I grow a lot of brassicas and every year, in spite of resolutions to
patrol them regularly and squish the eggs and caterpillars, I never
manage to quite keep up with them - just too much to do mid-week and
weekend forays aren't enough. I always feel I'm doing fine, and then
from September onwards, gradually lose the battle.

I use mesh with partial success but at the moment I haven't got enough
to cover all I grow.

I'm wondering whether to invest instead in the biological control which
seems to be readily available. It is dissolved and watered on, I believe
and can be stored for some time, which seems an advantage.

Could anyone who has tried it report on its success, ease of use and how
often it needs to be applied to keep on top of things?

Thanks for any thoughts

Janet G

"Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson" wrote in
message ...
I grow a lot of brassicas and every year, in spite of resolutions snip

I'm wondering whether to invest instead in the biological control which
seems to be readily available. It is dissolved and watered on, I believe
and can be stored for some time, which seems an advantage.

Could anyone who has tried it report on its success, ease of use and how
often it needs to be applied to keep on top of things?

I've used it regularly with great success but you do need to apply fairly
often, at least weekly seemed to be needed.
--
Chris Thomas
West Cork
Ireland

Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson wrote:

Could anyone who has tried it report on its success, ease of use and how
often it needs to be applied to keep on top of things?

I get quite good control with BT wettable powder... for a typical garden
you only need to mix a quart (erm... liter...) at a time in one of those
small pressure sprayers we all have, making sure you get the spray wand
under the leaves as well as the top.
Though not a vegetarian, Dear Wife didn't like little green worms in her
broccoli.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at www.albany.net/~gwoods
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1200' elevation. NY WO G

I wouldn't dream of applying any chemicals to potential food. You may
as well spoon it in and see what happens!
The original poster got it right with mesh. If mesh netting is used it
prevents the Large White and Small White butterflies form laying their
eggs. The former produce the speckled yellow, green and black
caterpillars, the latter the green ones. And if there isn't enough
mesh, go out and get some more.

My biological control of caterpillars has wings.....the Robins and the Tits
do a very good job here.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

The message
from "David Hill" contains these
words:

My biological control of caterpillars has wings.....the Robins and the Tits
do a very good job here.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Perhaps you have more mixed planting. My vegetable area is somewhat away
from other parts of the garden. I have planted native hedging etc to
encourage the birds more, but until it grows more and until I experiment
more with companion planting, the birds I guess will continue to flock
to other parts of the garden instead.
Janet G

"Helen" wrote in message
om...
I wouldn't dream of applying any chemicals to potential food. You may
as well spoon it in and see what happens!

The biological control I use is not a "chemical" but a natural bacillus
(thuringiensis?) that is fatal to the caterpillars of cabbage butterflies
and is approved by various organic bodies for use as such.
--
Chris Thomas
West Cork
Ireland

The message
from "Cerumen" contains these words:


"Helen" wrote in message
om...
I wouldn't dream of applying any chemicals to potential food. You may
as well spoon it in and see what happens!

The biological control I use is not a "chemical" but a natural bacillus
(thuringiensis?) that is fatal to the caterpillars of cabbage butterflies
and is approved by various organic bodies for use as such.
--
Chris Thomas
West Cork
Ireland


This is the control I meant so thanks for your and Gary's input.

It seems from what Gary says that you have to spray quite carefully,
directing the spray at the caterpillars or potential caterpillars rather
than just vaguely at the plant. I'm thinking this will be just about as
time-consuming as squishing, with perhaps almost as many missed!

Janet G

Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson wrote:

It seems from what Gary says that you have to spray quite carefully,
directing the spray at the caterpillars or potential caterpillars rather
than just vaguely at the plant.

Naah.... you just make sure you wet both top and bottom of all the leaves
with the spray want... takes me only a few seconds per plant.
And a previous comment was right; it's bacillus thurigensis, a disease of
certain caterpillers. Not good if it's produced in mass quantities by
bioengineered corn, because it kills monarch butterfly larvae. But
harmless to humans. Unless, of course, your great-grandfather was a
cabbage worm.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at www.albany.net/~gwoods
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1200' elevation. NY WO G

In article , Helen
writes
I wouldn't dream of applying any chemicals to potential food. You may
as well spoon it in and see what happens!
The original poster got it right with mesh. If mesh netting is used it
prevents the Large White and Small White butterflies form laying their
eggs. The former produce the speckled yellow, green and black
caterpillars, the latter the green ones. And if there isn't enough
mesh, go out and get some more.

I'll have a go with mesh. What kind of mesh is best?
I've got some thin green plastic stuff with about half-inch holes,
that I use to keep birds off seedlings. Is that OK?
--
Chris

On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:50:15 +0100, Chris ] wrote:

~In article , Helen
writes
~I wouldn't dream of applying any chemicals to potential food. You may
~as well spoon it in and see what happens!
~The original poster got it right with mesh. If mesh netting is used it
~prevents the Large White and Small White butterflies form laying their
~eggs. The former produce the speckled yellow, green and black
~caterpillars, the latter the green ones. And if there isn't enough
~mesh, go out and get some more.
~
~I'll have a go with mesh. What kind of mesh is best?
~I've got some thin green plastic stuff with about half-inch holes,
~that I use to keep birds off seedlings. Is that OK?

That's what I use. I've gone over to doing my planting in rectangular
1.5ydx3.5yd plots rather than rows, so it's easier to net stuff that needs
it.

I put a wooden post (1.5"x1"x2' with 6" below ground) at each corner of the
plot, a cane with cane top in the centre (slightly higher) and an old plant
pot on top of each post. The boxes of green plastic 1cm netting you can get
will do two plots this size if you get the biggest box. Then use 2mm
diameter galvanised wire to peg it down every foot or so rather like a bed
with hospital corners. ( I tend to use 15" lengths of wire bent into an
elongated U, which means they're easy to grab and pull out to do hoeing
etc.)

If you stretch tightly over the posts you don't need to put canes between
post tops to keep the net clear of the brassicas. Make sure there are no
floppy unpegged gaps or the pigeons will get in!

The other nice thing is that if you peg down firmly enough then larger
slugs and snails can't get in either. The only trouble I get is flea beetle
and I have learned to grab the derris quickly...


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

The message ]
from Chris ] contains these words:

In article , Helen
writes
I wouldn't dream of applying any chemicals to potential food. You may
as well spoon it in and see what happens!
The original poster got it right with mesh. If mesh netting is used it
prevents the Large White and Small White butterflies form laying their
eggs. The former produce the speckled yellow, green and black
caterpillars, the latter the green ones. And if there isn't enough
mesh, go out and get some more.

I'll have a go with mesh. What kind of mesh is best?
I've got some thin green plastic stuff with about half-inch holes,
that I use to keep birds off seedlings. Is that OK?
--
Chris


No, you need the white stuff sold under the name of Enviromesh. It has
tiny holes and acts as a complete barrier, but lets rain through.

As a matter of interest, reverting to the original posting, the
biological control is apparently not going to be available this year
except in commercial quantities. I think it was something to do with
no-one applying for a licence in time. It should be available again next
year.

Janet G