"Dave" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:39:22 +0000, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , Dave
writes
is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases
from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would
kill the flowers. Thanks in advance Dave

Sugar? ISTR that's why parsnips get sweeter after a frost.

But you will also have to make sure that whatever you're putting in the
flower vase isn't going to be affected by the frost - ie if the water in
the vase freezes, then so will the water in the flowers themselves.
So really its not worth buying cut flowers in the winter then, trouble
is they wont allow me to use artificial flowers. Problem is I always
promised my late wife that I would always have flowers at her grave,
so I suppose its just a case of buying them more often in the winter.
Problem with the water freezing though is that I cant remove the dead
flowers,as the water is frozen, doesnt affect the vases though as they
are metal.

Heather, winter pansies, polyanthus, and many more, dont put them in a vase,
but in a pot.

Go look in your local garden centre and see what they sell for winter
hanging baskets.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes
The message
from Kay Easton contains these words:
In article , Dave
writes

is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases
from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would
kill the flowers. Thanks in advance Dave

Sugar? ISTR that's why parsnips get sweeter after a frost.

I have a sort-of feeling that sugar actually raises the freezing-point
of the solution. Or ice-cream would be a bit of a no-no.

It's still soft at below freezing. I know that's partly (maybe wholly)
the air you beat in. If you make ice cream the old fashioned way, you
add salt to the ice that you use to cool it in order to lower the
temperature - in other words, you make it at less than 0 deg C.

Sugar has a higher boiling point than water, but I don't know whether
that has anything to do with anything.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Dave
writes


So really its not worth buying cut flowers in the winter then, trouble
is they wont allow me to use artificial flowers.

Problem is I always
promised my late wife that I would always have flowers at her grave,
so I suppose its just a case of buying them more often in the winter.

Dried flowers would be OK, and are available in a good range of colours.
and they wouldn't need water. The restriction about artificial flowers
is that they aren't biodegradable, and if the person doesn't remove
them, little bits of plastic and so on hang around for ever. You don't
get this problem with dried flowers.

Alternatively try winter foliage - holly, variegated leaves, things with
berries. They tend to stand up to the cold a bit better.

Problem with the water freezing though is that I cant remove the dead
flowers,as the water is frozen, doesnt affect the vases though as they
are metal.

Make sure all your stems reach down to the bottom of the vase and use
only a tiny bit of water - the foliage or whatever won't be using much
water if the temperatures are low. Then, when you come to change the
vases, bring a flask of hot water with you to melt the small bit of
water in the vase.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Tumbleweed12/12/03 3:20
o.uk
snip

Heather, winter pansies, polyanthus, and many more, dont put them in a vase,
but in a pot.

Go look in your local garden centre and see what they sell for winter
hanging baskets.

Sarcoccca would be lovely, too. The lovely scent is another great
attraction.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

"Sacha" wrote in message in reply to Dave
is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases
from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would
kill the flowers.

Would you be allowed to plant something that would take the winter
weather?
--


That's what I've done on a grave at Church Norton where you are only allowed
Headstones, they cut the grass in the summer so there is no point in
planting anything that grows then so I planted some very early flowering
dwarf Daffs, some Chionadoxa and some hardy Cyclamen so they would all be
finished growing, and be dying back, by the time they start their mowing.
Daffs are doing well, too early to say for the cyclamen and also for the
second lot of Chionadoxa, the first lot got dug up and disappeared!

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars
347 data units completed.

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes

The message

from Kay Easton contains these words:

In article , Dave
writes

is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases

from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would

kill the flowers. Thanks in advance Dave

Sugar? ISTR that's why parsnips get sweeter after a frost.

I have a sort-of feeling that sugar actually raises the freezing-point
of the solution. Or ice-cream would be a bit of a no-no.


It's still soft at below freezing. I know that's partly (maybe wholly)
the air you beat in. If you make ice cream the old fashioned way, you
add salt to the ice that you use to cool it in order to lower the
temperature - in other words, you make it at less than 0 deg C.

Sugar has a higher boiling point than water, but I don't know whether
that has anything to do with anything.


Anything dissolved in water will lower the freezing point and raise the
boiling point. The chemical quantities of dissolved molecules (or
molality) is the key quantity, as the solute molecules affect the
freezing and boiling by hindering the regular polar interactions between
the water molecules! The magnitude of the change in temperature is
directly proportional to the concentrations of dissolved solute.

Look up molal boiling point elevation, and molal freezing point
depression on Google!

So there you have, another trivial fact for the day...

Thes.

Bob Hobden12/12/03 4:33


"Sacha" wrote in message in reply to Dave
is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases
from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would
kill the flowers.

Would you be allowed to plant something that would take the winter
weather?
--


That's what I've done on a grave at Church Norton where you are only allowed
Headstones, they cut the grass in the summer so there is no point in
planting anything that grows then so I planted some very early flowering
dwarf Daffs, some Chionadoxa and some hardy Cyclamen so they would all be
finished growing, and be dying back, by the time they start their mowing.
Daffs are doing well, too early to say for the cyclamen and also for the
second lot of Chionadoxa, the first lot got dug up and disappeared!

One of the prettiest churchyards I've ever seen is at Farnham - St Mary's
IIRC. Two friends of mine, who died much too young, are buried there.
From what I remember, there are paths mown for people to walk on and the
graves are kept 'clean' but wildflowers are allowed to grow in between all
and it is simply lovely. I'm so tempted to suggest it here but I think the
man who mows the churchyard so beautifully would be horrified!
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

"......... is there any thing I can use to stop the water in the flower
vases from freezing at a grave. All the solutions I've thoiught of would
kill the flowers.........."

I presume the reason for this question is the frost breaking your vases.
This is one reason so many use the marble grave vases.
You could try inserting a few strips of polystyrene vertically, not easy to
keep it in place, but as the water freezes the polystyrene will give and
stop the vase from breaking

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

"........... Problem is I always promised my late wife that I would always
have flowers at her grave, ........"

I would have a vase of fresh flowers in the house next to a picture of her
when the weather makes it impossible to have flowers on the grave..........I
am sure she would understand


--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

David Hill12/12/03 7:33

"........... Problem is I always promised my late wife that I would always
have flowers at her grave, ........"

I would have a vase of fresh flowers in the house next to a picture of her
when the weather makes it impossible to have flowers on the grave..........I
am sure she would understand

Well, I'm not the OP but I think that's a brilliant idea, David.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:51:53 GMT, Dave
wrote:

So really its not worth buying cut flowers in the winter then, trouble
is they wont allow me to use artificial flowers. Problem is I always
promised my late wife that I would always have flowers at her grave,
so I suppose its just a case of buying them more often in the winter.
Problem with the water freezing though is that I cant remove the dead
flowers,as the water is frozen, doesnt affect the vases though as they
are metal.

What about pot plants? Some shrub-like thing with berries? Or even a
plant with brightly colored leaves? From across the pond, I just
picked up a sprig with berries from my nieghbor's holly tree. Here at
least this would be an excellent time for picking up a mini-evergreen
of some sort.

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message
from Kay Easton contains these words:
In article , Dave
writes

is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases
from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would
kill the flowers. Thanks in advance Dave

Sugar? ISTR that's why parsnips get sweeter after a frost.

I have a sort-of feeling that sugar actually raises the freezing-point
of the solution. Or ice-cream would be a bit of a no-no.

I think you are right.

Franz

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

"Dave" wrote in message
...
is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases
from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would
kill the flowers. Thanks in advance Dave

I have a feeling that any fluid whatsoever which was concentrated enough
to
lower the freezing point sufficiently would set osmosis in motion in
such a
direction that the flowers would essentially be sucked dry of internal
moisture.

There's a thought then - dessicated by osmosis and freeze-dried flowers.

Not quite. When the flowers actually freeze, the osmotic motion of the
water will cease.

Franz

"Dave" wrote in message
...
is there any thing i can use to stop the water in the flower vases
from freezing at a grave. All the solutions Ive thoiught of would
kill the flowers. Thanks in advance Dave

How about a nice Xmas wreath ? They can be quite colourful and last for
ages.......
Jenny

The message
from Kay Easton contains these words:

I have a sort-of feeling that sugar actually raises the freezing-point
of the solution. Or ice-cream would be a bit of a no-no.

It's still soft at below freezing. I know that's partly (maybe wholly)
the air you beat in. If you make ice cream the old fashioned way, you
add salt to the ice that you use to cool it in order to lower the
temperature - in other words, you make it at less than 0 deg C.

That's due to the other solids, particularly the fats and the
stabiliser(s) which are often made from seaweed extracts now rather than
gelatine. The air in block or Carpigiani-type dispensed ices will help,
though the old-fashioned 'vertical mix' soft-scoop ices have very little
air in them.

The fat is usually HPKO (Hardened Palm Kernel Oil) and in its solid
state is hard, like paraffin wax or harder.

Sugar has a higher boiling point than water, but I don't know whether
that has anything to do with anything.

Not really, not in a churchyard anyway.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)