"shazzbat" wrote in message
...

"Pete C" wrote in message
...


Bob Hobden wrote:
"Lol" wrote ...
Well actually it looks more like a bit of field that hasn't been
cultivated for years.
4 poles (100 m2), all covered in couch grass.
So far we have dismantled a couple of pallets and made a compost
bin, but probably can't compost couch grass enough to kill it.
Mares tail is also present in the area, so seeds are probably around
waiting for anyone to expose some bare soil.

Cover the lot in plastic and leave it for a year??? (Are we allowed
to do that??).

Potentially a lot of work here, important that any effort is most
efficiently targeted.

So please advise and suggest plans of action!

Many thanks

You will find you cannot dig out couch grass no matter how careful
you are and it will be a problem for ever. Spray with glyphosate
(Roundup) while the plants are still green and wait a few weeks and
they will all turn brown and the roots will be killed too. It's the
only sure way to kill almost all perennial weeds and start with a
clean plot. Black plastic will work eventually but by then you will
have had notice to quit for not cultivating your plot. Glysophate
weedkiller becomes inert on contact with the soil so it's not too bad.
Mares tail is another problem, you certainly cannot dig that out it
goes down too far and the foliage is naturally water resistant so
it's difficult to kill with weedkiller, we found constant hoeing off
reduced it over time. Spend the first 10 mins of every visit to the
plot hoeing. It will be all around and will come back from the
surrounding areas but from our experience it seems to move across an
area in a wave of thick growth and just leaves a few plants behind in
it's wake. One problem is, if the surrounding area is also infested with
couch
it will grow back surprising quickly so it may be an idea to
weedkiller the whole area and reseed any grass paths with proper
grass. Or use old paving slabs like us to cut down on the work.
Don't put your compost bin onto soil infested with couch or it will
infest your compost making it useless.

Bob's comments are spot on. I also find a flame gun useful on Mares tail.
It destroys what you can see and weakens the roots. Come spring when it
starts to grow, visit the plot as often as possible and deal with the
tail. Go away for 2 weeks, and you won't beleive the 2ft high 'field'
waving at you in the breeze!! Good luck

What they said. I would also manually clear a strip or two now and get
some overwintering onions and broad beans in.This will give you
encouragement to stick at the task, there's nothing worse than a vast
expanse of nothing.

Steve

Thats an excellent suggestion, thanks. Forgot that wallflowers only went
into the garden last month -
is there any other veg that could go in now?
Lol

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Neuneu" wrote ...


Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm.

So, don't.

There was gardening before glyphosate.

There was gardening before the spade and fork, how far back do you want to
go.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
just W. of London

Allotment is about productivity rather than tree hugging I do agree, but we
are the sort of nuts who enjoy leaving some long grass in our small front
garden, so as to get the delightful sound of grasshoppers in the summer.
This annoys those who like things tidy, and think front gardens are for
paving and parking cars on.
Finding the balance, thats the trick.

Some of the anti weedkiller studies are a bit mad - just read one that
claimed a supposedly harmless weedkiller actually killed wildlife, because
it destroyed the environment the wildlife lived in.
Therefore 'harmful', not harmless as claimed.

Yup - no long grass = no grasshoppers, whose fault is that?

I'm sure we'll be able to enjoy happy chirping sounds from other peoples
weedy plots...

Lol

"Lol" wrote ((SNIP))

Some of the anti weedkiller studies are a bit mad - just read one that
claimed a supposedly harmless weedkiller actually killed wildlife, because
it destroyed the environment the wildlife lived in.
Therefore 'harmful', not harmless as claimed.


So a hoe is as harmful to the environment as weedkiller. We had better all
stop using them then.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
just W. of London

Le Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:22:51 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :

"Neuneu" wrote ...


Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm.

So, don't.

There was gardening before glyphosate.

There was gardening before the spade and fork, how far back do you want to
go.

Just before pollution of rivers by glyphosate.
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

"Neuneu" wrote
Bob Hobden a écrit :

"Neuneu" wrote ...


Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm.

So, don't.

There was gardening before glyphosate.

There was gardening before the spade and fork, how far back do you want
to
go.

Just before pollution of rivers by glyphosate.

Then it hasn't been used properly or the wrong formulation has been used
(there are even formulations for use in the aquatic environment), from what
I've read it's not the fault of the chemical.
However I'd like to know any scientifically proven cases of that happening
as my understanding is this chemical has a low toxicity level and quite
quickly becomes inert on contact with soil and even quicker in a natural
watercourse.
I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less
toxic.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
just W. of London

Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :

I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less
toxic.

Is advertising allowed in urg now ?

--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

On 2009-11-09 17:58:55 +0000, Neuneu
said:

Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :

I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less
toxic.

Is advertising allowed in urg now ?


If you look at the FAQ it tells you what the group requirements are as
to advertising but group members have always discussed, among
themselves, what they consider to be good products of all types.
Recently we had a thread on seed germination and those selling the best
etc. People recommend various gardening tools and so forth. That's not
advertising, it's people chatting about gardening and their personal
experiences.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

"Neuneu" wrote in message
.. .
Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :

I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less
toxic.

Is advertising allowed in urg now ?

--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

That is helpful opinion/information/experience that helps me make a
decision.

I would never (I hope) allow advertising to inform decisions, but I will
take note of urg posts.

Thanks for that info, Bob.

Lol

Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:11:55 +0000, Sacha a écrit :

On 2009-11-09 17:58:55 +0000, Neuneu
said:

Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :

I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less
toxic.

Is advertising allowed in urg now ?


If you look at the FAQ it tells you what the group requirements are as
to advertising but group members have always discussed, among
themselves, what they consider to be good products of all types.
Recently we had a thread on seed germination and those selling the best
etc. People recommend various gardening tools and so forth. That's not
advertising, it's people chatting about gardening and their personal
experiences.

Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.

This group should be renamed u.r.monsanto.gardening.

I quit.
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

On 2009-11-10 12:57:02 +0000, Neuneu
said:

Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:11:55 +0000, Sacha a écrit :

On 2009-11-09 17:58:55 +0000, Neuneu
said:

Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :

I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less
toxic.

Is advertising allowed in urg now ?


If you look at the FAQ it tells you what the group requirements are as
to advertising but group members have always discussed, among
themselves, what they consider to be good products of all types.
Recently we had a thread on seed germination and those selling the best
etc. People recommend various gardening tools and so forth. That's not
advertising, it's people chatting about gardening and their personal
experiences.

Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.

This group should be renamed u.r.monsanto.gardening.

I quit.

That is a deeply unfair slur on Bob, who is a very long term poster
here, as well as the many helpful and experienced people on urg. All
sorts of methods and products are discussed and recommended - or not.
Everyone is free to say what they, personally, do or would not do and
several are totally organic in their approach. If you want an organic
group however, then perhaps you shouldn't come into one that isn't and
think everyone should be of the same mind as you. And I wonder why you
ask is advertising allowed 'now'? Aren't you quite a newcomer to urg?

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

Neuneu writes

Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.

Glyphosate is the generic name of the active ingredient. It is available
from other manufacturers apart from Monsanto, and that is why most of
the recommendations on urg are to the active ingredient glyphosate and
not to any particular product.
--
Kay

"Neuneu" wrote in message
...
Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:11:55 +0000, Sacha a écrit :

On 2009-11-09 17:58:55 +0000, Neuneu
said:

Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :

I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup
Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much
less
toxic.

Is advertising allowed in urg now ?


If you look at the FAQ it tells you what the group requirements are as
to advertising but group members have always discussed, among
themselves, what they consider to be good products of all types.
Recently we had a thread on seed germination and those selling the best
etc. People recommend various gardening tools and so forth. That's not
advertising, it's people chatting about gardening and their personal
experiences.

Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.

This group should be renamed u.r.monsanto.gardening.

I quit.

Don't slam it.

Steve

Neuneu wrote:
Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.

Presumably if you have an alternate view, there is nothing stopping
you from adding your 2p worth in response?

"Neuneu" wrote
Sacha a écrit :
Neuneu said:
Bob Hobden a écrit :

I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old
products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup
Biactive
formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much
less
toxic.

Is advertising allowed in urg now ?


If you look at the FAQ it tells you what the group requirements are as
to advertising but group members have always discussed, among
themselves, what they consider to be good products of all types.
Recently we had a thread on seed germination and those selling the best
etc. People recommend various gardening tools and so forth. That's not
advertising, it's people chatting about gardening and their personal
experiences.

Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.

This group should be renamed u.r.monsanto.gardening.

I quit.

Just because someone else has a different view to you? Please don't.
Whilst I advocate and have used Glyphosate to clear overgrown plots at the
beginning that is the only use I have for the chemical near food production
other than keeping the weeds away from my rabbit fences so I can see where
they are trying to get in. And I advocate that chemical because it's by far
the least toxic.
I do not advocate the wholesale use of the stuff but was answering a
specific question. I used the retail name only because that is the original
product and it contained not only Glyphosate but some nastier stuff
origibnally.
As gardeners I'm sure we have more in common than not so why disappear when
you have only just arrived, others have done the same when we wouldn't all
bow to the God "organic" which was a shame because they often have lots to
offer.
You garden your way and tell us about it but don't get upset when someone
else has a differing view which probably also works, for goodness sake there
is always more than one way to do gardening stuff.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
just W. of London

Le Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:49:50 +0000, Sacha a écrit :

Aren't you quite a newcomer to urg?

I'll just answer this one.

I first come (not as Neuneu) in 1999.