I have a one year old Ceanothus that produces a blue flower that is
planted in totally the wrong place faceing East rather, than as the book
says, a southerly aspect.. It's where it gets full exposure and is
fully into the wind, and it doesn't like it.
It got frost burnt and wind burnt in the winter, and has reacted by
producing a mass of plain green leaves instead of the variegated leaves
on the rest of the plant.

The RHS site said it hates being moved, so I think it's stuck where it
is, but can I cut off the plain green leaves without doing any further
damage to the bush. There are quite a lot of them including one spur
that is totally green.

I am in North Cornwall if that should make any difference.

Peter

--
-
The e-mail address obviously doesn't exist. If it's essential
that you contact me then try peterATpfjamesDOTcoDOTuk

In article ,
Peter James wrote:
I have a one year old Ceanothus that produces a blue flower that is
planted in totally the wrong place faceing East rather, than as the book
says, a southerly aspect.. It's where it gets full exposure and is
fully into the wind, and it doesn't like it.
It got frost burnt and wind burnt in the winter, and has reacted by
producing a mass of plain green leaves instead of the variegated leaves
on the rest of the plant.

The RHS site said it hates being moved, so I think it's stuck where it
is, but can I cut off the plain green leaves without doing any further
damage to the bush. There are quite a lot of them including one spur
that is totally green.

Yes, but it will not reshoot from old wood.

I am in North Cornwall if that should make any difference.

Yes, it does - it's not an ideal plant for so far west, let alone
in an exposed situation. It will probably never do very well.
Sorry.



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

But I'm reluctantly coming round to agree with NM's comments. Despite
ceanothus being described as a maritime plant (it comes from
California), it's not a plant suitable for exposed coastal gardens in
Cornwall where humidity is always high and salt gales regularly sweep
in and cause devastation. I shan't be planting any more.

I shall have to see how my new one does, but the previous one
(thyrsiflorus, I think) wasn't phased by Cambridge winters,
and they were colder then than they are at present. I have
half the rainfall, no salt and sandy soil.

Incidentally, California has a solely continental climate,
despite the misinformation commonly posted. Even San Francisco
itself has - and its microclimate is due to the interaction of
the ocean with the continental climate. The only places in the
USA with a maritime climate are a thin coastal strip of Alaska,
the Florida peninsula and Hawaii.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 24/05/2014 09:09, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:50:14 +0100, (Peter
James) wrote:

I have a one year old Ceanothus that produces a blue flower that is
planted in totally the wrong place faceing East rather, than as the book
says, a southerly aspect.. It's where it gets full exposure and is
fully into the wind, and it doesn't like it.
It got frost burnt and wind burnt in the winter, and has reacted by
producing a mass of plain green leaves instead of the variegated leaves
on the rest of the plant.

The RHS site said it hates being moved, so I think it's stuck where it
is, but can I cut off the plain green leaves without doing any further
damage to the bush. There are quite a lot of them including one spur
that is totally green.

I am in North Cornwall if that should make any difference.

Peter

I am a bit further west and south from you. I have (actually, I had!)
several varieties of ceanothus, all of which were badly burnt by the
winter's salt gales, some burnt completely leafless, and some were
blown right over as well and all these had to be taken out. I pruned
out the leafless and now dead parts of the survivors, mostly
low-growing C. repens, not in the expectation that they will re-shoot
from the pruned stems, but in the hope that eventually growth from the
surviving part of the plant will overgrow and cover the bare parts.

Not sure about your variegated versus all green problem. Perhaps the
original variegated plant was grafted onto a conventional rootstock
and the all green shoot is coming from below the graft.

But I'm reluctantly coming round to agree with NM's comments. Despite
ceanothus being described as a maritime plant (it comes from
California), it's not a plant suitable for exposed coastal gardens in
Cornwall where humidity is always high and salt gales regularly sweep
in and cause devastation. I shan't be planting any more.

I grew C. "Zanzibar" for many years on Sussex clay. It did very well
despite once being partially blown over in a gale (I got it as upright
as I could and staked it for a couple of years). When I moved, it had
been in the ground over a dozen years. It got a bit scruffy below 1
metre, but never reverted or showed any sign of losing variegation. It
survived some very cold winters (-10°C) without a mark, despite the
variegated form supposedly being less hardy than non-variegated
Ceanothus. In another place in the garden, C.thyrsiflorus repens did
well until it got smothered by other, higher-growing, plants. It too got
very scruffy before it disappeared.

I'm now growing Ceanothus arboreus 'Trewithen Blue' in South Hampshire,
again on clay. But despite supposedly being a plant which is quite happy
in drought conditions, it lives in a very wet area after heavy rain -
almost boggy. It seems to be thriving.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 13:46:17 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

I grew C. "Zanzibar" for many years on Sussex clay. It did very well
despite once being partially blown over in a gale (I got it as upright
as I could and staked it for a couple of years). When I moved, it had
been in the ground over a dozen years. It got a bit scruffy below 1
metre, but never reverted or showed any sign of losing variegation. It
survived some very cold winters (-10°C) without a mark, despite the
variegated form supposedly being less hardy than non-variegated
Ceanothus. In another place in the garden, C.thyrsiflorus repens did
well until it got smothered by other, higher-growing, plants. It too got
very scruffy before it disappeared.

I'm now growing Ceanothus arboreus 'Trewithen Blue' in South Hampshire,
again on clay. But despite supposedly being a plant which is quite happy
in drought conditions, it lives in a very wet area after heavy rain -
almost boggy. It seems to be thriving.

Mine never seem to last more than a few years. I think there's more to
their loss than just salt gales, although they're bad enough, nor is
it cold, as we seldom get frosts below -2C. I suspect fungal attack
has a significant effect due to the high humidity here, as even ones
fairly well protected from the weather seem to progressively lose
their foliage until they become unattractive and flower only sparsely.

I am certain that is true. I have problems with labiate herbs,
especially in wet winters, with their roots rotting. And I have
problems with germinating beans (so I do that indoors). And, in
the front garden, I have lost a lot of trees and shrubs (but not
all). All are definitely fungal in nature, but it is quite likely
that they get infected only when damaged in some other way first.

I suspect that the need for good drainage in many plants isn't
that they WILL die if they don't have it, but that they are more
susceptible to soil-born fungal attack. So they will sometimes
thrive even when they "shouldn't".


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:50:14 +0100, (Peter
James) wrote:

I have a one year old Ceanothus that produces a blue flower that is
planted in totally the wrong place faceing East rather, than as the book
says, a southerly aspect.. It's where it gets full exposure and is
fully into the wind, and it doesn't like it.
It got frost burnt and wind burnt in the winter, and has reacted by
producing a mass of plain green leaves instead of the variegated leaves
on the rest of the plant.

The RHS site said it hates being moved, so I think it's stuck where it
is, but can I cut off the plain green leaves without doing any further
damage to the bush. There are quite a lot of them including one spur
that is totally green.

I am in North Cornwall if that should make any difference.

Peter

...

But I'm reluctantly coming round to agree with NM's comments. Despite
ceanothus being described as a maritime plant (it comes from
California), it's not a plant suitable for exposed coastal gardens in
Cornwall where humidity is always high and salt gales regularly sweep
in and cause devastation. I shan't be planting any more.

I've has several die young here (including a prostrate one which got
blown out of the ground) except for one, that defies all the above. I've
long since lost the name. It's in its 12th year from planting and hugely
robust, 9ft tall and wide, and covered in flower buds about to open.
It's freestanding, facing north and east over the bay, with the feeble
protection of a buddliea globosa at its back. The buddliea often gets
branches blown off by wind. Rainfall is around 90" a year. We're on a
clifftop and regularly subject to severe SW gales with salt; and when we
get the occasional cold NE wind it has absolutely no protection from
that. Yet it has never "burned".

Janet (Arran).

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 May 2014 17:49:02 +0100, Janet wrote:



I've has several die young here (including a prostrate one which got
blown out of the ground) except for one, that defies all the above. I've
long since lost the name. It's in its 12th year from planting and hugely
robust, 9ft tall and wide, and covered in flower buds about to open.
It's freestanding, facing north and east over the bay, with the feeble
protection of a buddliea globosa at its back. The buddliea often gets
branches blown off by wind. Rainfall is around 90" a year. We're on a
clifftop and regularly subject to severe SW gales with salt; and when we
get the occasional cold NE wind it has absolutely no protection from
that. Yet it has never "burned".

Janet (Arran).


Oh envy! Envy! :-0

I'll root some more cuttings if you'd like some. I had loads of its
children in pots last year but they sold out when we opened the garden.

Janet

In article ,
Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:50:14 +0100, (Peter
James) wrote:

I have a one year old Ceanothus that produces a blue flower that is
planted in totally the wrong place faceing East rather, than as the book
says, a southerly aspect.. It's where it gets full exposure and is
fully into the wind, and it doesn't like it.
It got frost burnt and wind burnt in the winter, and has reacted by
producing a mass of plain green leaves instead of the variegated leaves
on the rest of the plant.

But I'm reluctantly coming round to agree with NM's comments. Despite
ceanothus being described as a maritime plant (it comes from
California), it's not a plant suitable for exposed coastal gardens in
Cornwall where humidity is always high and salt gales regularly sweep
in and cause devastation. I shan't be planting any more.

I've has several die young here (including a prostrate one which got
blown out of the ground) except for one, that defies all the above. I've
long since lost the name. It's in its 12th year from planting and hugely
robust, 9ft tall and wide, and covered in flower buds about to open.
It's freestanding, facing north and east over the bay, with the feeble
protection of a buddliea globosa at its back. The buddliea often gets
branches blown off by wind. Rainfall is around 90" a year. We're on a
clifftop and regularly subject to severe SW gales with salt; and when we
get the occasional cold NE wind it has absolutely no protection from
that. Yet it has never "burned".

Now, if we could all remember which ones lived and died, we might
be able to identify which are rubust against such things, and which
aren't! I suspect that the standard rules are over-simplistic.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 24/05/2014 07:50, Peter James wrote:
I have a one year old Ceanothus that produces a blue flower that is
planted in totally the wrong place faceing East rather, than as the book
says, a southerly aspect.. It's where it gets full exposure and is
fully into the wind, and it doesn't like it.
It got frost burnt and wind burnt in the winter, and has reacted by
producing a mass of plain green leaves instead of the variegated leaves
on the rest of the plant.

The RHS site said it hates being moved, so I think it's stuck where it
is, but can I cut off the plain green leaves without doing any further
damage to the bush. There are quite a lot of them including one spur
that is totally green.

I am in North Cornwall if that should make any difference.

Peter




Normally, I would always advise cutting out the plain green shoots at
source in order to maintain the less vigorous variegated growth since,
presumably, that is why it was bought. However, in this case, I would
be inclined to let the stronger green growth prevail. Although I like
many variegated plants, I've never been able to admire variegated
Ceanothus (sorry) but, rather more importantly than my personal opinion,
I think the green form may stand up to your weather conditions better. I
also suspect that your plant agrees with me, since it produced green
leaves to help it cope!;~). I also think it's worth giving it a high
potash feed to help harden off the foliage. Certainly don't give it any
nitrogenous feed which will encourage soft growth.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

In article ,
says...

Janet I'd love a cutting when you next have some. Thank you very much
for the offer. You say the parent is 9ft tall, which suggests C.
arboreus, possibly Trewithen Blue as that's a popular one. Does that
ring a bell? Are the flowers pale blue, or dark? Lastly, do you still
have my postal address? If not, I'll e-mail it to you. I have an old
e-mail address for you, if it's still current. I'll test it!

Nothing arrived so I've sent an e to the last email address I had for
you. Lost your postal address .

No, I don't think it is Trewithen Blue. RHS says

" 'Trewithen Blue' is a large vigorous evergreen spreading shrub to
6m in height, with broadly oval or rounded leaves to 8cm in length, and
slightly fragrant deep blue flowers in panicles to 12cm in length"

The leaves on mine are 4cm long and flowers shorter too. I've tried
and failed to identify it before, either from google images of
ceanothuses, or from plants in nurseries, and never found one to match.

It should be in flower within a few days and when it does, I'll take
some pics and post a link here, to see if anyone here can identify it.

In my previous garden, for 18 years I kept an A4 5yr desk diary record
of everything I planted. When we came here I bought a new one (still
virgin) but somehow never got round to keeping records.. partly because
so many of the plants here were swaps, cuttings or from amateur plant
sales, with no name or dodgy ID.

Janet