"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
"The alert is mainly about a substance called aminopryalid in an
agricultural herbicide called Forefront - although similar substances may
be
causing similar effects.


Compost manure before using for trees with composted wood chips and leaves
and needles.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.

Like John A. Keslick, Jr!

Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and
other abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

"D. Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...

"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "symplastless" contains these words:

Compost manure before using for trees with composted wood chips and
leaves
and needles.

A?

A bit of punctuation might help the above to make sense.

--
Rusty


That's the best you get from the yard boy.

Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Mr. Yard Boy to you Don Staples, you know how we do things around here.
Remember, there is nothing a matter with being a yard boy especially when
you have a back ground in tree biology. Now claiming to be a consulting
forester and defining a forest as a single stand or group of trees under one
or more ownerships is silly to say the least. Not having a clue as to mulch
chemistry in a forest and claiming to be a consulting forester is fraud.
That means if I put two small trees in a trash can, I have created a forest.
That's your words and not mine.

We need pre-forester like pre-med with tree biology being a must! BTW my
definition of a forest is in my dictionary. You don't have to agree but you
will know what I mean.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.


Looks like Texas is getting restoration as you define it. very sad.

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"D. Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...

"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "symplastless" contains these words:

Compost manure before using for trees with composted wood chips and
leaves
and needles.

A?

A bit of punctuation might help the above to make sense.

--
Rusty


That's the best you get from the yard boy.

Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Mr. Yard Boy to you Don Staples, you know how we do things around here.
Remember, there is nothing a matter with being a yard boy especially when
you have a back ground in tree biology. Now claiming to be a consulting
forester and defining a forest as a single stand or group of trees under
one or more ownerships is silly to say the least. Not having a clue as to
mulch chemistry in a forest and claiming to be a consulting forester is
fraud. That means if I put two small trees in a trash can, I have created
a forest. That's your words and not mine.

We need pre-forester like pre-med with tree biology being a must! BTW my
definition of a forest is in my dictionary. You don't have to agree but
you will know what I mean.

Blow it out your ass, yard boy. You never touched biology, at any level,
you were a saw hand for Shigo for 58 days, the limit of your
"professionalism" is pimping Shigo.

The message
from "symplastless" contains these words:


"D. Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...

"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "symplastless" contains these words:

Compost manure before using for trees with composted wood chips and
leaves
and needles.

A?

A bit of punctuation might help the above to make sense.

--
Rusty


That's the best you get from the yard boy.

Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Mr. Yard Boy to you Don Staples, you know how we do things around here.
Remember, there is nothing a matter with being a yard boy especially when
you have a back ground in tree biology. Now claiming to be a consulting
forester and defining a forest as a single stand or group of trees
under one
or more ownerships is silly to say the least. Not having a clue as to
mulch
chemistry in a forest and claiming to be a consulting forester is fraud.
That means if I put two small trees in a trash can, I have created a
forest.
That's your words and not mine.

We need pre-forester like pre-med with tree biology being a must! BTW my
definition of a forest is in my dictionary. You don't have to agree
but you
will know what I mean.

And you can't even read headers.

This is probably because of the pig's ear you make of cutting and quoting.

Now go and do some unravelling and see exactly who said what...

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

On Sep 11, 3:45*am, "gunner" wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in ...

Mine too. *Bloody good stuff is horse poo, but the Brits have had problems
with weed killers spread on pastures contaminating the poos - it's then
gone on to kill plants in gardens. *I don't have this problem in my
country and it appears that the worst thing to do with the weedkiller
infested British horse poo is to pile it and try to 'age' it - the poison
apparently doesn't break down going that route but does if spread.

What poison is it?

On our plots, Manchester UK, it was an herbicide call Aminopyralid
introduced by Dow Chemicals a few years ago to treat broad leaved
weeds in commercial crops. The herbicide binds strongly to plant
material which when grazed by or fed to cattle and horses in
feedstuffs such as silage or hay can pass through the animals without
breaking down. We've been advised to rotavate or dig over the soil
several times between summer and autumn when the soil is warm. The
contamination is widespread here - seen in Scotland, Wakefield and
Cornwall.

Luckily I was on holidays when we got a load - I was upset I had
missed it. Not any more!! The RHS wrote to us advising us to 'scrape
off' any loose manure! What a shame ...

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:31:52 +0000, Dee wrote:

Ed ex@directory wrote in
net:

First time allotment holder, seeking advice...


The local riding stables have left a whole big load of horse
manure outside of our allotment site for folk to use. It is
pretty fresh (great strong pong from it) and it contains only a
moderate amount of straw.

Notwithstanding the warnings I have seen on this list and
elsewhere regarding contamination with weed killers and the like,
how can I beneficially use this stuff?

Can I use this manure straight away on the beds in my plot as a
top mulch and dig it in next spring? Or should I just add it to
my compost bins and let it mature there for, say, a year and then
use it?

Also which plants would benefit from an application of manure? I
seem to recall that root crops don't like recently manured beds?

Ed

Fresh manure can be used as a top mulch, but IME it's very important
to make sure the manure does not directly touch any plants, as it
will cause problems (burning, stunting) otherwise. Top mulching of
the manure allows rain water to seep through it and down to the roots
of the plants, effectively giving them 'manure tea', while the
wormies go to work incorporating it into the soil. It may be that by
next spring there will be nothing left to turn under into the soil,
as the worms will have done it for you. That has been my experience,
anyway.

Dee

Yes, only very well rotted (crumbly soil type) compost should be
used with root crops.

If fresh it does need to be kept away from plant leaves and stems as
others have said. Though another reason is possible e.coli infection.
Because of the latter I'd keep it well away from leaf vegetables that
aren't cooked eg lettuce. That's not root contact, but leaf contact.
Horse mature does have a reputation for being full of weed seeds btw
if the horses are often grazing in a field. Cow poo much less so.
If it does have seeds in it, only a hot running compost heap will
destroy (most) of them. A quicker way to compost is just to dig a
trench and bury it. If you've a patch that is not being used that is.
A part that you would like to plant beans on will work well. Come the
spring the manure will be well rotted by soil microbes and spread
about by worms. And it will smell far less. Weed seeds are less likely
to germinate as they get no light. Direct to the soil, either on top
or under will allow more nutrients to get into the soil. In a compost
heap either the heat breaks them down, or they leech out the bottom.
Not all but quite a bit.

Whilst not really the traditional time of year for this, you could
try making a 'hot bed'. Normally in greenhouse borders or cold
frames, a cloche might work fairly well. You dig a trench 12"+ deep.
Put a deep layer of fresh manure into it and cover with 6 inches of
soil. The heat from the decomposing manure warms the soil from below.
Normally done Feb/March to get a head start on the growing season. You
could experiment to see if it will extend the autumn season for some
of the salad crops. It won't provide enough heat to prevent a hard
frost even under a cloche as it's warming the roots rather than the
tops, but might speed their growth before the weather gets cold and
stays that way. Some lettuce, rocket and spinach are frost hardy, they
might crop even better with slightly warmer soil.

Nigel

..
"tony newton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:31:52 +0000, Dee wrote:

Ed ex@directory wrote in
snet:

First time allotment holder, seeking advice...


The local riding stables have left a whole big load of horse
manure outside of our allotment site for folk to use. It is
pretty fresh (great strong pong from it) and it contains only a
moderate amount of straw.

Notwithstanding the warnings I have seen on this list and
elsewhere regarding contamination with weed killers and the like,
how can I beneficially use this stuff?

Can I use this manure straight away on the beds in my plot as a
top mulch and dig it in next spring? Or should I just add it to
my compost bins and let it mature there for, say, a year and then
use it?

Also which plants would benefit from an application of manure? I
seem to recall that root crops don't like recently manured beds?

Ed

Fresh manure can be used as a top mulch, but IME it's very important
to make sure the manure does not directly touch any plants, as it
will cause problems (burning, stunting) otherwise. Top mulching of
the manure allows rain water to seep through it and down to the roots
of the plants, effectively giving them 'manure tea', while the
wormies go to work incorporating it into the soil. It may be that by
next spring there will be nothing left to turn under into the soil,
as the worms will have done it for you. That has been my experience,
anyway.

Dee

Yes, only very well rotted (crumbly soil type) compost should be
used with root crops.

If fresh it does need to be kept away from plant leaves and stems as
others have said. Though another reason is possible e.coli infection.
Because of the latter I'd keep it well away from leaf vegetables that
aren't cooked eg lettuce. That's not root contact, but leaf contact.
Horse mature does have a reputation for being full of weed seeds btw
if the horses are often grazing in a field. Cow poo much less so.
If it does have seeds in it, only a hot running compost heap will
destroy (most) of them. A quicker way to compost is just to dig a
trench and bury it. If you've a patch that is not being used that is.
A part that you would like to plant beans on will work well. Come the
spring the manure will be well rotted by soil microbes and spread
about by worms. And it will smell far less. Weed seeds are less likely
to germinate as they get no light. Direct to the soil, either on top
or under will allow more nutrients to get into the soil. In a compost
heap either the heat breaks them down, or they leech out the bottom.
Not all but quite a bit.

Whilst not really the traditional time of year for this, you could
try making a 'hot bed'. Normally in greenhouse borders or cold
frames, a cloche might work fairly well. You dig a trench 12"+ deep.
Put a deep layer of fresh manure into it and cover with 6 inches of
soil. The heat from the decomposing manure warms the soil from below.
Normally done Feb/March to get a head start on the growing season. You
could experiment to see if it will extend the autumn season for some
of the salad crops. It won't provide enough heat to prevent a hard
frost even under a cloche as it's warming the roots rather than the
tops, but might speed their growth before the weather gets cold and
stays that way. Some lettuce, rocket and spinach are frost hardy, they
might crop even better with slightly warmer soil.

Nigel

Mother Earth News has an article about this very subject in their
current issue.

Linky:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ...en-Threat.aspx

If in doubt, ask the farmer/rancher if any pesticides were used in
their pastures.

Cheers!




On Sep 11, 1:13*am, Sacha wrote:
On 11/9/08 03:45, in article
s, "gunner"



wrote:

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Dee" wrote in message

Fresh manure can be used as a top mulch, but IME it's very important
to make sure the manure does not directly touch any plants, as it
will cause problems (burning, stunting) otherwise. *Top mulching of
the manure allows rain water to seep through it and down to the roots
of the plants, effectively giving them 'manure tea', while the
wormies go to work incorporating it into the soil. *It may be that by
next spring there will be nothing left to turn under into the soil,
as the worms will have done it for you. *That has been my experience,
anyway.

Mine too. *Bloody good stuff is horse poo, but the Brits have had problems
with weed killers spread on pastures contaminating the poos - it's then
gone on to kill plants in gardens. *I don't have this problem in my
country and it appears that the worst thing to do with the weedkiller
infested British horse poo is to pile it and try to 'age' it - the poison
apparently doesn't break down going that route but does if spread.
What poison is it?

"The alert is mainly about a substance called aminopryalid in an
agricultural herbicide called Forefront - although similar substances may be
causing similar effects.

It is a new kind of "hormonal herbicide" * meaning it interferes with the
growth signals of broad-leaved plants like dandelions and docks, so they
shoot up too fast and starve, while the surrounding grass is unaffected.

It has been declared safe to graze cows on treated grass, or on hay and
silage made from treated meadows. The herbicide passes through their systems
more or less undigested. But that means it is present in their manure and
gets into their bedding straw too.

The packaging of Forefront includes warnings about not using affected manure
and straw on vulnerable plants *including tomatoes, potatoes, peas, beans,
carrots, lettuce, delphiniums, phlox and roses. But the warning is not
always passed on.

Forefront was launched three years ago and Britain was the first European
country to use it. Last year, some professional potato growers lost crops
after spreading manure. An emergency education campaign, aimed at livestock
farmers, vegetable growers and spraying and spreading contractors solved
that problem."

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/...er-manure-pois...
491.jp
--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

I live in the US in Iowa.

Farmers here generally use pig manure which smells just god awful but
seems to always work efficiently for them... at my work we have cow
manure in bags which people find affective.