On 04/01/2013 12:56, Janet wrote:
In ,
says...

Good idea. Even better would be honey, if you've got it.

Would there be any risk of of passing on bee diseases? Not all honeys
have been heated.

Janet





Nor are they when bees make them.
I have read that honey contains antibodies which protect bees when they
subsequently eat it. When we 'steal' their supply, we're also stealing
that protection, as well as a valuable food supply. It is only my
(probably unpopular) opinion, but I think that whilst bees are going
through this serious crisis (of varoa mites and colony collapse), we
should stop harvesting their honey - or at least ration what we take -
until they fully recover.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 04/01/2013 13:14, Martin wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:07:22 +0000, wrote:

On 04/01/2013 12:56, Janet wrote:
In ,
says...

Good idea. Even better would be honey, if you've got it.

Would there be any risk of of passing on bee diseases? Not all honeys
have been heated.

Janet





Nor are they when bees make them.
I have read that honey contains antibodies which protect bees when they
subsequently eat it. When we 'steal' their supply, we're also stealing
that protection, as well as a valuable food supply. It is only my
(probably unpopular) opinion, but I think that whilst bees are going
through this serious crisis (of varoa mites and colony collapse), we
should stop harvesting their honey - or at least ration what we take -
until they fully recover.

Bacteria can't live in honey.



It depends on what you read. Even the two links below argue with each
other:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...angeredspecies

http://www.aschoonerofscience.com/re...ills-bacteria/

I can't find the article I originally read, unfortunately.
I still say we should ration the honey (and royal jelly) we take from
bees. They produce it because they need it, now more than ever. If I
could keep bees, I would, but our immediate neighbour's daughter has
been rushed to hospital a few times with anaphylactic shock, so bees may
be a risk too far.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

Whether bumbles are susceptible to such diseases, I don't know, but
personally I wouldn't want to take the risk. If you must feed them,
stick to sugar syrup or even better, diluted Golden Syrup, as much of
the sucrose has already been converted to glucose and fructose.

Is it a good idea to put out feed like that, or leave them to their own
resources?
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On 04/01/2013 14:19, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-01-04 12:28:49 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/2013 23:24, Ophelia wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:41:51 +0000, The Original Jake
wrote:


I thought I saw a bee earlier today but it turned out to be a rather
overweight bluebottle. Still a bit early I think.

Had a Bumble bee flying around around on Wednesday,
Quite lively as well so I hope it was able to find some food somewhere
to replace the energy it was using.

Could you put out some sugar water or something to attract it? I know
nothing about it btw, just a thought.

Ooh yes! That sounds like a better idea
--

Actually, I wouldn't use honey. If it's in any way 'contaminated'
because it's foreign produce or mixed with foreign produce, or if it
comes from bees that may have some disease that doesn't affect humans,
'your' bee will get it. And all commercial honeys are treated A
sugar/water solution is safer and here's why:

"Sugar or honey feeding? Many consider that there are less solids in
sugar, therefore the bees have less feces to vent during cleansing
flights. You can feed honey waste etc. from the autumn extracting, but
you should not use heated honey in any form, otherwise dysentery is
almost guaranteed. The alternative thinking is that sugar has little
nutritional value, so honey is really the better winter feed if you are
willing leave it for them. You can make your own mix of sugar and honey
to produce a useful winter feed.
When the weather is reliably milder towards the end of March a liquid
feed and pollen substitute can be fed to give colonies a boost and
encourage queen activity.
You can make your own feeds without much fuss by using these easy to
follow recipes for winter feeds.
â–ª Heavy Syrup Suitable liquid pre-winter feed
â–ª Light Syrup Suitable liquid supplementary and swarm feed
â–ª Candy Suitable solid feed for late winter / early spring
â–ª Fondant Suitable for winter feed
â–ª Sugar / Honey Mix Suitable for winter feed
http://www.edinburghbeekeepers.org.uk/winter_feeds.html

NB Where the above para says "you can feed honey waste from the autumn
extracting" they are, of course, talking of pure honey from the colony's
own hive so nothing it hasn't made itself!



That's really interesting, Sacha. I loved that link.
Well, perhaps feeding them honey is not such a good idea, but leaving
them with the fullness of their own supplies, is, to my mind. Your bees
may vary ;~).


--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 04/01/2013 13:52, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:07:22 +0000, wrote:

On 04/01/2013 12:56, Janet wrote:
In ,
says...

Good idea. Even better would be honey, if you've got it.

Would there be any risk of of passing on bee diseases? Not all honeys
have been heated.

Janet





Nor are they when bees make them.
I have read that honey contains antibodies which protect bees when they
subsequently eat it. When we 'steal' their supply, we're also stealing
that protection, as well as a valuable food supply. It is only my
(probably unpopular) opinion, but I think that whilst bees are going
through this serious crisis (of varoa mites and colony collapse), we
should stop harvesting their honey - or at least ration what we take -
until they fully recover.

As a one-time beekeeper, I can say it was regarded as extremely bad
practice to feed honey bees with honey from unknown sources, which
meant just about any honey except that from your own hives. Most of
the popular honey available in supermarkets etc. comes from abroad,
where bee diseases are endemic. If fed to UK colonies can infect them
with various fungal, bacterial and viral diseases. The bane of
beekeepers were well-meaning but uninformed members of the public who
would buy a jar of imported honey to feed to the bees in their
gardens.

Whether bumbles are susceptible to such diseases, I don't know, but
personally I wouldn't want to take the risk. If you must feed them,
stick to sugar syrup or even better, diluted Golden Syrup, as much of
the sucrose has already been converted to glucose and fructose.



I'm happy bow to your superior knowledge, Chris. You'll be relieved to
know that I've never fed honey to bees. By the time I start seeing
bees, I've got flowering plants to support them.

I'm also happy to note that you say honey from their own hives
(paraphrased) *is* appropriate. It's exactly what I've been saying: the
bees need their own supply of honey and we should respect that. As it
happens, I no longer enjoy eating honey, so they're welcome to my sha~).

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 04/01/2013 14:50, Martin wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 14:36:27 +0000, wrote:

On 04/01/2013 13:14, Martin wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:07:22 +0000, wrote:

On 04/01/2013 12:56, Janet wrote:
In ,
says...

Good idea. Even better would be honey, if you've got it.

Would there be any risk of of passing on bee diseases? Not all honeys
have been heated.

Janet





Nor are they when bees make them.
I have read that honey contains antibodies which protect bees when they
subsequently eat it. When we 'steal' their supply, we're also stealing
that protection, as well as a valuable food supply. It is only my
(probably unpopular) opinion, but I think that whilst bees are going
through this serious crisis (of varoa mites and colony collapse), we
should stop harvesting their honey - or at least ration what we take -
until they fully recover.

Bacteria can't live in honey.



It depends on what you read. Even the two links below argue with each
other:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...angeredspecies

spores maybe.


Paragraph No7 suggests bacteria as well.



http://www.aschoonerofscience.com/re...ills-bacteria/

I can't find the article I originally read, unfortunately.
I still say we should ration the honey (and royal jelly) we take from
bees. They produce it because they need it, now more than ever. If I
could keep bees, I would, but our immediate neighbour's daughter has
been rushed to hospital a few times with anaphylactic shock, so bees may
be a risk too far.

Sugar is used to preserve fruit, because bacteria can't live in it. I
assumed that the same applies to honey. Honey is a form of sugar


Indeed, I knew about the sugar bit, but honey does seem to have some
bacteria present, which I wasn't aware of previously.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Sacha" wrote in message
...

That's really interesting, Sacha. I loved that link.
Well, perhaps feeding them honey is not such a good idea, but leaving
them with the fullness of their own supplies, is, to my mind. Your bees
may vary ;~).

I no longer have bees but I'm inclined to agree with you, at least this
last year and probably 2013, too. They had such a rotten cold winter, then
a horrible wet summer!

I have friends in Yugoslavia who keep bees. They seemed to take all the
honey and during the winter feed them sugar water. That is possibly where I
got the idea to feed that bee with that. I had forgotten till now
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-01-04 14:40:32 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

Whether bumbles are susceptible to such diseases, I don't know, but
personally I wouldn't want to take the risk. If you must feed them,
stick to sugar syrup or even better, diluted Golden Syrup, as much of
the sucrose has already been converted to glucose and fructose.

Is it a good idea to put out feed like that, or leave them to their own
resources?
--

There's a fair amount around for them now, which is why they come out to
forage. It's also why so many winter flowering plants smell so sweetly,
btw. That attracts insects when there aren't too many about and there's
competition among plants for pollination. If you look at the recent lists
of plants flowering in many gardens now, you'll see there are quite a few
food sources. For example, on a decent day weather-wise, we often see
bumble bees on the Lonicera purpusii beside our front door. Honeybees are
much more rarely seen.

I haven't seen bees for ages here, perhaps we will do better down in
England
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 14:40:32 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
. ..

Whether bumbles are susceptible to such diseases, I don't know, but
personally I wouldn't want to take the risk. If you must feed them,
stick to sugar syrup or even better, diluted Golden Syrup, as much of
the sucrose has already been converted to glucose and fructose.

Is it a good idea to put out feed like that, or leave them to their own
resources?
--

TBH, even if you did put out sugar syrup or similar, at this time of
year I don't think you'd get many takers. When a beekeeper feeds his
bees, he uses a specially adapted tray that fits inside the hive so
that the bees have direct access to it. A solution of table sugar, or
variants of it such as fondant or invert sugar, are used. If he wants
to feed them their own honey, it's either put into such a tray or
whole combs that the beekeeper has kept in reserve are used, which are
hung in the hive in place of empty ones. Bees get very excited when
fed honey!

Most nectar-feeding insects are programmed to seek out flowers, and
unless they come upon a different source of sugar by chance, they're
unlikely to be attracted to it specifically, especially as plain sugar
solution has no 'smell'. Flowers have stripes on the petals that
reflect UV light that bees can see but we can't, that guide the bees
to the centre of the flower where the nectar is.

Yes, that makes sense. Why would they be interested in a dull old pot of
sugar water

Having said that, in warmer climes, the southern states of America for
example, people attract humming birds to their gardens by hanging up
special feeders that have a large brightly-coloured plastic flower
backed by a reservoir that holds the 'nectar' (simply sugar syrup). I
saw on the telly only a day or two ago, similar arrangements for
feeding tropical butterflies in a butterfly house; several obviously
plastic flowers distributed up some sort of vine, with exotic
butterflies feeding. You could try such an arrangement with the hope
that you might attract a few bumbles. There are some instructions on
making a butterfly feeder on the RSPCA site, at
http://tinyurl.com/bcpz6hq I think I'd use a piece of brightly
coloured plastic, yellow or blue, in place of the card, and devise
some other reservoir rather than a golf tee. Note the use of a UV pen
in Part 1 to guide the bees to the 'nectar' (sugar syrup). Or google
for 'butterfly feeder'.

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to share that!!!!!! That
is great information and I have very much enjoyed reading it))
I will certainly have a look at that site Thanks again!

--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...


I haven't seen bees for ages here, perhaps we will do better down in
England

Where is here?

Phil
(A Scottish beekeeper whose bees were flying today)

"Phil Gurr" wrote in message
...

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...


I haven't seen bees for ages here, perhaps we will do better down in
England

Where is here?

Phil
(A Scottish beekeeper whose bees were flying today)

Central belt ... for now!
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...


"Phil Gurr" wrote in message
...

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...


I haven't seen bees for ages here, perhaps we will do better down in
England

Where is here?

Phil
(A Scottish beekeeper whose bees were flying today)

Central belt ... for now!

Ah, 200 miles south of here!

Phil

"Phil Gurr" wrote in message
...

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...


"Phil Gurr" wrote in message
...

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...


I haven't seen bees for ages here, perhaps we will do better down in
England

Where is here?

Phil
(A Scottish beekeeper whose bees were flying today)

Central belt ... for now!

Ah, 200 miles south of here!

Yes! We do have a property in Moray, but we just don't manage to get there
very often It has a decent garden too but ... work intrudes

--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Ophelia" wrote in message ...



"Martin" wrote in message
...

Whatever someone posts in another group has no business being copied into
other groups to mock or deride another poster, nor to stir up trouble, as
indeed this one was.

Every one of us is free to post where and when we wish and we do NOT have
to
answer or explain to anyone in any other group, unless it is directly
their
business, nor indeed ask for permission.

There's still the problem of the two Bazs we have posting here.

Maybe there is, I don't know. I am talking about copying posts and the
trouble it caused!
Are there two?

When I read your words "Final comment", I fell off the chair and pinched
myself several to check if I was dreaming.
I'm now covered from head to toe with bruises.
Happy New Year Oh. -

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-01-04 16:53:09 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...

That's really interesting, Sacha. I loved that link.
Well, perhaps feeding them honey is not such a good idea, but leaving
them with the fullness of their own supplies, is, to my mind. Your
bees
may vary ;~).

I no longer have bees but I'm inclined to agree with you, at least this
last year and probably 2013, too. They had such a rotten cold winter,
then
a horrible wet summer!

I have friends in Yugoslavia who keep bees. They seemed to take all the
honey and during the winter feed them sugar water. That is possibly
where I
got the idea to feed that bee with that. I had forgotten till now
--

I suspect different practices depend on different beliefs, as well as
different climates. When I had bees, we took the honey off in late July.
This gave the bees plenty of time to build up a stock for themselves for
the winter, too. But if it was a very cold winter (unusual in Jersey) we
gave them a sugar syrup solution. I only had one hive and the least I
ever had was 25lbs in one season and the most around 80lbs. They were an
amazingly good strain and both well-behaved and highly productive.

I expect you are right. I don't really know how much they took off, but
whenever I was there in the winter Josko went out with his bottles of sugar
water to feed them.
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/