

In article ,
johannes writes:
|
| But there is probably another layer to this. The use of he/she for an animal
| usually indicates some affection for the animal. If you were bitten by a
| male snake in a forest, you wouldn't say "he bit me". Also, things we don't
| like to think of, such as a fetus, is referred to as "it".

You are sounding just like a troll. An American troll, too.

That is utter drivel. In normal English, "he" and "she" are normally
used when the sex is relevant or there is some traditional associated
sex (e.g. ships). Where the sex is irrelevant or unknown, the word
"he" is traditionally used for adult humans (now being diluted by the
political correctness dogmatists), and "it" otherwise. A child of
indeterminate and irrelevant gender is traditionally "it".

In German, "child" and "girl" are both neuter. So what?

Anyway, this has essentially damn-all relevance to gardening.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
johannes writes:
|
| But there is probably another layer to this. The use of he/she for an
animal
| usually indicates some affection for the animal. If you were bitten by
a
| male snake in a forest, you wouldn't say "he bit me". Also, things we
don't
| like to think of, such as a fetus, is referred to as "it".

You are sounding just like a troll. An American troll, too.

That is utter drivel. In normal English, "he" and "she" are normally
used when the sex is relevant or there is some traditional associated
sex (e.g. ships). Where the sex is irrelevant or unknown, the word
"he" is traditionally used for adult humans (now being diluted by the
political correctness dogmatists), and "it" otherwise. A child of
indeterminate and irrelevant gender is traditionally "it".

In German, "child" and "girl" are both neuter. So what?

Anyway, this has essentially damn-all relevance to gardening.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Here here, who gives a monkeys

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
johannes writes:
|
| But there is probably another layer to this. The use of he/she for an animal
| usually indicates some affection for the animal. If you were bitten by a
| male snake in a forest, you wouldn't say "he bit me". Also, things we don't
| like to think of, such as a fetus, is referred to as "it".

You are sounding just like a troll. An American troll, too.

No not an American. Possibly a troll.

That is utter drivel. In normal English, "he" and "she" are normally
used when the sex is relevant or there is some traditional associated
sex (e.g. ships). Where the sex is irrelevant or unknown, the word
"he" is traditionally used for adult humans (now being diluted by the
political correctness dogmatists), and "it" otherwise. A child of
indeterminate and irrelevant gender is traditionally "it".

Yes, you have put your finger on it. I suspect that the PC newscaster was
concerned about not offending the beetle.

In German, "child" and "girl" are both neuter. So what?

Quite so.

Anyway, this has essentially damn-all relevance to gardening.

For which I apologise.

"Des Higgins" wrote in message
...
On Jun 8, 12:13 pm, johannes wrote:
Des Higgins wrote:

On Jun 8, 9:35 am, johannes wrote:
This may be more appropriate for the English language section, but
perhaps
gardeners also have animals. Such animal lovers will affectionately
refer
to their pets as a he or she. However, I have noticed that this use of
language
has increasingly become standard English, e.g. BBC news. I recently
saw a BBC
news story where a beetle was referred to as "he". How far down this
road is
this going to go? What about fleas, bacteria etc. Oddly enough, a
fetus is
referred to is "it".

Beetles do have clear gender biologically and in some cases the
genders are clearly different looking. In that case, it is possible
that the gender of the beetle was clear and then the use of "he" would
be apropriate. For example, male stag beetles have huge "antlers".
If the gender was not clear, however, then it sounds silly.

But some plants also have clear biologically. I am not clever, just looked
it
up in wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexuality

"Androecious - plants producing male flowers only, produce pollen but no
seeds, the
male plants of a Dioecious species."

"Gynoecious - plants producing female flowers only, produces seeds but no
pollen,
the female of a Dioecious species. In some plant species or populations
all
individuals are gynoecious with non sexual reproduction used to produce
the next
generation."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ok, for common usage, referring to insects (or spiders) as "he" or
"Lshe" is unusual but not unheard of. Usually it would be "it".
Referring to mammals as "he" or "she" would be quite common if you
knew the gender (especially for pets). Referring to plants by gender
would be rare and quaint and just for special effect; normally it
would be "it". Most people would not have heard of dioecy or would not
realise that male and female plants existed and would not refer to
such plants by gender.

I keep Indian stick insects, and they are all "she" for there is no male
among them. I've had them for about 15 years and they all produce eggs
that look like little barrels with corks in them. There are no males, males
appear to be redundant in this insect.

someone

Des Higgins writes

ok, for common usage, referring to insects (or spiders) as "he" or
"she" is unusual but not unheard of. Usually it would be "it".
Referring to mammals as "he" or "she" would be quite common if you
knew the gender (especially for pets). Referring to plants by gender
would be rare and quaint and just for special effect; normally it
would be "it". Most people would not have heard of dioecy or would not
realise that male and female plants existed and would not refer to
such plants by gender.

People will often use 'he' or 'she' for an animal to express endearment,
eg when watching the antics of a particularly handsome spider. People
tend not to do the same for plants, since few people regard plants as
having a mind in the same way that an animal does.

--
Kay

K wrote:

Des Higgins writes

ok, for common usage, referring to insects (or spiders) as "he" or
"she" is unusual but not unheard of. Usually it would be "it".
Referring to mammals as "he" or "she" would be quite common if you
knew the gender (especially for pets). Referring to plants by gender
would be rare and quaint and just for special effect; normally it
would be "it". Most people would not have heard of dioecy or would not
realise that male and female plants existed and would not refer to
such plants by gender.

People will often use 'he' or 'she' for an animal to express endearment,
eg when watching the antics of a particularly handsome spider. People
tend not to do the same for plants, since few people regard plants as
having a mind in the same way that an animal does.

--
Kay

Strange that in French and Italian language, everything is he/she.

johannes writes


K wrote:

Des Higgins writes

ok, for common usage, referring to insects (or spiders) as "he" or
"she" is unusual but not unheard of. Usually it would be "it".
Referring to mammals as "he" or "she" would be quite common if you
knew the gender (especially for pets). Referring to plants by gender
would be rare and quaint and just for special effect; normally it
would be "it". Most people would not have heard of dioecy or would not
realise that male and female plants existed and would not refer to
such plants by gender.

People will often use 'he' or 'she' for an animal to express endearment,
eg when watching the antics of a particularly handsome spider. People
tend not to do the same for plants, since few people regard plants as
having a mind in the same way that an animal does.

--
Kay

Strange that in French and Italian language, everything is he/she.

Not particularly strange, since both are derived from Latin which has
genders for everything, although Latin also has neuter (which does not
at all match up with things we'd describe as 'it')
--
Kay

Strange that in French and Italian language, everything is
he/she.

Not particularly strange, since both are derived from Latin
which has genders for everything, although Latin also has
neuter (which does not at all match up with things we'd
describe as 'it')

And English is derived from Germanic, which also has genders
which don't match up. In fact I think English is just about the
only European language which doesn't have genders for all nouns.
So it's actually English which is strange, not French and
Italian.

The Old OakTree wrote:

Strange that in French and Italian language, everything is
he/she.

Not particularly strange, since both are derived from Latin
which has genders for everything, although Latin also has
neuter (which does not at all match up with things we'd
describe as 'it')

And English is derived from Germanic, which also has genders
which don't match up. In fact I think English is just about the
only European language which doesn't have genders for all nouns.
So it's actually English which is strange, not French and
Italian.

You forgot my own native language. There is no gender for nouns in
my language, however, there are two types of nouns; those which can
use "den" and those which can use "det" as pronouns. Mix them up at
your peril! There is no system whatsoever, but making a mistake is
a dead giveaway that you're not a native of the country.