On 4/1/09 19:12, in article
, "Judith
in France" wrote:

On Jan 4, 5:14*pm, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:42:52 +0000, Tom Withycombe
wrote:
In message , Martin
writes
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:06:41 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 4/1/09 12:15, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:52:07 +0000, Gopher wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
I've had a tantalising catalogue fromwww.seedsofitaly.com* For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking
things in it.

I buy Italian seeds for much of my veg now. Not only do they seem to
provide a better percentage of germination but, in my experience, they
also give a lot more seeds per packet. And the cropping is excellent.
French beans, celeriac, tomatoes, red onions (esp. San Marzano and
Costoluto Fiorentino) and a couple of others have proved superb. The
tomatoes which, when used to make a sauce, provide a wonderful flavour ;
I was told by an Italian friend in Le Marche that one must never cut
toms when adding to sauce, but rather squash them by hand. Boy, does
that improve the flavour!!

I normally buy seeds during my regular visits to Italy - they are
cheaper there than the same seeds bought in the UK [which appeals to my
Scottish nature :-))..] but one has to be careful not to buy ones which
require climatic conditions which the UK cannot guarantee. It's worth a
little research before travelling. Funnily enough, I also acquire
certain seeds in Italy for my small wildflower meadow .... and they
seems to do well too.

Viva sementi d'Italia!!

Judging from the appearances of Italian house gardens and the
results achieved
by Italians with allotments, they are neither *most enthusiastic nor
knowledgeable gardeners.

But the Italians have a long history of growing food in their 'orto' and
gathering it from the wild, which some do to this day. *There's even a
Madonna dell' Orto. * *I'm quite surprised to read this, Martin because I
must admit that my impression is different. *I think their ornamental
gardens are quite different to ours so perhaps we can't compare the two.

Take a look at almost any Italian house garden and you will find it
unscarred
after.

However, their love food and good, high quality fresh ingredients usually
leads to good stuff either grown at home or sold in markets, IME.

They are pain in the butt as far as my wife is concerned. They take
over a clean
weed free allotment garden, lose interest after a few weeks and hand it
back
overgrown with weeds. Basically they don't seem to realise that work is
involved
in producing vegetables.

And your butt obviously feels the same as that belonging to your Senior
Management :-)). Very sensible - but you make a rather a sweeping
generalisation. You (or SM) can possibly cite one or two specific
examples .... but can you, Martin, with hand on heart, categorically
state that the great garden-loving, veggie-growing British public are
not prey to the same fallibility.... even occasionally? I'm afraid that
my hat is in the ring alongside that of your friend Sacha, on this
occasion.

Creep! LOL



Regardless .... a very HNY to both of you!!!

My wife is the secretary of a gardening club/allotment with members from all
over Europe. After 20 years in the club, so far only the Italians
consistently
fail to produce. I spent half my working life in Italy.

The British, Belgian, French and German gardeners are the most productive in
the
club. The Italian women are the best dressed,
--

Martin

They certainly are. Edward was working in Parma Hospital years ago
and I joined him for about 3 weeks, I felt like the hick up from the
country. The French women do not come anywhere near them for chic.

Judith

That's because Italian women dress up to the minute BUT to their own style,
not to what fashion dictates. It's a different approach but both work.
Frenchwomen are particularly aware of things like fashions in hairstyles and
are always beautifully groomed - sweeping generalisation alert! Italian
women tend to keep their hair as it suits *them* and do brilliant things
with accessories and are well groomed, too. It's attention to detail and
paring everything down to the minimum that works so well. Carla Bruni was
dressed by Dior in London but look at how she worked it!
Maybe that's their approach to gardening - less is more? ;-))

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

On 4/1/09 21:32, in article , "Pete C"
wrote:



Sacha wrote:
I've had a tantalising catalogue from www.seedsofitaly.com For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking things
in it.
Mmmm, looks very interesting. I know I must order seeds soon, but from
where? The choice is mind numbing!

Well, I'm going to order some from these people for ourselves.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

On 4/1/09 22:08, in article
, "Judith in
France" wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:50*pm, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0800 (PST), Judith in France



wrote:
On Jan 4, 5:14*pm, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:42:52 +0000, Tom Withycombe
wrote:
In message , Martin
writes
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:06:41 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 4/1/09 12:15, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:52:07 +0000, Gopher wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
I've had a tantalising catalogue fromwww.seedsofitaly.com*For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking
things in it.

I buy Italian seeds for much of my veg now. Not only do they seem to
provide a better percentage of germination but, in my experience, they
also give a lot more seeds per packet. And the cropping is excellent.
French beans, celeriac, tomatoes, red onions (esp. San Marzano and
Costoluto Fiorentino) and a couple of others have proved superb. The
tomatoes which, when used to make a sauce, provide a wonderful flavour
;
I was told by an Italian friend in Le Marche that one must never cut
toms when adding to sauce, but rather squash them by hand. Boy, does
that improve the flavour!!

I normally buy seeds during my regular visits to Italy - they are
cheaper there than the same seeds bought in the UK [which appeals to
my
Scottish nature :-))..] but one has to be careful not to buy ones
which
require climatic conditions which the UK cannot guarantee. It's worth
a
little research before travelling. Funnily enough, I also acquire
certain seeds in Italy for my small wildflower meadow .... and they
seems to do well too.

Viva sementi d'Italia!!

Judging from the appearances of Italian house gardens and the
results achieved
by Italians with allotments, they are neither *most enthusiastic nor
knowledgeable gardeners.

But the Italians have a long history of growing food in their 'orto' and
gathering it from the wild, which some do to this day. *There's even a
Madonna dell' Orto. * *I'm quite surprised to read this, Martin because
I
must admit that my impression is different. *I think their ornamental
gardens are quite different to ours so perhaps we can't compare the two.

Take a look at almost any Italian house garden and you will find it
unscarred
after.

However, their love food and good, high quality fresh ingredients
usually
leads to good stuff either grown at home or sold in markets, IME.

They are pain in the butt as far as my wife is concerned. They take
over a clean
weed free allotment garden, lose interest after a few weeks and hand it
back
overgrown with weeds. Basically they don't seem to realise that work is
involved
in producing vegetables.

And your butt obviously feels the same as that belonging to your Senior
Management :-)). Very sensible - but you make a rather a sweeping
generalisation. You (or SM) can possibly cite one or two specific
examples .... but can you, Martin, with hand on heart, categorically
state that the great garden-loving, veggie-growing British public are
not prey to the same fallibility.... even occasionally? I'm afraid that
my hat is in the ring alongside that of your friend Sacha, on this
occasion.

Creep! LOL

Regardless .... a very HNY to both of you!!!

My wife is the secretary of a gardening club/allotment with members from
all
over Europe. After 20 years in the club, so far only the Italians
consistently
fail to produce. I spent half my working life in Italy.

The British, Belgian, French and German gardeners are the most productive
in the
club. The Italian women are the best dressed,
--

Martin

They certainly are. *Edward was working in Parma Hospital years ago
and I joined him for about 3 weeks, I felt like the hick up from the
country. *The French women do not come anywhere near them for chic.

That's very true. In general Italian women have better figures too or at
least
the ones who wear nice clothes do.

but there is a limit to what a normal female gardener wears when digging in
manure.
--

Martin

Oooh, I dunno, ask Sacha what I wear :-)

Judith

Apart from the gold slippers? I thought you were very elegant but looked
business like without being OTT. Perhaps Jaeger? I remember a well cut
skirt and shirt, certainly and a good hair do.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

On 4/1/09 22:09, in article
, "Judith
in France" wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:58*pm, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:17:42 -0800 (PST), Judith in France



wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:08*pm, wrote:
On Jan 4, 3:06*pm, Sacha wrote:

But the Italians have a long history of growing food in their 'orto' and
gathering it from the wild, which some do to this day. *There's even a
Madonna dell' Orto. * *I'm quite surprised to read this, Martin because I
must admit that my impression is different. *I think their ornamental
gardens are quite different to ours so perhaps we can't compare the two.
However, their love food and good, high quality fresh ingredients usually
leads to good stuff either grown at home or sold in markets, IME.

Here a photo I took last year in Napoli. Like Rose Prince said,
'Naples suburban gardens are planted with produce right up to the
front door. Italian children may not frolick on lawns, but they get to
eat the sweetest tomato sauce'. Happy dreams ;o)

http://cjoint.com/?bewZPFuA1g

The prices are cheaper there than in France. *The cost of food in
France has soared recently. *We had an awful year growing our veg, not
exactly sure why.

I haven't been into Naples, although I have been to Sorrento and Pompeii.
and have driven several times between Rome and Sorrento.

I have always tried to stay in small towns or villages when I had business
trips. In France & Germany I've always noticed gardens full of vegetables.
I can remember other people commenting on the lack of anything in house
gardens
around Rome and Turin. I used Google Street View to try and find nice house
gardens in Milan, I found one garden full of roses and that was it. My wife
and
I watched the programme about Palladio on BBC 4 this evening. Nice houses,
but
boring unimaginative gardens.
--

Martin

I have been to Naples and loved it especially the food. I didn't see
any gardens.

Judith

We skipped out of Naples pdq but saw some lovely gardens around Sorrento. I
don't remember many, if any in Turin but my ex's aunt lived just outside
that city and had a very pretty garden, although she wasn't terribly
knowledgeable from what I remember. She lived in Rivoli in a rather
countrified area - it's so long ago!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

On 4/1/09 23:27, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:08:30 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 4/1/09 22:09, in article
, "Judith
in France" wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:58*pm, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:17:42 -0800 (PST), Judith in France



wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:08*pm, wrote:
On Jan 4, 3:06*pm, Sacha wrote:

But the Italians have a long history of growing food in their 'orto' and
gathering it from the wild, which some do to this day. *There's even a
Madonna dell' Orto. * *I'm quite surprised to read this, Martin because
I
must admit that my impression is different. *I think their ornamental
gardens are quite different to ours so perhaps we can't compare the two.
However, their love food and good, high quality fresh ingredients
usually
leads to good stuff either grown at home or sold in markets, IME.

Here a photo I took last year in Napoli. Like Rose Prince said,
'Naples suburban gardens are planted with produce right up to the
front door. Italian children may not frolick on lawns, but they get to
eat the sweetest tomato sauce'. Happy dreams ;o)

http://cjoint.com/?bewZPFuA1g

The prices are cheaper there than in France. *The cost of food in
France has soared recently. *We had an awful year growing our veg, not
exactly sure why.

I haven't been into Naples, although I have been to Sorrento and Pompeii.
and have driven several times between Rome and Sorrento.

I have always tried to stay in small towns or villages when I had business
trips. In France & Germany I've always noticed gardens full of vegetables.
I can remember other people commenting on the lack of anything in house
gardens
around Rome and Turin. I used Google Street View to try and find nice house
gardens in Milan, I found one garden full of roses and that was it. My wife
and
I watched the programme about Palladio on BBC 4 this evening. Nice houses,
but
boring unimaginative gardens.
--

Martin

I have been to Naples and loved it especially the food. I didn't see
any gardens.

Judith

We skipped out of Naples pdq but saw some lovely gardens around Sorrento. I
don't remember many, if any in Turin but my ex's aunt lived just outside
that city and had a very pretty garden, although she wasn't terribly
knowledgeable from what I remember. She lived in Rivoli in a rather
countrified area - it's so long ago!

I think much of Rivoli has been covered in buildings since then. The old town
is
nice we used to go there for a drink or two after work. When I was in Turin, I
stayed in a hotel in a village about 15-20 miles north of Rivoli.

If I could remember her address I'd email you but she and her husband are
both dead and their son isn't in that area now. I remember we drove past
the Fiat (?) factory on the Corso Francia, I think, every time we went there
and that la Zia had fields around the house. She was terribly into rescuing
feral cats which is probably why her garden didn't get ALL her attention!
But all this was back in the early 70s so I would certainly expect big
changes. In fact, I do remember there was talk of her or my ex-mil, her
sister, buying some land round there but I just don't know that it ever
happened. However, to get back to our origins, my own small experience of
Italian veg gardeners is that they mostly take it very seriously, so I'm
sorry you've found that to be different. I could, perhaps, be that they're
disheartened by the hostile growing conditions they experience outside their
own country?!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

On 4/1/09 23:31, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:04:21 +0000, Sacha wrote:
snip

Oooh, I dunno, ask Sacha what I wear :-)

Judith

Apart from the gold slippers? I thought you were very elegant but looked
business like without being OTT. Perhaps Jaeger? I remember a well cut
skirt and shirt, certainly and a good hair do.

and she spreads pig muck dressed like that? )

Clearly you have not been paying attention to the tales of the gold
slippers!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

On 4/1/09 23:27, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:02:28 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 4/1/09 21:32, in article , "Pete C"
wrote:



Sacha wrote:
I've had a tantalising catalogue from www.seedsofitaly.com For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking things
in it.
Mmmm, looks very interesting. I know I must order seeds soon, but from
where? The choice is mind numbing!

Well, I'm going to order some from these people for ourselves.

Are they really an Italian company? They have no contact address in Italy.

http://www.franchisementi.it/


"By the time of the mutiny on the bounty in 1789, Giovanni Franchi was
already 6 years into his business of selling seeds around the market squares
of Parma from his horse drawn cart, and the company is still in the same
family 226 years later with Giampiero Franchi at the helm.
Franchi are the oldest family run seed company in the world and are much
more than just seeds in a packet * they are a story of tradition,
experience, quality, passion and excellence handed down over 7 generations
that continues today alongside state-of-the-art technological solutions.
Franchi themselves have sole responsibility for maintaining 70 important
varieties and most of our veg seed is commissioned, not bought in. The
farmer is given original Franchi stock seeds, is regularly visited and must
meet strict standards. An incredible 90% of our vegetable seeds are still
produced in Italy (many in their home regions still) and our seed is tested
rigorously, which is why our catalogue comes out in January."
http://www.seedsofitaly.com/


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Martin" typed:

There's more to vegetable gardening than tossing a
packet of seeds into the wind, whilst wearing an expensive dress. )

Hmmm, could be I'm in the wrong newsgroup then.... ;-)
--
Shaun.

In message , Martin
writes
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:02:28 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 4/1/09 21:32, in article , "Pete C"
wrote:



Sacha wrote:
I've had a tantalising catalogue from www.seedsofitaly.com For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking things
in it.
Mmmm, looks very interesting. I know I must order seeds soon, but from
where? The choice is mind numbing!

Well, I'm going to order some from these people for ourselves.

Are they really an Italian company? They have no contact address in Italy.

As someone with such a strong connection to Italy I am surprised you
have never heard of Franchi as seed producers. They are the Suttons of
Italy

--
Gopher .... I know my place!

On 5/1/09 00:20, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:12:53 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 4/1/09 23:27, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:02:28 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 4/1/09 21:32, in article , "Pete C"
wrote:



Sacha wrote:
I've had a tantalising catalogue from www.seedsofitaly.com For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking things
in it.
Mmmm, looks very interesting. I know I must order seeds soon, but from
where? The choice is mind numbing!

Well, I'm going to order some from these people for ourselves.

Are they really an Italian company? They have no contact address in Italy.

http://www.franchisementi.it/


"By the time of the mutiny on the bounty in 1789, Giovanni Franchi was
already 6 years into his business of selling seeds around the market squares
of Parma from his horse drawn cart, and the company is still in the same
family 226 years later with Giampiero Franchi at the helm.
Franchi are the oldest family run seed company in the world and are much
more than just seeds in a packet * they are a story of tradition,
experience, quality, passion and excellence handed down over 7 generations
that continues today alongside state-of-the-art technological solutions.
Franchi themselves have sole responsibility for maintaining 70 important
varieties and most of our veg seed is commissioned, not bought in. The
farmer is given original Franchi stock seeds, is regularly visited and must
meet strict standards. An incredible 90% of our vegetable seeds are still
produced in Italy (many in their home regions still) and our seed is tested
rigorously, which is why our catalogue comes out in January."
http://www.seedsofitaly.com/

I read that too. I take it they don't sell their stuff in Italy anymore or
market using a different company name?

snip

In Italy they're Franchi, their original name. I believe we bought some of
their seeds when we were in Florence a few years ago. AFAIK, they're a very
large, well-known firm. Probably Seeds of Italy is considered more likely
to appeal to a UK market because we associate Italy with good produce grown
in sunny conditions.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
(new website online)

In message , Martin
writes
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:40:36 +0000, Gopher wrote:

In message , Martin
writes
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:02:28 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 4/1/09 21:32, in article , "Pete C"
wrote:



Sacha wrote:
I've had a tantalising catalogue from www.seedsofitaly.com For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking things
in it.
Mmmm, looks very interesting. I know I must order seeds soon, but from
where? The choice is mind numbing!

Well, I'm going to order some from these people for ourselves.

Are they really an Italian company? They have no contact address in Italy.

As someone with such a strong connection to Italy I am surprised you
have never heard of Franchi as seed producers. They are the Suttons of
Italy

Suttons are French nowadays. )

So? ..... :-]]

--
Gopher .... I know my place!

In message , Martin
writes
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:13:22 +0000, Gopher wrote:

In message , Martin
writes
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:40:36 +0000, Gopher wrote:

In message , Martin
writes
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:02:28 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 4/1/09 21:32, in article , "Pete C"
wrote:



Sacha wrote:
I've had a tantalising catalogue from www.seedsofitaly.com For those
growing their own veg and herbs it has some delicious looking things
in it.
Mmmm, looks very interesting. I know I must order seeds soon, but from
where? The choice is mind numbing!

Well, I'm going to order some from these people for ourselves.

Are they really an Italian company? They have no contact address in Italy.

As someone with such a strong connection to Italy I am surprised you
have never heard of Franchi as seed producers. They are the Suttons of
Italy

Suttons are French nowadays. )

So? ..... :-]]

So rotten/excellent analogy? )

My connection with Italy was work, not gardening.

Mine too - mainly in Rimini, Milan Rome and Sardinia .... aaaahhhh
Sardinia! Felice anno nuovo :-))

--
Gopher .... I know my place!

Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Martin" typed:
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:26:05 +1300, "~misfit~"
wrote:

Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Martin" typed:

There's more to vegetable gardening than tossing a
packet of seeds into the wind, whilst wearing an expensive dress.
)

Hmmm, could be I'm in the wrong newsgroup then.... ;-)

LOL It's the dress that lets you down.

That's the last time I buy off-the-peg. g
--
Shaun.