According to the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-squirrel.html

a person who trapped and drowned a grey squirrel because it was raiding bird
feeders in his garden pleaded guilty to a charge under the Animal Welfare
Act 2006.

The RSPCA was apparently tipped off by a neighbour who observed the act.

"BAC" wrote in
:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-kind-Man-tol
d-pay-1-500-guilty-drowning-squirrel.html

I agree with the conviction this cruel, thoughtless man was awarded.
He seems to be in some eyes as the victim.

"Whack it with a shovel" as the article said.
Of the two alternatives which is most humane?

If the 2 alternatives were offered to end YOUR life, which would YOU take?

My view is that we all have to kill either rats, squirrels, mice etc. it's
a way of life but do we HAVE to make them suffer?

Many tuppence worth
PtePike

PtePike wrote:
"BAC" wrote in
:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-kind-Man-tol
d-pay-1-500-guilty-drowning-squirrel.html

I agree with the conviction this cruel, thoughtless man was awarded.

Is drowning vermin worthy of criminalisation? A criminal conviction is a
very serious matter. People seem to think these days that the cruel blunt
instrument of the Law should be used against anyone they just don't agree
with.

He seems to be in some eyes as the victim.

He's certainly the victim of the law, the RSPCA, and a neighbour who
presumably would have loved it under communism, or fascism, tipping off the
secret police about their neighbours.

"Whack it with a shovel" as the article said.
Of the two alternatives which is most humane?

Does it matter?

If the 2 alternatives were offered to end YOUR life, which would YOU
take?

Squirrels are not people. They have no conception of these issues, and we
cannot anthropomorphise opinions and feelings onto them. A squirrel cannot
reason and cannot be reasoned with. It also has no concept of rights, or
responsibilities.

Also, if I were creeping into your garden and stealing from your bird
feeders, I'd not be surprised if you whacked me with a shovel at some point.

My view is that we all have to kill either rats, squirrels, mice etc.
it's a way of life but do we HAVE to make them suffer?

Do we HAVE to *not* make them suffer? Suffering is part of the life of
vermin. My cat regularly brings vermin home to torture to death. I usually
hit them with something like a shoe- the rats and mice, not the cat. I do
not believe that any rational society- we are no longer one of those, mind
you- would place upon me responsibility for the care of rats, even arboreal
rats with fluffy tails. Rats don't care about me, and I don't care about
rats. It's all equal, really.

This is a mad decision representative of a society that has gone barmy.
Where do we go from here? Cats and dogs in the dock for their crimes against
rats and mice, or their owners? The latter wouldn't surprise me, in due
course; "It is the contention of the prosecution that the defendant Mr Jack
Smith did wilfully allow his cat Tiddles to break a mouse's leg so it would
run around in circles".

Many tuppence worth
PtePike

And mine


Ian

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:09:44 +0100, "Ian B"
wrote:

PtePike wrote:
"BAC" wrote in
:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-kind-Man-tol
d-pay-1-500-guilty-drowning-squirrel.html

I agree with the conviction this cruel, thoughtless man was awarded.

Is drowning vermin worthy of criminalisation? A criminal conviction is a
very serious matter. People seem to think these days that the cruel blunt
instrument of the Law should be used against anyone they just don't agree
with.


"Think of the kittens" maybe?

The time and money spent on this means some nasty git avoids
prosecution for mistreating something fluffy.
The local RSPCA helpline gave some pretty shocking advice when we
spoke to them about a feral cat.
--
http://www.bra-and-pants.com
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On 20 July, 14:09, "Ian B"
wrote:
PtePike wrote:
"BAC" wrote in
:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-kind-Man-tol
d-pay-1-500-guilty-drowning-squirrel.html

I agree with the conviction this cruel, thoughtless man was awarded.

Is drowning vermin worthy of criminalisation? A criminal conviction is a
very serious matter. People seem to think these days that the cruel blunt
instrument of the Law should be used against anyone they just don't agree
with.

He seems to be in some eyes as the victim.

He's certainly the victim of the law, the RSPCA, and a neighbour who
presumably would have loved it under communism, or fascism, tipping off the
secret police about their neighbours.

"Whack it with a shovel" as the article said.
Of the two alternatives which is most humane?

Does it matter?

If the 2 alternatives were offered to end YOUR life, which would YOU
take?

Squirrels are not people. They have no conception of these issues, and we
cannot anthropomorphise opinions and feelings onto them. A squirrel cannot
reason and cannot be reasoned with. It also has no concept of rights, or
responsibilities.

Also, if I were creeping into your garden and stealing from your bird
feeders, I'd not be surprised if you whacked me with a shovel at some point.

My view is that we all have to kill either rats, squirrels, mice etc.
it's a way of life but do we HAVE to make them suffer?

Do we HAVE to *not* make them suffer? Suffering is part of the life of
vermin. My cat regularly brings vermin home to torture to death. I usually
hit them with something like a shoe- the rats and mice, not the cat. I do
not believe that any rational society- we are no longer one of those, mind
you- would place upon me responsibility for the care of rats, even arboreal
rats with fluffy tails. Rats don't care about me, and I don't care about
rats. It's all equal, really.

This is a mad decision representative of a society that has gone barmy.
Where do we go from here? Cats and dogs in the dock for their crimes against
rats and mice, or their owners? The latter wouldn't surprise me, in due
course; "It is the contention of the prosecution that the defendant Mr Jack
Smith did wilfully allow his cat Tiddles to break a mouse's leg so it would
run around in circles".

Many tuppence worth
PtePike

And mine

Ian

All the above is exactly right. It's also illegal to release a grey
squirrel if one is captured. Next thing they'll be prosecutions for
killing rats.

On 20/07/10 10:09, BAC wrote:
According to the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-squirrel.html


a person who trapped and drowned a grey squirrel because it was raiding
bird feeders in his garden pleaded guilty to a charge under the Animal
Welfare Act 2006.

The RSPCA was apparently tipped off by a neighbour who observed the act.
Bang to rights. why the @@@@ didn't he just put out peanuts in a
bird-proof squirrel feeder? They are quite fun and do very little damage
in yer average garden

noone

The only way to get across to "charities" like the RSPCA that they've lost
the plot and getting above themselves is to stop giving donations to them,
they certainly start to take notice when the money gets tight. Had a similar
experience with the RNLI over the "eel incident", they evaded my e-mails but
when I wouldn't renew my subscription they were full of "apologies" but lied
through their teeth about replying to my e-mails.
This incident sounds to me like the neighbour getting his own back for
something this guy had said or done and the RSPCA going in for a bit of
propaganda/brainwashing. The NSPCA have been trying it on lately as well.

"David D" wrote The only way to get across to "charities" like the RSPCA
that they've lost
the plot and getting above themselves is to stop giving donations to them,
they certainly start to take notice when the money gets tight. Had a
similar experience with the RNLI over the "eel incident", they evaded my
e-mails but when I wouldn't renew my subscription they were full of
"apologies" but lied through their teeth about replying to my e-mails.
This incident sounds to me like the neighbour getting his own back for
something this guy had said or done and the RSPCA going in for a bit of
propaganda/brainwashing. The NSPCA have been trying it on lately as well.
Don't talk to me about the RNLI, the 3.500 paid office staff have a nice new
office block costing millions with subsidised food etc but the 850 unpaid
seamen that risk their lives have been told to get their personal lights
from Halfords instead of the more expensive but infinitely better lights
they used to buy from a specialist supplier. Shows where the managements
priorities lie!
The RHS is similar too, buying in lots of managers last year and sacking
gardeners ??
These charities seem to be just wonderful jobs for well connected idiots
IMO, they used to go into the Church in the old days.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

In article , says...

"David D" wrote The only way to get across to "charities" like the RSPCA
that they've lost
the plot and getting above themselves is to stop giving donations to them,
they certainly start to take notice when the money gets tight. Had a
similar experience with the RNLI over the "eel incident", they evaded my
e-mails but when I wouldn't renew my subscription they were full of
"apologies" but lied through their teeth about replying to my e-mails.
This incident sounds to me like the neighbour getting his own back for
something this guy had said or done and the RSPCA going in for a bit of
propaganda/brainwashing. The NSPCA have been trying it on lately as well.
Don't talk to me about the RNLI, the 3.500 paid office staff have a nice new
office block costing millions with subsidised food etc but the 850 unpaid
seamen that risk their lives have been told to get their personal lights
from Halfords instead of the more expensive but infinitely better lights
they used to buy from a specialist supplier. Shows where the managements
priorities lie!
The RHS is similar too, buying in lots of managers last year and sacking
gardeners ??
These charities seem to be just wonderful jobs for well connected idiots
IMO, they used to go into the Church in the old days.

Ditto the National Trust for Scotland :-( Another body which has lost
many subscribers whose protests were ignored.

Janet

Jake wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:09:44 +0100, "Ian B"
ffy.
The local RSPCA helpline gave some pretty shocking advice when we
spoke to them about a feral cat.

Never trust them and never donate. They killed my elderly cat when I was in
hospital and she was outside her own house looking for me. Gathered up by a
kind person who noticed that a 25 yo cat didn't look so great.
She never stepped out of my house for 3 years before that.
And that's not the least I want to say about the RSPCA.
My friend June, agrees. She says "I would not give them the droppings of my
nose"
so there you have it.

Tina

"harry" wrote in message
...
On 20 July, 14:09, "Ian B"
wrote:
snip

It's also illegal to release a grey
squirrel if one is captured.

Not altogether true, since in England grey squirrels may be released under
licence. The RSPCA holds such licences, for example. See

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3378581.ece

Next thing they'll be prosecutions for
killing rats.

The prosecution was not for killing the squirrel, but for the means
employed. If someone were to be caught drowning captured rats, they might
well face prosecution, following the Rural Development Service's 2006
advisory note on rat control, which states 'Drowning is not a humane method
of dispatch and could result in prosecution.'.

BAC wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On 20 July, 14:09, "Ian B"
wrote:
snip

It's also illegal to release a grey
squirrel if one is captured.

Not altogether true, since in England grey squirrels may be released
under licence. The RSPCA holds such licences, for example. See

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3378581.ece

Next thing they'll be prosecutions for
killing rats.

The prosecution was not for killing the squirrel, but for the means
employed. If someone were to be caught drowning captured rats, they
might well face prosecution, following the Rural Development
Service's 2006 advisory note on rat control, which states 'Drowning
is not a humane method of dispatch and could result in prosecution.'.

Is it reasonable to expect ordinary citizens to know that?


Ian

"Ian B" wrote in message
...
BAC wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On 20 July, 14:09, "Ian B"
wrote:
snip

It's also illegal to release a grey
squirrel if one is captured.

Not altogether true, since in England grey squirrels may be released
under licence. The RSPCA holds such licences, for example. See

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3378581.ece

Next thing they'll be prosecutions for
killing rats.

The prosecution was not for killing the squirrel, but for the means
employed. If someone were to be caught drowning captured rats, they
might well face prosecution, following the Rural Development
Service's 2006 advisory note on rat control, which states 'Drowning
is not a humane method of dispatch and could result in prosecution.'.

Is it reasonable to expect ordinary citizens to know that?


Probably not! How many of us know the ins and outs of every law on the
statute-books? None, I'd guess.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 BAC wrote:

Next thing they'll be prosecutions for
killing rats.

The prosecution was not for killing the squirrel, but for the means
employed. If someone were to be caught drowning captured rats, they
might well face prosecution, following the Rural Development Service's
2006 advisory note on rat control, which states 'Drowning is not a
humane method of dispatch and could result in prosecution.'.

But drowning is the time-honoured way of despatching unwanted kittens.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

David Rance wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 BAC wrote:

Next thing they'll be prosecutions for
killing rats.

The prosecution was not for killing the squirrel, but for the means
employed. If someone were to be caught drowning captured rats, they
might well face prosecution, following the Rural Development
Service's 2006 advisory note on rat control, which states 'Drowning
is not a humane method of dispatch and could result in prosecution.'.

But drowning is the time-honoured way of despatching unwanted kittens.


Apparently nowadays you'd have to put them in a sack and beat them to death
with a shovel.


Ian