I have a small stream about 3ft wide, that dries up in mid summer, but
can be a raging torrent in winter up to 2ft deep.

The bank sides are approx 40 deg sloping, and made of builders rubble
and soil.

The stream bed looks like it just builders rubble.

Over the years the banks have started to be undercut with the water,
and then the bank gives way. So the stream is getting wider and the
banks are getting steeper.

Access is very limited and there is no chance of getting any machinery
in, except hand tools.

Any ideas on the best way, and cheapest of trying to stop this
errosion.

On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:33:30 +0100, dutchman
wrote:

I have a small stream about 3ft wide, that dries up in mid summer, but
can be a raging torrent in winter up to 2ft deep.

The bank sides are approx 40 deg sloping, and made of builders rubble
and soil.

The stream bed looks like it just builders rubble.

Over the years the banks have started to be undercut with the water,
and then the bank gives way. So the stream is getting wider and the
banks are getting steeper.

Access is very limited and there is no chance of getting any machinery
in, except hand tools.

Any ideas on the best way, and cheapest of trying to stop this
errosion.


I'd have a peek upstream to see what other people have done too - if
it's got worse (and just to be nosey)
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

"dutchman" wrote in message
...
I have a small stream about 3ft wide, that dries up in mid summer, but
can be a raging torrent in winter up to 2ft deep.

The bank sides are approx 40 deg sloping, and made of builders rubble
and soil.

The stream bed looks like it just builders rubble.

Over the years the banks have started to be undercut with the water,
and then the bank gives way. So the stream is getting wider and the
banks are getting steeper.

Access is very limited and there is no chance of getting any machinery
in, except hand tools.

Any ideas on the best way, and cheapest of trying to stop this
errosion.


It "might" be the Water Authority's responsibility to do something about it.
Have you checked? If it is, you get it done for free.

"'Mike'" wrote in message
...

"dutchman" wrote in message
...
I have a small stream about 3ft wide, that dries up in mid summer, but
can be a raging torrent in winter up to 2ft deep.

The bank sides are approx 40 deg sloping, and made of builders rubble
and soil.

The stream bed looks like it just builders rubble.

Over the years the banks have started to be undercut with the water,
and then the bank gives way. So the stream is getting wider and the
banks are getting steeper.

Access is very limited and there is no chance of getting any machinery
in, except hand tools.

Any ideas on the best way, and cheapest of trying to stop this
errosion.


It "might" be the Water Authority's responsibility to do something about
it. Have you checked? If it is, you get it done for free.

If you intend doing any work on a watercourse you need to involve - and
probably get permission from - the Environment Agency. As they're dealing
with this type of problem all the time they would anyway be a useful source
of advice and expertise. Flood Defence is probably a good department to
start off with.

"Bald eagle" wrote in message
...

If you intend doing any work on a watercourse you need to involve - and
probably get permission from - the Environment Agency. As they're dealing
with this type of problem all the time they would anyway be a useful
source of advice and expertise. Flood Defence is probably a good
department to start off with.


I am not sure about Flood defence in this case !
If you contact the E.A. they will tell you if the stream is registered with
them.
We had a problem with our stream and the E.A. could only advise - not
physically help as it is not "one of theirs".
If the "unregistered" stream is on the boundary between two landowners then
it is up to the "riparian " owners to sort it between themselves.

Regards
Pete
www.thecanalshop.com

On 4/9/08 12:17, in article , "Pete
Stockdale" wrote:


"Bald eagle" wrote in message
...

If you intend doing any work on a watercourse you need to involve - and
probably get permission from - the Environment Agency. As they're dealing
with this type of problem all the time they would anyway be a useful
source of advice and expertise. Flood Defence is probably a good
department to start off with.


I am not sure about Flood defence in this case !
If you contact the E.A. they will tell you if the stream is registered with
them.
We had a problem with our stream and the E.A. could only advise - not
physically help as it is not "one of theirs".
If the "unregistered" stream is on the boundary between two landowners then
it is up to the "riparian " owners to sort it between themselves.

Regards
Pete
www.thecanalshop.com


If it's anything to do with the council mentioned in yesterday's papers,
they won't be 'wellie trained' so they won't be allowed to get into the
stream..........

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

Your right on that, as its in a new housing estate. Whereby both banks
come with the property.

Ones of the problems is that the stream was diverted, so they could
built moew houses. But my bets are the stream is trying to get back
to its original course.

It looks like as the most cost effective option is to use wooden
stakes every 750mm and then board up at he back, and rock infill
behind it and the bank. I am told that heavy vaccum tanalised timbers
will last over 10 years.



If the "unregistered" stream is on the boundary between two landowners then
it is up to the "riparian " owners to sort it between themselves.

Regards
Pete
www.thecanalshop.com

"dutchman" wrote in message
...
Your right on that, as its in a new housing estate. Whereby both banks
come with the property.

Ones of the problems is that the stream was diverted, so they could
built moew houses. But my bets are the stream is trying to get back
to its original course.

It looks like as the most cost effective option is to use wooden
stakes every 750mm and then board up at he back, and rock infill
behind it and the bank. I am told that heavy vaccum tanalised timbers
will last over 10 years.




I would use the pointed angle iron fencing posts, backed by good chain link
fencing, then back filled with rocks. For this, you might find a demolition
taking place where large manageable chucks of concrete could be obtained.
They would last longer with regards to erosion and the limited power even a
torrent would have in trying to dislodge them.

Wooden stakes and boarding will as you realise rot and then the backfill
would be exposed and again washed away

Just a few thoughts. Water is funny stuff AND powerful

I would use the pointed angle iron fencing posts, backed by good chain link
fencing, then back filled with rocks. For this, you might find a demolition
taking place where large manageable chucks of concrete could be obtained.
They would last longer with regards to erosion and the limited power even a
torrent would have in trying to dislodge them.

Wooden stakes and boarding will as you realise rot and then the backfill
would be exposed and again washed away


I have noticed on another river the 'council' have used coir rolls ( a
bit like long sausages) resting upon willow faggot rolls. All with
wood posts at intervals, to hold it all back.

I would have thought that that would have only lasted 2 or 3 years,
and washed away.

Whereas I am being told if you use vaccum tanalised timber they could
last over 10 year.

How long would steel last in water ??? unless it was heavily painted
or stainless, in which case it would proably get knicked round here.
And what size crosssection for the steel

Just a few thoughts. Water is funny stuff AND powerful

"dutchman" wrote in message
...


I would use the pointed angle iron fencing posts, backed by good chain
link
fencing, then back filled with rocks. For this, you might find a
demolition
taking place where large manageable chucks of concrete could be obtained.
They would last longer with regards to erosion and the limited power even
a
torrent would have in trying to dislodge them.

Wooden stakes and boarding will as you realise rot and then the backfill
would be exposed and again washed away


I have noticed on another river the 'council' have used coir rolls ( a
bit like long sausages) resting upon willow faggot rolls. All with
wood posts at intervals, to hold it all back.

I would have thought that that would have only lasted 2 or 3 years,
and washed away.

Whereas I am being told if you use vaccum tanalised timber they could
last over 10 year.

How long would steel last in water ??? unless it was heavily painted
or stainless, in which case it would proably get knicked round here.
And what size crosssection for the steel

Just a few thoughts. Water is funny stuff AND powerful



The stake I have in mind is a chain link supporting stake, about 40 mm Angle
Iron, pointed and with holes in it for strainer wires. Last for years. I
would be inclined to lean them back at an angle of about 30 degrees and
drive them into the river/stream bed so the top is just below your normal
level. Chain link to straining wires through the holes, (which will be like
trying to paper a ceiling because of the leaning back) and then back fill
with the largest lumps of 'stuff' at the bottom and work up.

A job to do next summer when/IF, the stream dries out ;-)

In article ,
dutchman writes:
|
| I would use the pointed angle iron fencing posts, backed by good chain link
| fencing, then back filled with rocks. ...
|
| Wooden stakes and boarding will as you realise rot and then the backfill
| would be exposed and again washed away
|
| I have noticed on another river the 'council' have used coir rolls ( a
| bit like long sausages) resting upon willow faggot rolls. All with
| wood posts at intervals, to hold it all back.
|
| I would have thought that that would have only lasted 2 or 3 years,
| and washed away.

Well, the faggots that Ely cathedral were built on have lasted for a
good few centuries!

What people don't understand nowadays is that most heartwood won't rot
if it is EITHER waterlogged OR dry. It is attacked primarily by fungi
that need gaseous oxygen to reproduce. Sapwood is another matter,
as it contains enough sugars to allow anaeobic decomposition. And
some vegetable products (like coir) have lignin but no sugars. That
is why posts rot fast at the soil boundary, and much less below and
above it.

If you wander around the country, you can often see wooden spiling
that is largely intact and over a century old. But you have to do
it right, which means using appropriate materials for the conditions.

| Whereas I am being told if you use vaccum tanalised timber they could
| last over 10 year.

They will.

| How long would steel last in water ??? unless it was heavily painted
| or stainless, in which case it would proably get knicked round here.
| And what size crosssection for the steel

It has similar properties to wood, in that it will rust fastest at the
water boundary. It depends a lot on the type of water (i.e. mineral
content) - in most fresh waters, it will last quite a long time - in
some others (e.g. sea water), next to no time.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from dutchman contains these words:

Your right on that, as its in a new housing estate. Whereby both banks
come with the property.

Ones of the problems is that the stream was diverted, so they could
built moew houses. But my bets are the stream is trying to get back
to its original course.

It looks like as the most cost effective option is to use wooden
stakes every 750mm and then board up at he back, and rock infill
behind it and the bank. I am told that heavy vaccum tanalised timbers
will last over 10 years.

Planting willows would be cheaper and better - and if you plant the
right ones (osiers) you can harvest them and flog them to
basket-makers...

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

The message
from dutchman contains these words:

Whereas I am being told if you use vaccum tanalised timber they could
last over 10 year.

You might find yourself in trouble using tanalised wood in a watercourse.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:
The message
from dutchman contains these words:

Whereas I am being told if you use vaccum tanalised timber they could
last over 10 year.

You might find yourself in trouble using tanalised wood in a
watercourse.

Indeed. They will leach toxic stuff into the water, threatening aquatic
wildlife.
--
Pete C
London UK