On 2014-01-25 13:10:27 +0000, Martin said:

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 13:03:46 +0000, sacha wrote:

On 2014-01-25 10:46:34 +0000, David Hill said:

On 24/01/2014 10:39, Sacha wrote:
The island's tomato production has almost ground to a halt and it used
to be its lifeblood. Thank goodness for the finance industry and I never
thought I'd hear myself say that! Anthony Le Page who employs 15 workers
on his 2ha glasshouses in the Vale is closing down. The stretch of water
between England and the islands is one of the significant causes. About
50 years ago, the tomato growing employed more than half the island's
population.


(This got lost first time I posted it, probably because I've changed
from XP pro to windows 7)

Now, come on Sacha.
It's by no means another British industry hitting the buffers, rather
the tomato industry in the UK is on the up and up, with sites like
Thanet Earth and several mega units using combined heat and power
plants, and waste heat to heat the houses; if you can call those multi
hectare structures houses; to produce all year round tomatoes, and
going by some I bought in Tesco last week #; not those stupid little
things; they had good flavour for winter tomatoes.
When you have these mega houses just down the road so to speak, and not
over some very choppy water, and with production 2 or 3 times per sq
meter than it used to be in "The good old days"it's time for Guernsey
to look for much higher value produce.
I remember in my younger day we used to get £1.00 a pound for the first
tomatoes, but that never lasted more than a couple of weeks, likewise
with the first Strawberries, and that was 50+ years ago. Today no one
would pay the modern equivalent price.
David @ the side of Swansea Bay where it is yet again raining.

Oh, all the reasons for the growing industry coming to a natural end
are perfectly logical ones. And the finance industry has taken over in
terms of island prosperity and so forth. I'm having a nostalgic moment.
Do you know which tomatoes you bought from Tesco? I have yet to find
any worth having!

In NL Lidl consistently wins the best fruit and veg award.

The nearest Lidl for us is about half an hour's drive away, more in
heavy traffic. It's the sort of shopping I'd do if I was going over in
that direction anyway to e.g. M&S, Next, Mothercare etc. which are in a
nearby complex.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 25/01/2014 13:03, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-25 10:46:34 +0000, David Hill said:

On 24/01/2014 10:39, Sacha wrote:
The island's tomato production has almost ground to a halt and it used
to be its lifeblood. Thank goodness for the finance industry and I never
thought I'd hear myself say that! Anthony Le Page who employs 15 workers
on his 2ha glasshouses in the Vale is closing down. The stretch of water
between England and the islands is one of the significant causes. About
50 years ago, the tomato growing employed more than half the island's
population.


(This got lost first time I posted it, probably because I've changed
from XP pro to windows 7)

Now, come on Sacha.
It's by no means another British industry hitting the buffers, rather
the tomato industry in the UK is on the up and up, with sites like
Thanet Earth and several mega units using combined heat and power
plants, and waste heat to heat the houses; if you can call those multi
hectare structures houses; to produce all year round tomatoes, and
going by some I bought in Tesco last week #; not those stupid little
things; they had good flavour for winter tomatoes.
When you have these mega houses just down the road so to speak, and
not over some very choppy water, and with production 2 or 3 times per
sq meter than it used to be in "The good old days"it's time for
Guernsey to look for much higher value produce.
I remember in my younger day we used to get £1.00 a pound for the
first tomatoes, but that never lasted more than a couple of weeks,
likewise with the first Strawberries, and that was 50+ years ago.
Today no one would pay the modern equivalent price.
David @ the side of Swansea Bay where it is yet again raining.

Oh, all the reasons for the growing industry coming to a natural end are
perfectly logical ones. And the finance industry has taken over in terms
of island prosperity and so forth. I'm having a nostalgic moment. Do you
know which tomatoes you bought from Tesco? I have yet to find any worth
having!


All I can say is that they were vine tomatoes.
Have you noticed that whilst every pack of strawberries from wherever
has the variety on the pack the same is not true of most fruit and veg.
With around 20 varieties of Sprouts being grown commercially they are
not named on the box/pack.
The same for tomatoes and peppers.
David@ a yet again rainy side of Swansea Bay.

On 25/01/2014 15:01, Martin wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 14:02:34 +0000, sacha wrote:

On 2014-01-25 13:10:27 +0000, Martin said:

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 13:03:46 +0000, sacha wrote:

On 2014-01-25 10:46:34 +0000, David Hill said:

On 24/01/2014 10:39, Sacha wrote:
The island's tomato production has almost ground to a halt and it used
to be its lifeblood. Thank goodness for the finance industry and I never
thought I'd hear myself say that! Anthony Le Page who employs 15 workers
on his 2ha glasshouses in the Vale is closing down. The stretch of water
between England and the islands is one of the significant causes. About
50 years ago, the tomato growing employed more than half the island's
population.


(This got lost first time I posted it, probably because I've changed
from XP pro to windows 7)

Now, come on Sacha.
It's by no means another British industry hitting the buffers, rather
the tomato industry in the UK is on the up and up, with sites like
Thanet Earth and several mega units using combined heat and power
plants, and waste heat to heat the houses; if you can call those multi
hectare structures houses; to produce all year round tomatoes, and
going by some I bought in Tesco last week #; not those stupid little
things; they had good flavour for winter tomatoes.
When you have these mega houses just down the road so to speak, and not
over some very choppy water, and with production 2 or 3 times per sq
meter than it used to be in "The good old days"it's time for Guernsey
to look for much higher value produce.
I remember in my younger day we used to get £1.00 a pound for the first
tomatoes, but that never lasted more than a couple of weeks, likewise
with the first Strawberries, and that was 50+ years ago. Today no one
would pay the modern equivalent price.
David @ the side of Swansea Bay where it is yet again raining.

Oh, all the reasons for the growing industry coming to a natural end
are perfectly logical ones. And the finance industry has taken over in
terms of island prosperity and so forth. I'm having a nostalgic moment.
Do you know which tomatoes you bought from Tesco? I have yet to find
any worth having!

In NL Lidl consistently wins the best fruit and veg award.

The nearest Lidl for us is about half an hour's drive away, more in
heavy traffic. It's the sort of shopping I'd do if I was going over in
that direction anyway to e.g. M&S, Next, Mothercare etc. which are in a
nearby complex.

OTOH just because fruit and veg are fresh in Lidl NL, doesn't mean it will be
where you are. In Lidl Whitby the bread always seemed to be stale.


Strange isn't it. Lidl and Aldi both seem to sell more fresh British
produce than the big 4 supermarkets.

On 2014-01-25 15:01:32 +0000, Martin said:

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 14:02:34 +0000, sacha wrote:
snip

In NL Lidl consistently wins the best fruit and veg award.

The nearest Lidl for us is about half an hour's drive away, more in
heavy traffic. It's the sort of shopping I'd do if I was going over in
that direction anyway to e.g. M&S, Next, Mothercare etc. which are in a
nearby complex.

OTOH just because fruit and veg are fresh in Lidl NL, doesn't mean it will be
where you are. In Lidl Whitby the bread always seemed to be stale.

Oh certainly but it is worth having a look as I've read mainly good
reports. But as I say, it would be a combined trip, not a dedicated
one.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 2014-01-25 15:14:59 +0000, David Hill said:

On 25/01/2014 13:03, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-25 10:46:34 +0000, David Hill said:

On 24/01/2014 10:39, Sacha wrote:
The island's tomato production has almost ground to a halt and it used
to be its lifeblood. Thank goodness for the finance industry and I never
thought I'd hear myself say that! Anthony Le Page who employs 15 workers
on his 2ha glasshouses in the Vale is closing down. The stretch of water
between England and the islands is one of the significant causes. About
50 years ago, the tomato growing employed more than half the island's
population.


(This got lost first time I posted it, probably because I've changed
from XP pro to windows 7)

Now, come on Sacha.
It's by no means another British industry hitting the buffers, rather
the tomato industry in the UK is on the up and up, with sites like
Thanet Earth and several mega units using combined heat and power
plants, and waste heat to heat the houses; if you can call those multi
hectare structures houses; to produce all year round tomatoes, and
going by some I bought in Tesco last week #; not those stupid little
things; they had good flavour for winter tomatoes.
When you have these mega houses just down the road so to speak, and
not over some very choppy water, and with production 2 or 3 times per
sq meter than it used to be in "The good old days"it's time for
Guernsey to look for much higher value produce.
I remember in my younger day we used to get £1.00 a pound for the
first tomatoes, but that never lasted more than a couple of weeks,
likewise with the first Strawberries, and that was 50+ years ago.
Today no one would pay the modern equivalent price.
David @ the side of Swansea Bay where it is yet again raining.

Oh, all the reasons for the growing industry coming to a natural end are
perfectly logical ones. And the finance industry has taken over in terms
of island prosperity and so forth. I'm having a nostalgic moment. Do you
know which tomatoes you bought from Tesco? I have yet to find any worth
having!


All I can say is that they were vine tomatoes.
Have you noticed that whilst every pack of strawberries from wherever
has the variety on the pack the same is not true of most fruit and veg.
With around 20 varieties of Sprouts being grown commercially they are
not named on the box/pack.
The same for tomatoes and peppers.
David@ a yet again rainy side of Swansea Bay.

I do all my supermarket shopping online and in the case of Tesco have
asked them to show country of origin at least three times. It never
happens clearly enough on the online packs.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Sacha" wrote in message ...

The island's tomato production has almost ground to a halt and it used
to be its lifeblood. Thank goodness for the finance industry and I
never thought I'd hear myself say that! Anthony Le Page who employs 15
workers on his 2ha glasshouses in the Vale is closing down. The stretch
of water between England and the islands is one of the significant
causes. About 50 years ago, the tomato growing employed more than half
the island's population.

--

Sacha

================================================== ===


Doing very well on the Isle of Wight :-)

http://www.wightsaladsgroup.com/about/facts-figures/

Mike

---------------------------------------------------------------
www.friendsofshanklintheatre.co.uk
www.hmscollingwoodassociation.com
www.rneba.org.uk
www.nsrafa.org

On 26/01/2014 09:31, Jimmy Dawkins wrote:
Morrocco now supplies 75% (ish) of ALL tomoatoes bought in Northern
Europe....

Where did you get that figure?

On 25/01/2014 23:16, Sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-25 15:14:59 +0000, David Hill said:

On 25/01/2014 13:03, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-25 10:46:34 +0000, David Hill said:

On 24/01/2014 10:39, Sacha wrote:
The island's tomato production has almost ground to a halt and it used
to be its lifeblood. Thank goodness for the finance industry and I
never
thought I'd hear myself say that! Anthony Le Page who employs 15
workers
on his 2ha glasshouses in the Vale is closing down. The stretch of
water
between England and the islands is one of the significant causes.
About
50 years ago, the tomato growing employed more than half the island's
population.


(This got lost first time I posted it, probably because I've changed
from XP pro to windows 7)

Now, come on Sacha.
It's by no means another British industry hitting the buffers, rather
the tomato industry in the UK is on the up and up, with sites like
Thanet Earth and several mega units using combined heat and power
plants, and waste heat to heat the houses; if you can call those multi
hectare structures houses; to produce all year round tomatoes, and
going by some I bought in Tesco last week #; not those stupid little
things; they had good flavour for winter tomatoes.
When you have these mega houses just down the road so to speak, and
not over some very choppy water, and with production 2 or 3 times per
sq meter than it used to be in "The good old days"it's time for
Guernsey to look for much higher value produce.
I remember in my younger day we used to get £1.00 a pound for the
first tomatoes, but that never lasted more than a couple of weeks,
likewise with the first Strawberries, and that was 50+ years ago.
Today no one would pay the modern equivalent price.
David @ the side of Swansea Bay where it is yet again raining.

Oh, all the reasons for the growing industry coming to a natural end are
perfectly logical ones. And the finance industry has taken over in terms
of island prosperity and so forth. I'm having a nostalgic moment. Do you
know which tomatoes you bought from Tesco? I have yet to find any worth
having!


All I can say is that they were vine tomatoes.
Have you noticed that whilst every pack of strawberries from wherever
has the variety on the pack the same is not true of most fruit and veg.
With around 20 varieties of Sprouts being grown commercially they are
not named on the box/pack.
The same for tomatoes and peppers.
David@ a yet again rainy side of Swansea Bay.

I do all my supermarket shopping online and in the case of Tesco have
asked them to show country of origin at least three times. It never
happens clearly enough on the online packs.

You may find browsing this site will be of interest
http://www.britishtomatoes.co.uk/home

On 26/01/2014 09:54, David Hill wrote:
On 26/01/2014 09:31, Jimmy Dawkins wrote:
Morrocco now supplies 75% (ish) of ALL tomoatoes bought in Northern
Europe....

Where did you get that figure?

The FAO stats have Morocco as the worlds 17th largest producer. However
Italy (7th largest) produces nearly 5 times as much, and Spain (9th
largest) 3 times as much. Russia (12th largest), Ukraine (13th largest)
and Portugal (16th largest) also outproduce Morocco, with Greece (18th
largest) coming in just after.

In North Africa Egypt (5th largest) and Tunisia (15th largest) produce
more than Morocco.

It all depends on how much is produced for domestic consumption and how
much for export, but I would have guessed that Spain was the largest
supplier to northern Europe. In the light of these figures I infer that
there isn't a dominant supplier.

Since Morocco only produces 50% more tomatoes that the Netherlands it
would seem that even if Morocco was the only outside supplier and we
ignored the rest of northern European production (Belgium production is
about a quarter of Dutch production) Morocco couldn't produce more than
60% of the market.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
says...

All year round tomatoes are gonna have to be GM'd...are they not?

No, when climate conditions are right,staggered planting can provide
that (even under artificial heat and light). Year-round tomatoes were in
UK supermarkets decades before genetic modifications.

They are perennial plants in their country of origin.

Interesting...... do you know of any very large producers in Scotland.....?
North Wales....?
North of England....?
If not...why not?

Latitude is not a limitation to growing tomatoes; only the economics
of production costs.

Clyde Valley in Scotland was a major commercial producer of hothouse
tomatoes, a few decades ago when oil/power to heat them was cheap.

Janet.

In article ,
Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

All year round tomatoes are gonna have to be GM'd...are they not?

No, when climate conditions are right,staggered planting can provide
that (even under artificial heat and light). Year-round tomatoes were in
UK supermarkets decades before genetic modifications.

However, the modern supermarket varieties are bred to not ripen
normally, and with other characteristics that make snapdragon
genes almost a welcome addition! I didn't notice a claim about
their taste.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 26/01/2014 10:41, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:30:53 +0000, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

On 26/01/2014 09:54, David Hill wrote:
On 26/01/2014 09:31, Jimmy Dawkins wrote:
Morrocco now supplies 75% (ish) of ALL tomoatoes bought in Northern
Europe....

Where did you get that figure?

The FAO stats have Morocco as the worlds 17th largest producer. However
Italy (7th largest) produces nearly 5 times as much, and Spain (9th
largest) 3 times as much. Russia (12th largest), Ukraine (13th largest)
and Portugal (16th largest) also outproduce Morocco, with Greece (18th
largest) coming in just after.

In North Africa Egypt (5th largest) and Tunisia (15th largest) produce
more than Morocco.

It all depends on how much is produced for domestic consumption and how
much for export, but I would have guessed that Spain was the largest
supplier to northern Europe. In the light of these figures I infer that
there isn't a dominant supplier.

Since Morocco only produces 50% more tomatoes that the Netherlands it
would seem that even if Morocco was the only outside supplier and we
ignored the rest of northern European production (Belgium production is
about a quarter of Dutch production) Morocco couldn't produce more than
60% of the market.

Is this your source?
http://faostat.fao.org/site/567/Desk...geID=567#ancor

Yes and no. I did look there in the end for Dutch and Belgian
production, but the other figures I got indirectly from Wikipedia. On
further digging I find that Poland produces about as much as the
Netherlands.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 2014-01-26 10:01:55 +0000, David Hill said:

On 25/01/2014 23:16, Sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-25 15:14:59 +0000, David Hill said:

On 25/01/2014 13:03, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-25 10:46:34 +0000, David Hill said:

On 24/01/2014 10:39, Sacha wrote:
The island's tomato production has almost ground to a halt and it used
to be its lifeblood. Thank goodness for the finance industry and I
never
thought I'd hear myself say that! Anthony Le Page who employs 15
workers
on his 2ha glasshouses in the Vale is closing down. The stretch of
water
between England and the islands is one of the significant causes.
About
50 years ago, the tomato growing employed more than half the island's
population.


(This got lost first time I posted it, probably because I've changed
from XP pro to windows 7)

Now, come on Sacha.
It's by no means another British industry hitting the buffers, rather
the tomato industry in the UK is on the up and up, with sites like
Thanet Earth and several mega units using combined heat and power
plants, and waste heat to heat the houses; if you can call those multi
hectare structures houses; to produce all year round tomatoes, and
going by some I bought in Tesco last week #; not those stupid little
things; they had good flavour for winter tomatoes.
When you have these mega houses just down the road so to speak, and
not over some very choppy water, and with production 2 or 3 times per
sq meter than it used to be in "The good old days"it's time for
Guernsey to look for much higher value produce.
I remember in my younger day we used to get £1.00 a pound for the
first tomatoes, but that never lasted more than a couple of weeks,
likewise with the first Strawberries, and that was 50+ years ago.
Today no one would pay the modern equivalent price.
David @ the side of Swansea Bay where it is yet again raining.

Oh, all the reasons for the growing industry coming to a natural end are
perfectly logical ones. And the finance industry has taken over in terms
of island prosperity and so forth. I'm having a nostalgic moment. Do you
know which tomatoes you bought from Tesco? I have yet to find any worth
having!


All I can say is that they were vine tomatoes.
Have you noticed that whilst every pack of strawberries from wherever
has the variety on the pack the same is not true of most fruit and veg.
With around 20 varieties of Sprouts being grown commercially they are
not named on the box/pack.
The same for tomatoes and peppers.
David@ a yet again rainy side of Swansea Bay.

I do all my supermarket shopping online and in the case of Tesco have
asked them to show country of origin at least three times. It never
happens clearly enough on the online packs.

You may find browsing this site will be of interest
http://www.britishtomatoes.co.uk/home

I did, thank you, David. I notice that Wight Salads, which has a very
good reputation, has nursery sites all over the place but none in the
CIs, which are closer to home! I wonder why not one of those
growers/suppliers uses the CIs. Perhaps the industry there has just
declined too far.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 26/01/2014 11:27, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:03:17 +0000, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

On 26/01/2014 10:41, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:30:53 +0000, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

On 26/01/2014 09:54, David Hill wrote:
On 26/01/2014 09:31, Jimmy Dawkins wrote:
Morrocco now supplies 75% (ish) of ALL tomoatoes bought in Northern
Europe....

Where did you get that figure?

The FAO stats have Morocco as the worlds 17th largest producer. However
Italy (7th largest) produces nearly 5 times as much, and Spain (9th
largest) 3 times as much. Russia (12th largest), Ukraine (13th largest)
and Portugal (16th largest) also outproduce Morocco, with Greece (18th
largest) coming in just after.

In North Africa Egypt (5th largest) and Tunisia (15th largest) produce
more than Morocco.

It all depends on how much is produced for domestic consumption and how
much for export, but I would have guessed that Spain was the largest
supplier to northern Europe. In the light of these figures I infer that
there isn't a dominant supplier.

Since Morocco only produces 50% more tomatoes that the Netherlands it
would seem that even if Morocco was the only outside supplier and we
ignored the rest of northern European production (Belgium production is
about a quarter of Dutch production) Morocco couldn't produce more than
60% of the market.

Is this your source?
http://faostat.fao.org/site/567/Desk...geID=567#ancor

Yes and no. I did look there in the end for Dutch and Belgian
production, but the other figures I got indirectly from Wikipedia.

I started there, but it didn't show Belgium so I looked at the FAO website

On
further digging I find that Poland produces about as much as the
Netherlands.

I suppose Jimmy Dawkins claim depends on the source of N Europe's imports rather
than production figures.

Questions have been asked
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...DOC+XML+V0//EN

According to those figures Moroccan exports to the whole of the EU are
less than Dutch production.

I found a site that claimed that 90% of Moroccan tomato production is sold to
France.

How much of France is included in northern Europe?
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 26/01/2014 12:25, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 26/01/2014 11:27, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:03:17 +0000, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

On 26/01/2014 10:41, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:30:53 +0000, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

On 26/01/2014 09:54, David Hill wrote:
On 26/01/2014 09:31, Jimmy Dawkins wrote:
Morrocco now supplies 75% (ish) of ALL tomoatoes bought in Northern
Europe....

Where did you get that figure?

The FAO stats have Morocco as the worlds 17th largest producer.
However
Italy (7th largest) produces nearly 5 times as much, and Spain (9th
largest) 3 times as much. Russia (12th largest), Ukraine (13th
largest)
and Portugal (16th largest) also outproduce Morocco, with Greece (18th
largest) coming in just after.

In North Africa Egypt (5th largest) and Tunisia (15th largest) produce
more than Morocco.

It all depends on how much is produced for domestic consumption and
how
much for export, but I would have guessed that Spain was the largest
supplier to northern Europe. In the light of these figures I infer
that
there isn't a dominant supplier.

Since Morocco only produces 50% more tomatoes that the Netherlands it
would seem that even if Morocco was the only outside supplier and we
ignored the rest of northern European production (Belgium
production is
about a quarter of Dutch production) Morocco couldn't produce more
than
60% of the market.

Is this your source?
http://faostat.fao.org/site/567/Desk...geID=567#ancor

Yes and no. I did look there in the end for Dutch and Belgian
production, but the other figures I got indirectly from Wikipedia.

I started there, but it didn't show Belgium so I looked at the FAO
website

On
further digging I find that Poland produces about as much as the
Netherlands.

I suppose Jimmy Dawkins claim depends on the source of N Europe's
imports rather
than production figures.

Questions have been asked
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...DOC+XML+V0//EN


According to those figures Moroccan exports to the whole of the EU are
less than Dutch production.

I found a site that claimed that 90% of Moroccan tomato production is
sold to
France.

How much of France is included in northern Europe?


What must be remembered when quoting all these figures is that in this
part of the world we consider tomatoes to be those grown under glass or
other protection whilst a lot of those grown in the Med ans north Africa
are field grown, these tend to be used for processing, canning, juice,
soup. purée etc. so don't really impact on those grown in northern climes.
David @ the side of Swansea bay where it's no longer raining for a bit.