In article ,
Sacha wrote:
On 2012-09-16 17:04:28 +0100, "Kate Morgan" said:

Plant a mixture of coppiceable natives: hazel, oak, beech, ash,
maple etc., let them establish, plant some bulbs underneath, and
sell the coppicing for firewood (or give it away) whenever it
needs it. Minimal hassle, maximum ecological benefit, and a lot
of recreational value.

I do like this suggestion very much Nick but I don't think that I know
enough about the management side of it to try.
Xmas trees would be a no no, I had nearly all my holly stolen last year
:-( You are half right Sacha, I can see half of the ground from our
upstairs windows .

What very bad luck, Kate. For want of a bit of honesty, eh?! I wonder
if you can use it in partnership with e.g. a local school?

Holly is even more prone to theft than Christmas trees, but it
could be grown safely in the middle of a wood :-) You could
almost certainly get advice from a suitable conservation charity,
and the management work is FAR easy than you imagine! The point
is that there is almost none, short of getting the trees to the
point that they can shade out the undergrowth - woodland (and
coppicing is really just that) is the natural ecology of most of
the UK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Holly is even more prone to theft than Christmas trees, but it
could be grown safely in the middle of a wood :-) You could
almost certainly get advice from a suitable conservation charity,
and the management work is FAR easy than you imagine! The point
is that there is almost none, short of getting the trees to the
point that they can shade out the undergrowth - woodland (and
coppicing is really just that) is the natural ecology of most of
the UK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

That is very encouraging Nick, I will give it some thought and maybe as
Sacha suggests I could find someone who would be interested in helping me
:-)

kate

In article ,
Kate Morgan wrote:

Holly is even more prone to theft than Christmas trees, but it
could be grown safely in the middle of a wood :-) You could
almost certainly get advice from a suitable conservation charity,
and the management work is FAR easy than you imagine! The point
is that there is almost none, short of getting the trees to the
point that they can shade out the undergrowth - woodland (and
coppicing is really just that) is the natural ecology of most of
the UK.

That is very encouraging Nick, I will give it some thought and maybe as
Sacha suggests I could find someone who would be interested in helping me
:-)

I think that you will be able to, especially if you ask some of the
conservation organisations. Coppiced woodland is a threatened
ecology. Your biggest problem will be if you have a bad deer
problem, in getting the trees above deer height. I have asked my
brother (who is a forester) for confirmation of what I have said,
but I don't think I am exaggerating the low hassle after the initial
hurdle. And coppicing needs to be done only every couple of decades,
depending on the tree, and my understanding is that people will pay
you to do it for the firewood.

The main key is don't expect it necessarily to be neat or pretty,
because that DOES take effort. When coppiced, most people will
just leave the small branches in heaps, but they rot fast enough,
and that's what happens in natural woodland.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 09/16/2012 06:04 PM, Kate Morgan wrote:
snip
Plant a mixture of coppiceable natives: hazel, oak, beech, ash,
maple etc., let them establish, plant some bulbs underneath, and
sell the coppicing for firewood (or give it away) whenever it
needs it. Minimal hassle, maximum ecological benefit, and a lot
of recreational value.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I do like this suggestion very much Nick but I don't think that I know
enough about the management side of it to try.
Xmas trees would be a no no, I had nearly all my holly stolen last year
:-( You are half right Sacha, I can see half of the ground from our
upstairs windows .



How about poplars, is it wet enough?

I do like this suggestion very much Nick but I don't think that I know
enough about the management side of it to try.
Xmas trees would be a no no, I had nearly all my holly stolen last year
:-( You are half right Sacha, I can see half of the ground from our
upstairs windows .



How about poplars, is it wet enough?


Why not plant willow then coppice it every 4 or 5 years for fuel, or
take up basket making.

In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I do like this suggestion very much Nick but I don't think that I know
enough about the management side of it to try.

How about poplars, is it wet enough?

Why not plant willow then coppice it every 4 or 5 years for fuel, or
take up basket making.

Both poplars and willows make ghastly fuel - they are murder to
keep going in an open fire unless very dry, in which case they
burn up in no time at all. There are lots of much better trees
and shrubs, except for very boggy ground.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
o.uk...


snip

I have found this topic very interesting, I have a bit of land -not quite
half an acre - doing nothing and I was wondering about offering it for
someone to use as an allotment. Reading the comments it might be more
trouble than it is worth. My husband suggested planting with fruit trees
but that makes even more work. Hopefully I will get inspired over the
winter :-)

kate

It all depends who you get if you offer your land out. I was very prepared
to let a local beekeeper who approached me to put his bees on there to do
so, but he went off in a huff when he said he would only do so if I let him
have a plot too and I said not yet.
He would have to share this 1/3rd acre with myself and my brother and we
needed to see if we got along. Had he agreed to put his bees on there, and
he was nice, we would probably have agreed that he could have a plot next
year.
He shot himself in the foot. More so because he now cannot keep bees where
he lives as his garden is too small and my land is approximately 30 yards
from his house.

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
o.uk...


snip

I have found this topic very interesting, I have a bit of land -not quite
half an acre - doing nothing and I was wondering about offering it for
someone to use as an allotment. Reading the comments it might be more
trouble than it is worth. My husband suggested planting with fruit trees
but that makes even more work. Hopefully I will get inspired over the
winter :-)

kate


Depends on your age. How about a couple of goats? I kept goats for 20
years. If you don't want the bother of milking, get two neutered males who
will not only keep the land nice with zero weeds but provide you with plenty
of compost material from their hut.
If you are young enough to do milking twice a day and make cheese and butter
go for the girl goats ;-)

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:45:28 PM UTC+1, Christina Websell wrote:
meow2222 wrote in message

...

Hi people





I'm not sure what to think of this... what would you make of it? An offer

from a private landowner of an allotment, of size whatever I want upto
2.5x

the standard old allotment size, or 5x the new half size plots. No water

supply, price the same per given area as local council plots without water

supply. Lenient terms when it comes to growing small trees and tidying up

the grossly overgrown plot. No shed permitted but lockup tool stores ok.

Access paths already in place. No restriction to just one plot as with the

council. The biggest issues as I see it are that some of the land is
steeply

sloping, and I do mean steep, and probably only therefore fit for bushes
and

trees, plus the fact that its grossly overgrown, and will need a quantity
of

small trees cleared.



Feedback welcome





----------

I'd be a bit worried in case he used you to clear the plot and then threw

you off after a year or so.

I have a 3rd of an acre plot which are growing veggies on this year. Lots

of people in the village want a piece of it as there are no allotments.

Half of it is still overgrown, and I expect they would clear it, but
whether

or not I would like them and want them as permanent is a moot point, so I

haven't agreed. It has water!

If you can get security of tenure, I would say go ahead, if not, proceed

with care.

I could easily promise a few people an allotment, let them clear the land

and throw them off after a year - I wouldn't do that, but some people
might.


I've worked out how to lay water on. Plastic land drain pipe near the low
end of the slope, led out to a waterbutt sat atop a soakaway.

The other question is, what length of secure tenure would be needed to make
this runnable. Bearing in mind one end is steeply sloped, and will need
precautions taking when cleared/planted, so only practical for perennials.
The steep slope is probably around 20/25% of total area, the rest being
flat. And I do mean steep.


----------
Don't get too excited unless you have security of tenure. I can't answer
your question about what length of tenure would be needed, you have to work
the maths out yourself. It might be a genuine offer, but I repeat, be
careful in case he wants his land improved and then will then throw you off
after letting you
grow veggies there for a year.

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 9:03:25 PM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:52:58 PM UTC+1, Bob Hobden wrote:

NT wrote







I'm not sure what to think of this... what would you make of it? An offer



from a private landowner of an allotment, of size whatever I want upto 2.5x



the standard old allotment size, or 5x the new half size plots. No water



supply, price the same per given area as local council plots without water



supply. Lenient terms when it comes to growing small trees and tidying up



the grossly overgrown plot. No shed permitted but lockup tool stores ok.



Access paths already in place. No restriction to just one plot as with the



council. The biggest issues as I see it are that some of the land is



steeply sloping, and I do mean steep, and probably only therefore fit for



bushes and trees, plus the fact that its grossly overgrown, and will need a



quantity of small trees cleared.







Feedback welcome















With a Council plot you have a certain security of tenure unless you do



something wrong, what security will you have on that plot? You don't want to



clear it all, set it all up, and then get chucked off.



No water supply could be a serious problem, in fact I know it would not be



worth having a plot here without water. Even this year we have spend hours,



days if you add it up, carrying watering cans back and forth. No stream you



could chuck a solar powered pump in to fill some barrels?



Small trees have big roots, might be a big job to remove, the ground might



also be depleted but a good dose of well rotted cow/horse manure would cure



that. The slope could be terraced.



Planting fruit trees is a long term project so we are back to my first



point.



I've not questioned the security of tenure yet.

Re water, at one end the sloping patches could be guttered to collect muddy water. The rest of the plot's flat though.

I forgot to mention the first year would be free on account of the clearing needed, but its a big job to clear.

Re trees, I was only thinking in terms of chopping them down. Digging up the roots of lots of trees is too much work I think.



thanks





NT

I'm trying to work out what would be fair. What length of secure tenure would you want to take such an offer up?


NT

On 09/17/2012 08:22 PM, wrote:
In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I do like this suggestion very much Nick but I don't think that I know
enough about the management side of it to try.

How about poplars, is it wet enough?

Why not plant willow then coppice it every 4 or 5 years for fuel, or
take up basket making.

Both poplars and willows make ghastly fuel - they are murder to
keep going in an open fire unless very dry, in which case they
burn up in no time at all. There are lots of much better trees
and shrubs, except for very boggy ground.

Agreed, though I do get rid of larger willow branches in the wood stove.
What fits goes through the shredder.

I was thinking about the poplar as an investment, I believe there is
some market for it and the turn around is only around 20 years.

NT wrote

I'm trying to work out what would be fair. What length of secure tenure
would you want to take such an offer up?



If you are thinking of planting fruit trees I would think 10 years at least.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

snip

I have found this topic very interesting, I have a bit of land -not quite
half an acre - doing nothing and I was wondering about offering it for
someone to use as an allotment. Reading the comments it might be more
trouble than it is worth. My husband suggested planting with fruit trees
but that makes even more work. Hopefully I will get inspired over the
winter :-)

kate

I still like Nicks suggestion, we have no deer so that would be O.K. altho
we do have a pony who can open gates sometimes, she eats all sorts of things
:-)
Poplars, the ground is dry and I cant wait for 20 years :-))
Willow would look good but I am afraid that Christina got nearest the truth
when she mentions age, I am afraid that 10 years ago I could do everything -
or thought that I could - but now I know that I cant, but never mind I will
continue to think about it, this afternoon I sat under the pear tree on the
piece of land in question and promptly fell asleep :-)))

kate

thanks to all

wrote in message ...
In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I do like this suggestion very much Nick but I don't think that I know
enough about the management side of it to try.

How about poplars, is it wet enough?

Why not plant willow then coppice it every 4 or 5 years for fuel, or
take up basket making.

Both poplars and willows make ghastly fuel - they are murder to
keep going in an open fire unless very dry, in which case they
burn up in no time at all. There are lots of much better trees
and shrubs, except for very boggy ground.

Poplars and willow are not much good in a woodburner either Ash is best as
you can burn it green if you have to.

In article ,
Christina Websell wrote:

wrote in message ...
In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I do like this suggestion very much Nick but I don't think that I know
enough about the management side of it to try.

How about poplars, is it wet enough?

Why not plant willow then coppice it every 4 or 5 years for fuel, or
take up basket making.

Both poplars and willows make ghastly fuel - they are murder to
keep going in an open fire unless very dry, in which case they
burn up in no time at all. There are lots of much better trees
and shrubs, except for very boggy ground.

Poplars and willow are not much good in a woodburner either Ash is best as
you can burn it green if you have to.

Yes, but hazel, oak, beech, probably lime, chestnut, walnut, plum
and so on (all easily coppiced) are nearly as good.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.