"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . ..
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
[...]
I never understand when this kind of topic comes up why people think
the law is "an ass" for providing that we should avoid putting
dangerous things in proximity to the public. We could all think of
plenty of ways in which a spiky fence might injure the person or
property of a perfectly innocent passer-by; and it's not much harder
to think of perfectly innocent reasons why one of us might need to
scramble over somebody else's boundary without permission.

Mike.

Go on then.

Others in the gang have mentioned a few genuine possibilities already;
but here goes:

My mother trips on a loose paving slab, grabs the nearest thing for
support, and a rusty iron spike goes through her hand.

You're walking down the road in the teeth of a rainstorm, and your
expensive umbrella or trench-coat (I know you'd have nothing but the
best) catches on a spike and gets ripped.

I'm steering an uncertain course back from the boozer one night and
some part of my marinaded anatomy connects with the projections;
fortunately, I don't bleed to death, but it's touch and go when I get
septicaemia.

I'm away on holiday, so the vicar can't ask me if it's ok to pop into
my garden to retrieve his hat, which has just been blown in there by
the wind.

Etc, pretty well ad infinitum: these things do happen.

Mike.

On 1 Jan 2004 04:13:06 -0800, (Mike Lyle)
wrote:

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . ..
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
[...]
I never understand when this kind of topic comes up why people think
the law is "an ass" for providing that we should avoid putting
dangerous things in proximity to the public. We could all think of
plenty of ways in which a spiky fence might injure the person or
property of a perfectly innocent passer-by; and it's not much harder
to think of perfectly innocent reasons why one of us might need to
scramble over somebody else's boundary without permission.

Mike.

Go on then.

Others in the gang have mentioned a few genuine possibilities already;
but here goes:

My mother trips on a loose paving slab, grabs the nearest thing for
support, and a rusty iron spike goes through her hand.

Local authority.


You're walking down the road in the teeth of a rainstorm, and your
expensive umbrella or trench-coat (I know you'd have nothing but the
best) catches on a spike and gets ripped.

Act of God


I'm steering an uncertain course back from the boozer one night and
some part of my marinaded anatomy connects with the projections;
fortunately, I don't bleed to death, but it's touch and go when I get
septicaemia.

Self inflicted wound


I'm away on holiday, so the vicar can't ask me if it's ok to pop into
my garden to retrieve his hat, which has just been blown in there by
the wind.

Definitely an act of God.
--
Martin

In article ,
Steve Harris wrote:
In article ,
(Jaques d'Alltrades) wrote:

it is the duty of a citizen to try to apprehend someone in commission
of a serious crime *BY ANY MEANS AT HIS DISPOSAL*.

There is no such general legal duty. There very few situations where the
citizen is legally obliged to take an active part in crime fighting.
They are unlikely to occur in a garden.

And, in all cases, you are required to use only reasonable force,
according to the circumstances. If those burglars had gone tooled
up, Martin would never have been charged.

What the hanging, flogging and burglar-shooting brigade don't realise
is that the doctrine of reasonable force is primarily to protect the
innocent. If burglars know that they are likely to be shot at whim,
some will not do it and others will carry a gun and shoot first.
Those are, after all, the only rational behaviours.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from (Steve Harris) contains these words:
In article ,
(Jaques d'Alltrades) wrote:

it is the duty of a citizen to try to apprehend someone in commission
of a serious crime *BY ANY MEANS AT HIS DISPOSAL*.

There is no such general legal duty. There very few situations where the
citizen is legally obliged to take an active part in crime fighting.
They are unlikely to occur in a garden.

Most of my books are still in store, but I can assure you that the
barrister who wrote the one I'm quoting from (albeit from memory) is not
one to make an unsubstantiated statement.

And the qualifying word is 'try' (though I think on reflection that the
word he used was 'attempt').

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On 1 Jan 2004 04:13:06 -0800, (Mike Lyle) wrote:

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . ..
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
[...]
I never understand when this kind of topic comes up why people think
the law is "an ass" for providing that we should avoid putting
dangerous things in proximity to the public. We could all think of
plenty of ways in which a spiky fence might injure the person or
property of a perfectly innocent passer-by; and it's not much harder
to think of perfectly innocent reasons why one of us might need to
scramble over somebody else's boundary without permission.

Mike.

Go on then.

Others in the gang have mentioned a few genuine possibilities already;
but here goes:

My mother trips on a loose paving slab, grabs the nearest thing for
support, and a rusty iron spike goes through her hand.

Fairy nuff if it's a 3 foot fence.

You're walking down the road in the teeth of a rainstorm, and your
expensive umbrella or trench-coat (I know you'd have nothing but the
best) catches on a spike and gets ripped.

Tough luck. It's no more my fault for having pointy railings than if your flash
brolly gets turned inside out by the wind just as you're passing my house.

I'm steering an uncertain course back from the boozer one night and
some part of my marinaded anatomy connects with the projections;
fortunately, I don't bleed to death, but it's touch and go when I get
septicaemia.

But the rainings outside my house are 6 feet tall and you impaled *both* hands.
Hmmm...

I'm away on holiday, so the vicar can't ask me if it's ok to pop into
my garden to retrieve his hat, which has just been blown in there by
the wind.

The vic is sufficiently well known in our road to locate the keyholder and gain
access legitimately. IRL (in real life) one of the houses in our road is empty most
of the time, when the kids lose a football in that back garden even the smallest kid
knows they'll have to wait till the owner calls round **because it's dangerous to
climb the fence**. The small kid I have in mind is just five years old.

Etc, pretty well ad infinitum: these things do happen.

Yes they do, but what do we lose if we sue every time?

Mike.


Liz

On 1 Jan 2004 04:13:06 -0800, (Mike Lyle) wrote:

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . ..
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
[...]
I never understand when this kind of topic comes up why people think
the law is "an ass" for providing that we should avoid putting
dangerous things in proximity to the public. We could all think of
plenty of ways in which a spiky fence might injure the person or
property of a perfectly innocent passer-by; and it's not much harder
to think of perfectly innocent reasons why one of us might need to
scramble over somebody else's boundary without permission.

Mike.

Go on then.

Others in the gang have mentioned a few genuine possibilities already;
but here goes:

My mother trips on a loose paving slab, grabs the nearest thing for
support, and a rusty iron spike goes through her hand.

Fairy nuff if it's a 3 foot fence.

You're walking down the road in the teeth of a rainstorm, and your
expensive umbrella or trench-coat (I know you'd have nothing but the
best) catches on a spike and gets ripped.

Tough luck. It's no more my fault for having pointy railings than if your flash
brolly gets turned inside out by the wind just as you're passing my house.

I'm steering an uncertain course back from the boozer one night and
some part of my marinaded anatomy connects with the projections;
fortunately, I don't bleed to death, but it's touch and go when I get
septicaemia.

But the rainings outside my house are 6 feet tall and you impaled *both* hands.
Hmmm...

I'm away on holiday, so the vicar can't ask me if it's ok to pop into
my garden to retrieve his hat, which has just been blown in there by
the wind.

The vic is sufficiently well known in our road to locate the keyholder and gain
access legitimately. IRL (in real life) one of the houses in our road is empty most
of the time, when the kids lose a football in that back garden even the smallest kid
knows they'll have to wait till the owner calls round **because it's dangerous to
climb the fence**. The small kid I have in mind is just five years old.

Etc, pretty well ad infinitum: these things do happen.

Yes they do, but what do we lose if we sue every time?

Mike.


Liz

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:181709

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:34 +0000 (GMT), (Steve Harris) wrote:

In article ,
(Jaques d'Alltrades) wrote:

it is the duty of a citizen to try to apprehend someone in commission
of a serious crime *BY ANY MEANS AT HIS DISPOSAL*.

There is no such general legal duty. There very few situations where the
citizen is legally obliged to take an active part in crime fighting.
They are unlikely to occur in a garden.

The only one that springs to mind is money laundering and, short of hanging it on the
line to dry, I really don't see how that could occur in a garden.

Liz (who has been on the money-laundering course)

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:181709

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:34 +0000 (GMT), (Steve Harris) wrote:

In article ,
(Jaques d'Alltrades) wrote:

it is the duty of a citizen to try to apprehend someone in commission
of a serious crime *BY ANY MEANS AT HIS DISPOSAL*.

There is no such general legal duty. There very few situations where the
citizen is legally obliged to take an active part in crime fighting.
They are unlikely to occur in a garden.

The only one that springs to mind is money laundering and, short of hanging it on the
line to dry, I really don't see how that could occur in a garden.

Liz (who has been on the money-laundering course)

On 1 Jan 2004 04:13:06 -0800, (Mike Lyle) wrote:

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . ..
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
[...]
I never understand when this kind of topic comes up why people think
the law is "an ass" for providing that we should avoid putting
dangerous things in proximity to the public. We could all think of
plenty of ways in which a spiky fence might injure the person or
property of a perfectly innocent passer-by; and it's not much harder
to think of perfectly innocent reasons why one of us might need to
scramble over somebody else's boundary without permission.

Mike.

Go on then.

Others in the gang have mentioned a few genuine possibilities already;
but here goes:

My mother trips on a loose paving slab, grabs the nearest thing for
support, and a rusty iron spike goes through her hand.

Fairy nuff if it's a 3 foot fence.

You're walking down the road in the teeth of a rainstorm, and your
expensive umbrella or trench-coat (I know you'd have nothing but the
best) catches on a spike and gets ripped.

Tough luck. It's no more my fault for having pointy railings than if your flash
brolly gets turned inside out by the wind just as you're passing my house.

I'm steering an uncertain course back from the boozer one night and
some part of my marinaded anatomy connects with the projections;
fortunately, I don't bleed to death, but it's touch and go when I get
septicaemia.

But the rainings outside my house are 6 feet tall and you impaled *both* hands.
Hmmm...

I'm away on holiday, so the vicar can't ask me if it's ok to pop into
my garden to retrieve his hat, which has just been blown in there by
the wind.

The vic is sufficiently well known in our road to locate the keyholder and gain
access legitimately. IRL (in real life) one of the houses in our road is empty most
of the time, when the kids lose a football in that back garden even the smallest kid
knows they'll have to wait till the owner calls round **because it's dangerous to
climb the fence**. The small kid I have in mind is just five years old.

Etc, pretty well ad infinitum: these things do happen.

Yes they do, but what do we lose if we sue every time?

Mike.


Liz

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:181709

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:34 +0000 (GMT), (Steve Harris) wrote:

In article ,
(Jaques d'Alltrades) wrote:

it is the duty of a citizen to try to apprehend someone in commission
of a serious crime *BY ANY MEANS AT HIS DISPOSAL*.

There is no such general legal duty. There very few situations where the
citizen is legally obliged to take an active part in crime fighting.
They are unlikely to occur in a garden.

The only one that springs to mind is money laundering and, short of hanging it on the
line to dry, I really don't see how that could occur in a garden.

Liz (who has been on the money-laundering course)

On 1 Jan 2004 04:13:06 -0800, (Mike Lyle) wrote:

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . ..
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
[...]
I never understand when this kind of topic comes up why people think
the law is "an ass" for providing that we should avoid putting
dangerous things in proximity to the public. We could all think of
plenty of ways in which a spiky fence might injure the person or
property of a perfectly innocent passer-by; and it's not much harder
to think of perfectly innocent reasons why one of us might need to
scramble over somebody else's boundary without permission.

Mike.

Go on then.

Others in the gang have mentioned a few genuine possibilities already;
but here goes:

My mother trips on a loose paving slab, grabs the nearest thing for
support, and a rusty iron spike goes through her hand.

Fairy nuff if it's a 3 foot fence.

You're walking down the road in the teeth of a rainstorm, and your
expensive umbrella or trench-coat (I know you'd have nothing but the
best) catches on a spike and gets ripped.

Tough luck. It's no more my fault for having pointy railings than if your flash
brolly gets turned inside out by the wind just as you're passing my house.

I'm steering an uncertain course back from the boozer one night and
some part of my marinaded anatomy connects with the projections;
fortunately, I don't bleed to death, but it's touch and go when I get
septicaemia.

But the rainings outside my house are 6 feet tall and you impaled *both* hands.
Hmmm...

I'm away on holiday, so the vicar can't ask me if it's ok to pop into
my garden to retrieve his hat, which has just been blown in there by
the wind.

The vic is sufficiently well known in our road to locate the keyholder and gain
access legitimately. IRL (in real life) one of the houses in our road is empty most
of the time, when the kids lose a football in that back garden even the smallest kid
knows they'll have to wait till the owner calls round **because it's dangerous to
climb the fence**. The small kid I have in mind is just five years old.

Etc, pretty well ad infinitum: these things do happen.

Yes they do, but what do we lose if we sue every time?

Mike.


Liz

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:181709

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:34 +0000 (GMT), (Steve Harris) wrote:

In article ,
(Jaques d'Alltrades) wrote:

it is the duty of a citizen to try to apprehend someone in commission
of a serious crime *BY ANY MEANS AT HIS DISPOSAL*.

There is no such general legal duty. There very few situations where the
citizen is legally obliged to take an active part in crime fighting.
They are unlikely to occur in a garden.

The only one that springs to mind is money laundering and, short of hanging it on the
line to dry, I really don't see how that could occur in a garden.

Liz (who has been on the money-laundering course)

On 1 Jan 2004 04:13:06 -0800, (Mike Lyle) wrote:

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . ..
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
[...]
I never understand when this kind of topic comes up why people think
the law is "an ass" for providing that we should avoid putting
dangerous things in proximity to the public. We could all think of
plenty of ways in which a spiky fence might injure the person or
property of a perfectly innocent passer-by; and it's not much harder
to think of perfectly innocent reasons why one of us might need to
scramble over somebody else's boundary without permission.

Mike.

Go on then.

Others in the gang have mentioned a few genuine possibilities already;
but here goes:

My mother trips on a loose paving slab, grabs the nearest thing for
support, and a rusty iron spike goes through her hand.

Fairy nuff if it's a 3 foot fence.

You're walking down the road in the teeth of a rainstorm, and your
expensive umbrella or trench-coat (I know you'd have nothing but the
best) catches on a spike and gets ripped.

Tough luck. It's no more my fault for having pointy railings than if your flash
brolly gets turned inside out by the wind just as you're passing my house.

I'm steering an uncertain course back from the boozer one night and
some part of my marinaded anatomy connects with the projections;
fortunately, I don't bleed to death, but it's touch and go when I get
septicaemia.

But the rainings outside my house are 6 feet tall and you impaled *both* hands.
Hmmm...

I'm away on holiday, so the vicar can't ask me if it's ok to pop into
my garden to retrieve his hat, which has just been blown in there by
the wind.

The vic is sufficiently well known in our road to locate the keyholder and gain
access legitimately. IRL (in real life) one of the houses in our road is empty most
of the time, when the kids lose a football in that back garden even the smallest kid
knows they'll have to wait till the owner calls round **because it's dangerous to
climb the fence**. The small kid I have in mind is just five years old.

Etc, pretty well ad infinitum: these things do happen.

Yes they do, but what do we lose if we sue every time?

Mike.


Liz

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:181709

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:34 +0000 (GMT), (Steve Harris) wrote:

In article ,
(Jaques d'Alltrades) wrote:

it is the duty of a citizen to try to apprehend someone in commission
of a serious crime *BY ANY MEANS AT HIS DISPOSAL*.

There is no such general legal duty. There very few situations where the
citizen is legally obliged to take an active part in crime fighting.
They are unlikely to occur in a garden.

The only one that springs to mind is money laundering and, short of hanging it on the
line to dry, I really don't see how that could occur in a garden.

Liz (who has been on the money-laundering course)

In article ,
(Rusty Hinge) wrote:

Most of my books are still in store, but I can assure you that the
barrister who wrote the one I'm quoting from (albeit from memory) is
not one to make an unsubstantiated statement.

I think you should make getting that book out of store a priority :-)

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com