Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from users of
this group, but I still need help and advice with two niggling problems
which if solved would be very nice, to say the least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.
2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of organic
material and have to water every day in summer with a hosepipe when
permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water I have found.

All advice is most welcome,
Baz

On 16/03/2011 11:05, Baz wrote:
Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from users of
this group, but I still need help and advice with two niggling problems
which if solved would be very nice, to say the least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.

Never found anything effective against whitefly apart from encouraging
birds like bluetits and ladybirds/lacewings into the vicinity. My hedge
is afflicted some years. My brassicas suffer more from caterpillars
appearing overnight and eating every leaf leaving just the ribs.

2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of organic
material and have to water every day in summer with a hosepipe when
permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water I have found.

All advice is most welcome,

You might find it useful to put a mulch of bark chips on top of the soil
so that the water applied is not subject to direct sunlight and airflow.
That way the soil stays moist for much longer.

Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 16/03/2011 11:05, Baz wrote:
Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from users
of
this group, but I still need help and advice with two niggling problems
which if solved would be very nice, to say the least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.

Never found anything effective against whitefly apart from encouraging
birds like bluetits and ladybirds/lacewings into the vicinity. My hedge is
afflicted some years. My brassicas suffer more from caterpillars appearing
overnight and eating every leaf leaving just the ribs.

2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic
material and have to water every day in summer with a hosepipe when
permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water I have found.

All advice is most welcome,

You might find it useful to put a mulch of bark chips on top of the soil
so that the water applied is not subject to direct sunlight and airflow.
That way the soil stays moist for much longer.

Regards,
Martin Brown


but don't put the bark too close to the plants because of the wonderful
environment for Woodlice etc :-((

Mike


--

....................................
Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive
....................................

Martin Brown wrote in
:

On 16/03/2011 11:05, Baz wrote:
Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from
users of this group, but I still need help and advice with two
niggling problems which if solved would be very nice, to say the
least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.

Never found anything effective against whitefly apart from encouraging
birds like bluetits and ladybirds/lacewings into the vicinity. My
hedge is afflicted some years. My brassicas suffer more from
caterpillars appearing overnight and eating every leaf leaving just
the ribs.

2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic material and have to water every day in summer with a
hosepipe when permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water
I have found.

All advice is most welcome,

You might find it useful to put a mulch of bark chips on top of the
soil so that the water applied is not subject to direct sunlight and
airflow. That way the soil stays moist for much longer.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Thanks, Martin for your welcome advice.
I have to say that buying mulch is going to be quite expensive. That option
is not for me and I should have pointed out so. If it was a one time
purchase I would be the first in the queue.
I do think though for next year it would not be wasted money to buy a
chipper/mulcher to make my own. But that is on a long list of the budget to
make this veg. garden viable. I know most of the contributers within this
group are free of tethers such as mortgages, and so should I be if I had
not tried to get a better place above my means.
But here we are and I would not change a thing if I could go back.

Baz

On 16/03/2011 12:58, Baz wrote:
Martin wrote in
:

On 16/03/2011 11:05, Baz wrote:

2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic material and have to water every day in summer with a
hosepipe when permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water
I have found.

All advice is most welcome,

You might find it useful to put a mulch of bark chips on top of the
soil so that the water applied is not subject to direct sunlight and
airflow. That way the soil stays moist for much longer.

Thanks, Martin for your welcome advice.
I have to say that buying mulch is going to be quite expensive. That option
is not for me and I should have pointed out so. If it was a one time
purchase I would be the first in the queue.

I didn't have in mind buying it. Anything organic will do as a mulch to
keep water in. I tend to use rougher compost from my heap for this
purpose and let the worms mix it in. All you want is something coarse
enough to let water in easily and prevent excessive evaporation.

I don't like it as a solution, but the anti weed membrane is another way
to get a similar effect. It traps water underneath to some extent.

I do think though for next year it would not be wasted money to buy a
chipper/mulcher to make my own. But that is on a long list of the budget to
make this veg. garden viable. I know most of the contributers within this
group are free of tethers such as mortgages, and so should I be if I had
not tried to get a better place above my means.
But here we are and I would not change a thing if I could go back.

Definitely start a set of 3 compost heaps then if you haven't already.
Scrap pallets or old doors are ideal as dividers.

Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
says...
On 16/03/2011 11:05, Baz wrote:

2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic material and have to water every day in summer with a
hosepipe when permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water
I have found.


I have to say that buying mulch is going to be quite expensive. That
option
is not for me and I should have pointed out so. If it was a one time
purchase I would be the first in the queue.

I didn't have in mind buying it. Anything organic will do as a mulch to
keep water in. I tend to use rougher compost from my heap for this
purpose and let the worms mix it in. All you want is something coarse
enough to let water in easily and prevent excessive evaporation.

I've also used dead bracken, green bracken,nettles and comfrey,
seaweed, grasscuttings. If the mulch is in short supply, spread it on a
bottom layer of flattened cardboard cartons (free from white-goods
retailer).


I know most of the contributers within this
group are free of tethers such as mortgages,

I must have missed the urglers' credit reference reports. I don't even
know what what they live in let alone if they own it.

Janet.

In message ,
Janet writes
In article ,
says...
On 16/03/2011 11:05, Baz wrote:

2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic material and have to water every day in summer with a
hosepipe when permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water
I have found.


I have to say that buying mulch is going to be quite expensive. That
option
is not for me and I should have pointed out so. If it was a one time
purchase I would be the first in the queue.

I didn't have in mind buying it. Anything organic will do as a mulch to
keep water in. I tend to use rougher compost from my heap for this
purpose and let the worms mix it in. All you want is something coarse
enough to let water in easily and prevent excessive evaporation.

I've also used dead bracken, green bracken,nettles and comfrey,
seaweed, grasscuttings. If the mulch is in short supply, spread it on a
bottom layer of flattened cardboard cartons (free from white-goods
retailer).


Yup, we mostly use grass cuttings, or straw for mulching the veg bed.
also sometimes cardboard, which makes a pretty good weed suppressing
mulch.

We do have to buy the straw, but living in rural Cambs it is v. cheap.

I prefer mulches for the veg beds that will break down and be
incorporated into the soil. Things like bark are better in more
permanent areas such as flower beds.
--
Chris French

On Mar 16, 12:58*pm, Baz wrote:
Martin Brown wrote :





On 16/03/2011 11:05, Baz wrote:
Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from
users of this group, but I still need help and advice with two
niggling problems which if solved would be very nice, to say the
least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.

Never found anything effective against whitefly apart from encouraging
birds like bluetits and ladybirds/lacewings into the vicinity. My
hedge is afflicted some years. My brassicas suffer more from
caterpillars appearing overnight and eating every leaf leaving just
the ribs.

2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic material and have to water every day in summer with a
hosepipe when permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water
I have found.

All advice is most welcome,

You might find it useful to put a mulch of bark chips on top of the
soil so that the water applied is not subject to direct sunlight and
airflow. That way the soil stays moist for much longer.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Thanks, Martin for your welcome advice.
I have to say that buying mulch is going to be quite expensive. That option
is not for me and I should have pointed out so. If it was a one time
purchase I would be the first in the queue.
I do think though for next year it would not be wasted money to buy a
chipper/mulcher to make my own. But that is on a long list of the budget to
make this veg. garden viable. I know most of the contributers within this
group are free of tethers such as mortgages, and so should I be if I had
not tried to get a better place above my means.
But here we are and I would not change a thing if I could go back.

Baz- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Best not to fight nature. Avoid stuff that won't grow in light soils.
You should do OK with most root crops but avoid brassicas. for eg.

Thought this seemed like a new thread, really.

On 03/16/2011 02:07 PM, Sacha wrote:
Bark chips are useful but have to be approached with caution, if not
rotted down. As they rot, they leach some of the nutrients from the
soil. This corrects itself over time but can lead to some shrubs
looking pretty sick.

Interesting that you should mention this. I've done some tree-work this
year, and as part of the deal got my own chips plus a free truck load
(we see the boss of the company sometimes at parties, so had an in) of
chips the total around 10 m3.

I had always ascribed to Sacha's view above, but the garden needs mulch,
so I researched it a little.

Now, I don't always agree completely with Mrs. Dr. Linda Chalker-Scott,
but she does seem to have researched this area specifically. She tends
to be a little unequivocal for my tastes, for instance in the pdf she
claims "healthy plants are not susceptible to opportunistic pathogens
such as Armillaria and Phytophthora" Ah ha. Perhaps less susceptible.
But of course plants become stressed for a variety of reasons, which
makes them more vulnerable to these and other pathogens.

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%2.../Woodchips.pdf

Googling "fresh wood chips linda chalker scott" also turns up a bit of
interesting discussion, the link is the first hit.

Personally I've had decent results with this kind of mulch before.
Maples in particular need to be mulched, but you have to keep the mulch
a couple of inches from the bark to avoid moisture/freezing injuries and
associated pseudomonas.

-E

On 03/18/2011 02:41 PM, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-03-18 11:39:00 +0000, Emery Davis said:

Thought this seemed like a new thread, really.

On 03/16/2011 02:07 PM, Sacha wrote:
Bark chips are useful but have to be approached with caution, if not
rotted down. As they rot, they leach some of the nutrients from the
soil. This corrects itself over time but can lead to some shrubs
looking pretty sick.

Interesting that you should mention this. I've done some tree-work this
year, and as part of the deal got my own chips plus a free truck load
(we see the boss of the company sometimes at parties, so had an in) of
chips the total around 10 m3.

I had always ascribed to Sacha's view above, but the garden needs mulch,
so I researched it a little.

Now, I don't always agree completely with Mrs. Dr. Linda Chalker-Scott,
but she does seem to have researched this area specifically. She tends
to be a little unequivocal for my tastes, for instance in the pdf she
claims "healthy plants are not susceptible to opportunistic pathogens
such as Armillaria and Phytophthora" Ah ha. Perhaps less susceptible.
But of course plants become stressed for a variety of reasons, which
makes them more vulnerable to these and other pathogens.

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%2.../Woodchips.pdf


Googling

"fresh wood chips linda chalker scott" also turns up a bit of
interesting discussion, the link is the first hit.

Personally I've had decent results with this kind of mulch before.
Maples in particular need to be mulched, but you have to keep the mulch
a couple of inches from the bark to avoid moisture/freezing injuries and
associated pseudomonas.

-E

Interesting article which I'm going to print off for Ray. The first
time I heard any mention of this from him was when we were going round a
friend's Jersey garden, well-known there for having lovely Camellias.
Her now-very-old gardener had put down bark chippings to cut down on
weeding and all the Camellias were turning yellow in the leaf -
chlorotic. Friend asked Ray if he knew why and that was his answer and
of course, it's not his alone! It may have something to do with what
the bark is applied to and what kind of bar it is., perhaps? AFAIK her
soil was neutral but I can't be certain of that. Certainly, Camellias
seem to grow very well in most parts of Jersey.

I've heard the same opinion (Ray's I mean) from other reputable sources
too. I'll be interested what he think about Mrs. Dr.'s opinion. In one
of the discussions google shows up she talks about the difference
between wood chips and bark chips, and of course part of her (admirable
I think) goal here is to get us to use local mulch, not buy the stuff in
bags.

-E

On 03/19/2011 10:23 AM, Sacha wrote:
I showed the article to Ray, Emery. While he respects her knowledge
etc., of course he disagrees still with the putting of fresh bark
chippings onto shrubs. In his experience, they leach the nitrogen from
the soil as they rot down, though they do put it back *later*. In the
meantime, though, you can have some pretty sick shrubs. Of course, as I
said above, it may be a question of which bark to which shrubs and all
sorts of other factors. We haven't conducted trials and the Dr. has.
I'm afraid we're not going to, either, because we're rather fond of our
plants!

I'll let you know next year if my "kill rate" has gone up!

-E

In article , Sacha
wrote:

On 2011-03-18 16:15:18 +0000, Emery Davis said:

On 03/18/2011 02:41 PM, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-03-18 11:39:00 +0000, Emery Davis said:

Thought this seemed like a new thread, really.

On 03/16/2011 02:07 PM, Sacha wrote:
Bark chips are useful but have to be approached with caution, if not
rotted down. As they rot, they leach some of the nutrients from the
soil. This corrects itself over time but can lead to some shrubs
looking pretty sick.

Interesting that you should mention this. I've done some tree-work this
year, and as part of the deal got my own chips plus a free truck load
(we see the boss of the company sometimes at parties, so had an in) of
chips the total around 10 m3.

I had always ascribed to Sacha's view above, but the garden needs mulch,
so I researched it a little.

Now, I don't always agree completely with Mrs. Dr. Linda Chalker-Scott,
but she does seem to have researched this area specifically. She tends
to be a little unequivocal for my tastes, for instance in the pdf she
claims "healthy plants are not susceptible to opportunistic pathogens
such as Armillaria and Phytophthora" Ah ha. Perhaps less susceptible.
But of course plants become stressed for a variety of reasons, which
makes them more vulnerable to these and other pathogens.

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%2...ural%20myths_f
iles/Myths/magazine%20pdfs/Woodchips.pdf


Googling

"fresh

wood chips linda chalker scott" also turns up a bit of
interesting discussion, the link is the first hit.

Personally I've had decent results with this kind of mulch before.
Maples in particular need to be mulched, but you have to keep the mulch
a couple of inches from the bark to avoid moisture/freezing injuries and
associated pseudomonas.

-E

Interesting article which I'm going to print off for Ray. The first
time I heard any mention of this from him was when we were going round a
friend's Jersey garden, well-known there for having lovely Camellias.
Her now-very-old gardener had put down bark chippings to cut down on
weeding and all the Camellias were turning yellow in the leaf -
chlorotic. Friend asked Ray if he knew why and that was his answer and
of course, it's not his alone! It may have something to do with what
the bark is applied to and what kind of bar it is., perhaps? AFAIK her
soil was neutral but I can't be certain of that. Certainly, Camellias
seem to grow very well in most parts of Jersey.

I've heard the same opinion (Ray's I mean) from other reputable sources
too. I'll be interested what he think about Mrs. Dr.'s opinion. In one
of the discussions google shows up she talks about the difference
between wood chips and bark chips, and of course part of her (admirable
I think) goal here is to get us to use local mulch, not buy the stuff in
bags.

-E

I showed the article to Ray, Emery. While he respects her knowledge
etc., of course he disagrees still with the putting of fresh bark
chippings onto shrubs. In his experience, they leach the nitrogen from
the soil as they rot down, though they do put it back *later*. In the
meantime, though, you can have some pretty sick shrubs. Of course, as
I said above, it may be a question of which bark to which shrubs and
all sorts of other factors. We haven't conducted trials and the Dr.
has. I'm afraid we're not going to, either, because we're rather fond
of our plants!

Ray has got it right. In composting in a pile or in a garden you need a
carbon to nitrogen ratio of 25 - 30 to 1 (25/1 or 30/1). Bacteria need
carbon and nitrogen, they will try to eat it. If the bacteria are
"eating" organic material with a lot of carbon and not much nitrogen,
that nitrogen won't be available until the food source is gone and the
bacteria die, relaeasing their nitrogen as aminoacids --- ammonia and
organic acids. The ammonia then gets converted by other bacteria into
NO3, which the plants can use.

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell

http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1

p.39

Compostable Material Average C/N

Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25

Grass clippings ................................ 25

Leguminous plants (peas,
beans,soybeans) ............................. 15

Manure with bedding ........................... 23

Manure ....................................... 15

Oak leaves .................................... 50

Pine needles .............................. 60-100

Sawdust................................. 150-500

Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100

Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25
Aged Chicken Manure**........................* 7
Alfalfa ................................................ 12
Newspaper........................................ 175
-------
also see

http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html

A Balancing Act (Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios)

and

http://www.homecompostingmadeeasy.com/carbonnitrogenratio.html

Aged Chicken Manure*** 7:1

Fresh manures are way to hot and can burn your plants and roots!

Leaves** 60-80:1
One of the most important ingredients for composting, especially
shredded or broken down (leaf mulch).

Coffee Grounds** 25:1

Woody chips & twigs** 700:1
Be sparing. Best use is small material at bottom of bin or pile.

Pine Needles** 80:1
Use sparingly. Very acidic and waxy; breaks down slowly.

ect.

"The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow." - Anon
--
- Billy

Dept. of Defense budget: $663.8 billion
Dept. of Health and Human Services budget: $78.4 billion


Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953

"Baz" wrote in message
...
Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from users of
this group, but I still need help and advice with two niggling problems
which if solved would be very nice, to say the least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.
2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic
material and have to water every day in summer with a hosepipe when
permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water I have found.

All advice is most welcome,
Baz

Reference 2. Something we do, sorry, SWMBO does, but with my assistance, is
to take a trench out where veg plants are going, and line it with plenty of
layers of old newspapers, soak them well, then cover with organic material
from the compost bin then soil. We find that the soil doesn't dry out so
quickly. Well it does on the surface but paper and compost retains moisture
lower down. Fantastic for Runner Beans :-))

Mike


--

....................................
Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive
....................................

"'Mike'" wrote in
:



"Baz" wrote in message
...
Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from
users of this group, but I still need help and advice with two
niggling problems which if solved would be very nice, to say the
least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.
2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic
material and have to water every day in summer with a hosepipe when
permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water I have found.

All advice is most welcome,
Baz

Reference 2. Something we do, sorry, SWMBO does, but with my
assistance, is to take a trench out where veg plants are going, and
line it with plenty of layers of old newspapers, soak them well, then
cover with organic material from the compost bin then soil. We find
that the soil doesn't dry out so quickly. Well it does on the surface
but paper and compost retains moisture lower down. Fantastic for
Runner Beans :-))

Mike



Good advice, Mike

Time I started collecting newspapers, flyers etc.
Do you tear them up or shred?
How thick is too thick a layer also how thin is too thin?

Also what does this mean? SWMBO

Baz

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"'Mike'" wrote in
:



"Baz" wrote in message
...
Over the last year or two I have been pleased to take advice from
users of this group, but I still need help and advice with two
niggling problems which if solved would be very nice, to say the
least.

1 Whitefly on brassicas. THE problem.
2 Soil. (light)Mine does not retain moisture despite adding lots of
organic
material and have to water every day in summer with a hosepipe when
permitted. This is mainly potatoes which need the water I have found.

All advice is most welcome,
Baz

Reference 2. Something we do, sorry, SWMBO does, but with my
assistance, is to take a trench out where veg plants are going, and
line it with plenty of layers of old newspapers, soak them well, then
cover with organic material from the compost bin then soil. We find
that the soil doesn't dry out so quickly. Well it does on the surface
but paper and compost retains moisture lower down. Fantastic for
Runner Beans :-))

Mike



Good advice, Mike

Time I started collecting newspapers, flyers etc.
Do you tear them up or shred?
How thick is too thick a layer also how thin is too thin?

Also what does this mean? SWMBO

Baz

We just lay them in. Shredded paper goes into the compost heap :-))

Thickness? Half an inch or more. Never really given it much thought ;-) Put
too much in and as it rots down the surface will sink too much, that is why
we don't put shreddings in.

SWMBO? She Who Must Be Obeyed ;-) She is the gardener, over 40 years
experience of flower gardening. We have in the past opened our garden to the
public for a charity function organised by our local Parish Council much to
the amusement to this newsgroup because our 'gardens' are only small.
'Gardens' because the garden is divided up into 'small rooms'. One of the
visitors said that one of the TV Gardening progs might be interested!! SWMBO
not too impressed with that :-(

Mike



--

....................................
Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive
....................................