#1   Report Post  
Old 30-11-2017, 01:39 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Default Tree of 40 fruit

Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on details they can learn for themselves.

Help!


NT

  #4   Report Post  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:34 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jan 2017
Posts: 35
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:15:10 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:39:27 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted
tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about
gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The audience will
include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on
details they can learn for themselves.

Help!


NT


I have my doubts about 40 different fruit on a single tree; maybe half a
dozen, such as six stone fruits (peach, nectarine, damson, plum,
apricot,) or a mix of apples and pears perhaps, or several citrus fruits
(orange, lemon, grapefruit, lime, mandarin etc), but

You may get some useful info from one of the web sites listed here
https://tinyurl.com/yb6lmme7

Ah, but I stand corrected! I've just found this lot:
https://tinyurl.com/ycsq424r which may give you the info you want.


Fascinating.

I had got as far as concluding that you would have to start with an
established host tree for it to be strong enough to support many different
grafts without each graft fighting all the others.

From that point, as far as I can see you could have a family tree with any
number of varieties if you started with, say, a 10 year old tree.

I must say that it is an attractive idea. Having a main crop apple that
you like the most, then adding a branch here and there of different
varieties, possibly to increase fertilisation as well as variety.

Noted that the original aim was an art project to create multi-colour
blossom displays.

I wonder how old a tree has to be before it stops accepting grafts.

There is many an ancient apple tree around which could perhaps have a new
lease of life.

Cheers


Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #5   Report Post  
Old 01-12-2017, 11:47 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote:
Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a
grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing
about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The


40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the
same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many
prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you
there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just
reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical.

audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't
need to touch on details they can learn for themselves.

Help!


Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to
match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there
is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support.

They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually
the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont
Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant.

That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well.


There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible


NT


  #6   Report Post  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:46 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2014
Posts: 5
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On 01/12/17 22:47, wrote:
On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote:
Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a
grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing
about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The


40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the
same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many
prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you
there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just
reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical.

audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't
need to touch on details they can learn for themselves.

Help!


Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to
match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there
is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support.

They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually
the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont
Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant.

That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well.


There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible


NT


There's some info here plus a link to a TED talk

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/03/337164041/the-gift-of-graft-new-york-artists-tree-to-grow-40-kinds-of-fruit
  #7   Report Post  
Old 04-12-2017, 11:49 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On Monday, 4 December 2017 09:46:07 UTC, RedAcer wrote:
On 01/12/17 22:47, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote:
Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a
grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing
about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The

40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the
same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many
prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you
there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just
reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical.

audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't
need to touch on details they can learn for themselves.

Help!

Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to
match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there
is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support.

They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually
the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont
Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant.

That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well.


There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible


NT


There's some info here plus a link to a TED talk

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/03/337164041/the-gift-of-graft-new-york-artists-tree-to-grow-40-kinds-of-fruit


Yes I've seen those and more. They just don't contain enough info to enable someone to do likewise.


NT
  #8   Report Post  
Old 05-12-2017, 09:30 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 67
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On 01/12/2017 22:47, wrote:
On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote:
Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a
grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing
about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The


40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the
same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many
prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you
there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just
reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical.

audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't
need to touch on details they can learn for themselves.

Help!


Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to
match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there
is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support.

They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually
the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont
Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant.

That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well.


There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible


There are, but they are done by artists and will surely be very short
lived and fragile. Family trees of 4 or 5 fruit varieties are about the
realistic limit for grafting with apples and pears.

You have to pick the order carefully so that each one is approximately
suited to the vigor of the previous stock if they are grafted as a chain
or take one vigourous established rootstock tree and bud graft a whole
load of things onto it and pray. Eventually you may be rewarded.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/...g-fruit-trees/

The grafting step is no different to any other sort of grafting. The
choice of varieties that will cohabit peacefully is much more tricky. I
don't expect the artist who did this really cares about that so long as
it looks absolutely fantastic for one season.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #9   Report Post  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:25 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On Tuesday, 5 December 2017 08:30:55 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/12/2017 22:47, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote:
Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a
grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing
about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The

40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the
same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many
prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you
there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just
reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical.

audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't
need to touch on details they can learn for themselves.

Help!

Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to
match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there
is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support.

They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually
the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont
Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant..

That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well.


There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible


There are, but they are done by artists and will surely be very short
lived and fragile. Family trees of 4 or 5 fruit varieties are about the
realistic limit for grafting with apples and pears.

You have to pick the order carefully so that each one is approximately
suited to the vigor of the previous stock if they are grafted as a chain
or take one vigourous established rootstock tree and bud graft a whole
load of things onto it and pray. Eventually you may be rewarded.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/...g-fruit-trees/

The grafting step is no different to any other sort of grafting. The
choice of varieties that will cohabit peacefully is much more tricky. I
don't expect the artist who did this really cares about that so long as
it looks absolutely fantastic for one season.


That link's informative but way too complex. If I can't give a set of instructions in at the outside 10 minutes, preferably 5, that enable folk to graft with at least some success, then it won't fly. I don't have the grafting skill to condense those pages into a quick basic guide.


NT
  #12   Report Post  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:59 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 67
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On 05/12/2017 23:25, wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 December 2017 08:30:55 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/12/2017 22:47, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote:
Hi everyone.


I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to
grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that
knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the
details myself! The

40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties
of the same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild
prunus with as many prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long
supported stems might get you there. Does it have to be 40? You
will spend most of the time just reading out all the names. 3
or 4 is a lot more practical.

audience will include interested children as well as adults.
I don't need to touch on details they can learn for
themselves.

Help!

Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you
have to match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next
tier down and there is a limit to how much top growth the
rootstock can support.

They also need careful watching or one variety will run away -
usually the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have
Sunset on Egremont Russet on M9 and it works very well even
though the russet is dominant.

That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well.

There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it
as simply as possible


There are, but they are done by artists and will surely be very
short lived and fragile. Family trees of 4 or 5 fruit varieties are
about the realistic limit for grafting with apples and pears.

You have to pick the order carefully so that each one is
approximately suited to the vigor of the previous stock if they are
grafted as a chain or take one vigourous established rootstock tree
and bud graft a whole load of things onto it and pray. Eventually
you may be rewarded.


http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/...g-fruit-trees/



The grafting step is no different to any other sort of grafting. The
choice of varieties that will cohabit peacefully is much more
tricky. I don't expect the artist who did this really cares about
that so long as it looks absolutely fantastic for one season.


That link's informative but way too complex. If I can't give a set of
instructions in at the outside 10 minutes, preferably 5, that enable
folk to graft with at least some success, then it won't fly. I don't
have the grafting skill to condense those pages into a quick basic
guide.


Even for someone with a steady hand and a very sharp knife grafting is a
bit pot luck since the joint union has to match phloem and xylem across
the graft well enough that the scion survives long enough for the wound
to heal. The cleft graft or its modified form are about the easiest to
do. The whip graft is about the hardest to get right (and will need many
practice attempts to even get close to the right matching shapes).

After using the sharpest possible knife to minimise cellular damage
immobilising it so that the graft takes rather than flaps around in the
breeze and dries out is probably the next most important thing.

Grafting isn't easy. I have had plenty fail including some where as a
result I lost the cultivar I was trying to preserve. Putting a piece of
pear/apple onto a tree that is short of a pollenator may be worth a try.
We used to swap a piece of pear tree with someone at work.

I'd hazard a guess that early success rates will be less than 10% (and
that's assuming you have the necessary dexterity to do it at all).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

  #13   Report Post  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:01 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Default Tree of 40 fruit

On Wednesday, 6 December 2017 09:02:22 UTC, John Williamson wrote:
On 05/12/2017 23:25, tabbypurr wrote:

That link's informative but way too complex. If I can't give a set of instructions in at the outside 10 minutes, preferably 5, that enable folk to graft with at least some success, then it won't fly. I don't have the grafting skill to condense those pages into a quick basic guide.

Not every problem has a simple answer.

Telling people how to graft in ten minutes is possible, especially if
you do a "show and tell". Explaining the complex rules for successfully
getting 40 different fruits on one tree will take a bit longer, as it's
a much more complex subject.


Show & tell won't be possible. I guess I have to give up on the idea. I daresay if I knew more about it I could come up with something to get people started, but I don't.

Thank you everyone.


NT


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Plant 'fruit' tree wife's birthday (where to get Strawberry Tree?) Jim Daschowsky Edible Gardening 15 21-04-2012 11:00 PM
grapes the wine of fruit, then buffaloeberry the champagne or spiceof fruit [email protected] Plant Science 0 22-07-2008 08:46 AM
ripe fruit versus unripe fruit ; horse, Llama, donkey a_plutonium Plant Science 11 13-07-2007 09:12 AM
Why is that fruit known as "Queen of Fruit"? Mangosteen Australia 0 20-04-2005 09:54 AM
Fruit & Vegetable Rinse washes fruit & vegetable thoroughly to prevent Isaac Kwong sci.agriculture 0 02-06-2003 07:44 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017