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Poor old Farmers ............ again :-(
On Jun 3, 10:46*am, Martin wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 10:20:49 +0100, "Ian B" wrote: Sacha wrote: On 2011-06-02 23:41:36 +0100, "Ian B" said: Sacha wrote: On 2011-06-02 22:11:03 +0100, "Ian B" said: Bill Grey wrote: "Ian B" wrote in message k... Roger Tonkin wrote: In article , says... Why why WHY do the farmers ALWAYS bleat hard times time and time again? Have you ever seen a poor farmer? There are plenty of them around here, where hill farming of sheep is the only possibility. Also we know that dairy farmers get less per lire for their milk than it takes to produce (unless you run a super farm!). Then why are they producing it? Something economically wrong there, isn't there? at Ian Supermarkets provide *a ready market for them but dictate the amount they are going to pay for their produce. *One very good reason why farmers are sometimes desperate. You can't sell goods for less than your production costs. If farmer A can't produce milk for price X, and farmer B can, then all that can happen is farmer A leaves the milk production market. That's how economic growth occurs, with the better supplier knocking the inferior supplier out of the market. Which is often unpleasant for the individuals concerned, but ultimately good for everyone. The thing is, nobody can "dictate" a price. I can say I'll only pay £100 for a Ferrari, but I can't make Ferrari sell me one for that price. Likewise if the supermarkets demand milk at a cheaper price than it can be produced, they will get no milk, because there won't be any producers at that price. Any farmer foolish enough to sell milk at below cost must be cross-subsidising it from some profitable enterprise, e.g. crops or sheep or something. He needs to get out of the cow juice business. He's destroying value in the economy, and in his own bank account. Ian 'Leaving a market" means the farmer has to sell his cows or have them put down. *For many/most, this is a heart breaking decision so they soldier on, hoping things will improve. *If they do get out and turn to e.g. beef farming, all that does is widen the door for the big buyers who dictate the prices to bring in milk from abroad. When it's our only source of supply as all domestic sources have gone, do you think it will still be cheap? This applies, of course, to all our food producers. *If you want to be in the hands of giant chains and foreign producers, this is the right way to go about it. Sacha, any business failure is heartbreaking. Back in the 70s, my dad was stupid enough to try to run a (taxi) business under a Labour government. It failed. So did my parents' marriage. Our home was taken by the bank. I ended up in a borassically skint one parent family. You can't keep propping up businesses on emotive arguments about doe-eyed cows and sad farmers. snip I don't know why you use that analogy because I don't. *I'm talking hard business. If we see all our farmers go out of business because supermarkets are forcing down the price to the farmer, then we'll be the long-term users. *It has nothing to do with doe-eyed cows. But as for the farmers, it is a heart-breaking decision. *All the farmers I know would tell you it's a way of life, not just a job, 9-5. Frankly, I don'tk now why anyone would want to do it for so little reward in the end. It's not just "hard business" when we start into the heart-breaking way of life stuff. It was heartbreaking when my dad's business failed. It's going to be heartbreaking if mine does, and things are dicey at the moment but, like those farmers, I'm soldiering on in the hope of improvement. But you can't expect a business to be propped up if it's not competitive.. And what we seem to be down to here is that these farmers just aren't competitive. Somebody is producing cheap milk, and it isn't them. They're in a business selling a fungible product at wholesale, and that's always been dicey and always will be. One pint of milk is much like another. It all ends up in a tanker heading off to the bottling plant. All that matters is the price. And industries like that tend to end up with a few large players over time, because of their economies of scale. Take your business; you're in retail. You can build up customer relationships. You can compete on product quality. You can compete on service. You can get loyal customers who care about more than price. None of that can really apply to milk. EIther you can grow cows as cheap as the next guy, or you can't. The fact that a guy wants with all his heart to be a dairy farmer, because his dad was, and his grandad, that just doesn't matter to the ultimate end buyer in Sainsburys. As the market seeks out the cheapest suppliers, Sainsburys woman gets cheaper milk, and that's all she's going to care about. If these people go out of business, we're all long-term winners, not long-term losers. It's why economic growth happens, and we can all afford to spend money on fripperies like our gardens; because over the centuries, millions of people lost their businesses and jobs. It's harsh, but better than the alternatives by far. Report back after your job has been transferred to a third world country. -- Martin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Like Birmingham Council. |
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