This was the first rhodie to flower in my garden - finished about 3
weeks ago and now has a lot of new leaf.

Would a significant pruning, right now, mean sacrificing next year's
flowers? Or worse?

How about a moderate pruning?

On Sun, 31 May 2009 19:43:01 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 17:48:04 +0200, bob wrote:

This was the first rhodie to flower in my garden - finished about 3
weeks ago and now has a lot of new leaf.

Would a significant pruning, right now, mean sacrificing next year's
flowers? Or worse?

How about a moderate pruning?

Unless they've been seriously neglected over the years and got out of
hand, rhodies don't usually require pruning and are probably better
not pruned. But if you're hell-bent on it, they're best pruned in late
winter or early spring, preferably after the risk of severe frost has
passed. Cutting the flower heads for indoor decoration is quite a good
way of doing it, provided you cut with a view to it's future shape.

It's a bit late to hard prune now, as after pruning the dormant buds
in the woody stems have to break and then grow on, before setting
flower buds in late summer or early autumn. You might get away with
light pruning, but with hard pruning I would expect you to lose next
year's flowers. Be aware that hard pruning can sometimes kill a rhody;
some types will take it (e.g. the common purple R. ponticum), but
others may just give up. For light pruning, cut the stems just above a
rosette of leaves if you can, because that's where the new buds tend
to break from.

Ok - thanks for the detail. In the light of that I think I'll sit
this out until next spring.

But this starts to flower in mid-april (it's the first to appear in my
acid patch). So, if I've understood, it would be safest, for the
survival of the plant, to prune just before flowering even though this
will mean sacrificing flowers next year?

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 07:36:12 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 21:00:54 +0200, bob wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 19:43:01 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 17:48:04 +0200, bob wrote:

This was the first rhodie to flower in my garden - finished about 3
weeks ago and now has a lot of new leaf.

Would a significant pruning, right now, mean sacrificing next year's
flowers? Or worse?

How about a moderate pruning?

Unless they've been seriously neglected over the years and got out of
hand, rhodies don't usually require pruning and are probably better
not pruned. But if you're hell-bent on it, they're best pruned in late
winter or early spring, preferably after the risk of severe frost has
passed. Cutting the flower heads for indoor decoration is quite a good
way of doing it, provided you cut with a view to it's future shape.

It's a bit late to hard prune now, as after pruning the dormant buds
in the woody stems have to break and then grow on, before setting
flower buds in late summer or early autumn. You might get away with
light pruning, but with hard pruning I would expect you to lose next
year's flowers. Be aware that hard pruning can sometimes kill a rhody;
some types will take it (e.g. the common purple R. ponticum), but
others may just give up. For light pruning, cut the stems just above a
rosette of leaves if you can, because that's where the new buds tend
to break from.

Ok - thanks for the detail. In the light of that I think I'll sit
this out until next spring.

But this starts to flower in mid-april (it's the first to appear in my
acid patch). So, if I've understood, it would be safest, for the
survival of the plant, to prune just before flowering even though this
will mean sacrificing flowers next year?

Should be OK if you pruned while it was in flower, and enjoy the
flowers indoors.

That couldn't be clearer - much appreciated.

One further question, if you have time. What you would do, if
anything, to militate against a very alkaline mains water supply when
acid-lovers need water after a long dry spell? Unfortunately I
haven't yet got organised enough to have a rain-water butt.

Is there a straightforward additive/antidote to reduce pH?

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:13:04 +0200, bob wrote:

One further question, if you have time. What you would do, if
anything, to militate against a very alkaline mains water supply when
acid-lovers need water after a long dry spell? Unfortunately I
haven't yet got organised enough to have a rain-water butt.

Is there a straightforward additive/antidote to reduce pH?


I've just done a cursory search and I see a couple of homely remedies
in:-

1 tblspoon white vinegar /gall water
used tea bag/gall water

to be used once a month.

The vinegar solution had already occured to me although I wondered
about Sarson's malt and I had no idea what quantity. Not sure about
the tea-bag. I'd be surprised if there was much acidity to infuse in
a gallon of water if the bag has already done its stuff.

What do you think? And is this gallon of solution to be shared out
amongst several plants as a top-up or perhaps a gallon per plant?

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:14:53 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

Is there a straightforward additive/antidote to reduce pH?

Two approaches: water once with a solution of Sequestrine, a complexed
form of iron soluble at alkaline pH's and available in sachets from
garden centres, or if the plant is in the soil and not in a pot, add a
teaspoonful of vinegar to the watering can to acidify the water. You
can do this occasionally if the plant is in a pot, but the salts may
build up with repeated waterings as they don't get flushed away as
they would in the soil. Of course, the second approach only works when
using a can rather than a hose, but once you've used Sequestrine, you
can use the hose without worrying.

I'm in France at the moment and couldn't find Sequestrine (or sulphate
of ammonia, come to that), nor could I spot an equivalent product in
the garden centre here so I'll go with the vinegar for now until I get
back to the UK to pick up supplies.

Thanks again.

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:56:26 +0200, bob wrote:

I'm in France at the moment and couldn't find Sequestrine (or sulphate
of ammonia, come to that), nor could I spot an equivalent product in
the garden centre here so I'll go with the vinegar for now until I get
back to the UK to pick up supplies.

After a new search in my garden center I'm hoping what I've found
today is the approximately matching stuff in France - 'KB-anti
chlorose'. It's a powder, the bluish colour of a corroded copper
roof, and seems to have the principle ingredients soluble iron - 3%,
magnesium oxide - 16%.

It recommends a 10 grm dose in 2 litres of water for a single plant
and then a watering in to take the solution down to root level.
Subsequently monthly if necessary - but I don't know how one would
gauge the neccesity. It's not cheap so I don't want to splash it
around unnecessarily.

Do you think a repeated use is a sensible insurance policy or likely
overkill?

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009, Chris Hogg wrote
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:33:15 +0200, bob wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:56:26 +0200, bob wrote:

I'm in France at the moment and couldn't find Sequestrine (or sulphate
of ammonia, come to that), nor could I spot an equivalent product in
the garden centre here so I'll go with the vinegar for now until I get
back to the UK to pick up supplies.

After a new search in my garden center I'm hoping what I've found
today is the approximately matching stuff in France - 'KB-anti
chlorose'. It's a powder, the bluish colour of a corroded copper
roof, and seems to have the principle ingredients soluble iron - 3%,
magnesium oxide - 16%.

It recommends a 10 grm dose in 2 litres of water for a single plant
and then a watering in to take the solution down to root level.
Subsequently monthly if necessary - but I don't know how one would
gauge the neccesity. It's not cheap so I don't want to splash it
around unnecessarily.

Do you think a repeated use is a sensible insurance policy or likely
overkill?

Never heard of the stuff, and the analysis makes me suspicious that
it's not the same as Sequestrine, especially the colour and the
presence of magnesium sulphate (it wasn't manganese by any chance, was
it? I suspect not, at that concentration). It could simply be a
mixture of iron and magnesium sulphates, both of which are important
in making leaves green (magnesium is a key component of chlorophyll).
It would probably be OK in the short term, but I doubt if it would be
of long term benefit if you were actually on alkaline soil. But as
it's only to offset the effect of hard water applied occasionally, I
guess it will probably be OK. When dissolved in water, it will be
slightly acidic itself, which will help. I wouldn't use it any more
frequently that it says on the packet, or if no instructions, then no
more than once per month.


I had a google on www.google.fr and the Jardiland advice pages for June
also said to use an 'anti-chlorose' product on Rhododendrons and azaleas
now - actually, they say it should be a 'complement soufré
antichlorose', which I presume means 'sulphated'. They also suggest
pruning now:
http://www.jardiland.com/nos_conseil...ison/469/index.
html?id=79&saison=3


Does Sequestrene have sulphur in it? Sequestrene itself can apparently
be bought in France and is called an 'anti-chlorose', so I suppose that
is the term for what they use on acid-loving plants. We've got a French
garden of a few inches of topsoil on solid limestone, so I have azaleas
in pots - we filled the pots with 'terre de bruyere' and every so often
give them a sprinkle of a bog-standard Intermarché product labelled for
azaleas and hortensias (hydrangeas), but more extensive planting would
be doomed on our soil, I think. How nice to have an entire acid patch!

--
Kate B

PS 'elvira' is spamtrapped - please reply to 'elviraspam' at cockaigne dot org dot uk if you
want to reply personally

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:08:22 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

Never heard of the stuff, and the analysis makes me suspicious that
it's not the same as Sequestrine, especially the colour and the
presence of magnesium sulphate (it wasn't manganese by any chance, was
it? I suspect not, at that concentration). It could simply be a
mixture of iron and magnesium sulphates, both of which are important
in making leaves green (magnesium is a key component of chlorophyll).
It would probably be OK in the short term, but I doubt if it would be
of long term benefit if you were actually on alkaline soil. But as
it's only to offset the effect of hard water applied occasionally, I
guess it will probably be OK. When dissolved in water, it will be
slightly acidic itself, which will help. I wouldn't use it any more
frequently that it says on the packet, or if no instructions, then no
more than once per month.

Yes, it was Magnesium Oxide (MgO). That and the soluble iron seem to
be the only things listed.

Anyway I've done it now. The powder goes a promising deep green when
you add water. They really know how to sell this stuff don't they?

I'll make a point of getting the sequestrene when next in the UK.

Kate-

Thanks for your link. My french is barely passable but from what I
can gather with the help of the dict, they're not talking about doing
anything very drastic other than pinching out the dead spidery flower
heads and removing weak and low branches. I don't know what "au
marcottage" (layering) means but I wonder, is it a type of pruning
which suits rhodies?

BTW, my acid patch, is only approx 3m by 3m. It's bordered by stones
and against a neighbours wall to allow a soil depth of probably
30-40cms against the surrounding gravel path.

In this dry spell it's fighting a bitter pH battle against tap water
which is chalkier than in any area I've ever lived - the kettle needs
kilrok about once a fortnight.

On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:51:41 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

Layering is a technique for propagating rhodies, camellias etc.
Basically, you take a low growing branch that can be brought down to
the ground without breaking, abrade the underside of the bark over
about an inch and then peg or weight the abraded part down onto the
ground with a stone. Leave it undisturbed for maybe a year or so, and
if you're lucky it will have rooted into the soil. It helps if that
soil is nice and peaty and moist. Gently turning up the free end so
that the branch is slightly bent at the point of abrasion is also said
to help as it slightly restricts the sap movement from the parent
plant at that point. When it's well rooted, you can cut the branch
between the parent and the rooted section, and transplant it to
wherever you want. I suppose it's a bit like strawberry runners, but
on a much longer time scale.

Ah! that ties in nicely with some advice I got from Charlie Pridham
for dealing with heathers which had become hopelessly leggy. I hadn't
realised it was called layering. Also, your useful extra detail about
abrading and gently bending - much appreciated.

On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:09:20 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 09:01:20 +0200, bob wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:51:41 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

Layering is a technique for propagating rhodies, camellias etc.
Basically, you take a low growing branch that can be brought down to
the ground without breaking, abrade the underside of the bark over
about an inch and then peg or weight the abraded part down onto the
ground with a stone. Leave it undisturbed for maybe a year or so, and
if you're lucky it will have rooted into the soil. It helps if that
soil is nice and peaty and moist. Gently turning up the free end so
that the branch is slightly bent at the point of abrasion is also said
to help as it slightly restricts the sap movement from the parent
plant at that point. When it's well rooted, you can cut the branch
between the parent and the rooted section, and transplant it to
wherever you want. I suppose it's a bit like strawberry runners, but
on a much longer time scale.

Ah! that ties in nicely with some advice I got from Charlie Pridham
for dealing with heathers which had become hopelessly leggy. I hadn't
realised it was called layering. Also, your useful extra detail about
abrading and gently bending - much appreciated.

Not too much abrasion, just to damage the bark a little. Some people
suggest actually slitting the stem and opening the slit with a
matchstick or similar. Some also suggest dusting the abrasion or slit
with hormone rooting powder. And don't try and bend it too much!


Thanks for the xtra tips.

If I can find enough low branches I might do a little comparison test.

Is it a good or a bad idea to submerge one of the little buds that
appear along the length of the branch?