"martin" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:45:56 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Could be . . . unlike certain countries for whom wars
ARE
an asset - those
which host huge weapons manufacturing companies, like
ours, for example.

I am reasonably certain that the Swiss beat us at that
game.

It seems not, Contraves have been on the verge of going
bankrupt for
some time.

{:-))

Franz

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:24:49 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


I have a strong suspicion that Cape Town has hardly any more
muggings, rapes or burglaries per inhabitant than London or
Glasgow.

The town we live in has/claims the lowest crime rate [1] in the
Netherlands
So far we have had 4 or 5 burglaries, one car seriously vandalised,
one car wrecked outside our front door by a woman, who produced
witnesses that weren't present. One witness claimed to be passing in a
large mobile shop, when the accident happened. One car broken into....

[1]Some say because crime isn't properly recorded.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:24:49 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


I have a strong suspicion that Cape Town has hardly any more
muggings, rapes or burglaries per inhabitant than London or
Glasgow.

The town we live in has/claims the lowest crime rate [1] in the
Netherlands
So far we have had 4 or 5 burglaries, one car seriously vandalised,
one car wrecked outside our front door by a woman, who produced
witnesses that weren't present. One witness claimed to be passing in a
large mobile shop, when the accident happened. One car broken into....

[1]Some say because crime isn't properly recorded.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:24:49 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


I have a strong suspicion that Cape Town has hardly any more
muggings, rapes or burglaries per inhabitant than London or
Glasgow.

The town we live in has/claims the lowest crime rate [1] in the
Netherlands
So far we have had 4 or 5 burglaries, one car seriously vandalised,
one car wrecked outside our front door by a woman, who produced
witnesses that weren't present. One witness claimed to be passing in a
large mobile shop, when the accident happened. One car broken into....

[1]Some say because crime isn't properly recorded.

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Whilst flogging away yesterday taking Dahlia cuttings, there was an item
on
Radio 4 about terrorism, and they said that all parts of the Civilised
World
were now at risk.
I just wondered ....What countries make up the Un-civilised world?


Countries where they don't propagate Dahlias?

Steve

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:40:04 -0000, "shazzbat"
wrote:


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Whilst flogging away yesterday taking Dahlia cuttings, there was an item
on
Radio 4 about terrorism, and they said that all parts of the Civilised
World
were now at risk.
I just wondered ....What countries make up the Un-civilised world?


Countries where they don't propagate Dahlias?

You are the fuhrer of the Weakest Link.
Good Bye ... :-)

The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these words:

Come off it, you are dodging the questions.
Would you care to venture answers instead of accusing me
wrongly of attributes which I don't possess?
By the way, I have frequently been called a white kaffir by
white South Africans.

For your information, I was one of the vey few white close
and active supporters of the ANC when I was a student. I
supported the Anti-Apartheid movement through all the years
of the fight against Apartheid. I still support the ANC.
They handled the changeover in South Africa with consummate
skill. That does not by any means mean that my eyes are
blinkered with regard to those parts of Africa which are in
quite obvious need of a good dose of civilisation.

My apologies for such a seriously off-topic contribution. I
can only say that this thread-drift was not started by me.

Franz

I`ve a friend from south africa who has come over to live here for a
couple of years because she is frightened to live in her own country.
Car hijackings, rape and murder are such everyday occurances that she
just does`nt want to be there anymore.

Most bizarre when someone tells you that she can now sleep through the
night confident that every little noise is`nt someone coming to rape
her.

Subject: OT Civilised World?
From: Christopher Norton
Date: 22/03/2004 12:12 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:


I`ve a friend from south africa who has come over to live here for a
couple of years because she is frightened to live in her own country.
Car hijackings, rape and murder are such everyday occurances that she
just does`nt want to be there anymore.


I'm sure the daily mail will do their best to make her feel at home then.
--
Rhiannon
http://www.livejournal.com/users/rhiannon_s/
"The trick is to commit crimes so confusing that police feel too stupid to even
write a crime report about them."
Aubrey on remaining at liberty
www.somethingpositive.net

"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
...



Steady on..... If you don't play to their rules then they'll take the
ball
away and wont let you play with them again.

Citizen Smith became a dentist

Yes but they're a miserable lot aren't they, dentists. Always looking down
in the mouth.


I heard some years ago that dentists really are a miserable lot, and it was
suggested that they were dissatisfied because they wanted to become doctors
but didn't pass the necessary exams, and dentistry was the fallback
position. Don't know if that's accurate or not, but it could explain a few
things

Steve

"Christopher Norton" wrote in
message ...
The message
from "Franz Heymann"
contains these words:

Come off it, you are dodging the questions.
Would you care to venture answers instead of accusing me
wrongly of attributes which I don't possess?
By the way, I have frequently been called a white kaffir
by
white South Africans.

For your information, I was one of the vey few white
close
and active supporters of the ANC when I was a student.
I
supported the Anti-Apartheid movement through all the
years
of the fight against Apartheid. I still support the
ANC.
They handled the changeover in South Africa with
consummate
skill. That does not by any means mean that my eyes are
blinkered with regard to those parts of Africa which are
in
quite obvious need of a good dose of civilisation.

My apologies for such a seriously off-topic
contribution. I
can only say that this thread-drift was not started by
me.

Franz

I`ve a friend from south africa who has come over to live
here for a
couple of years because she is frightened to live in her
own country.
Car hijackings, rape and murder are such everyday
occurances that she
just does`nt want to be there anymore.

Most bizarre when someone tells you that she can now sleep
through the
night confident that every little noise is`nt someone
coming to rape
her.

White South Africans produce a lot of anecdotal stories but
litle statistics.
I have 4 brothers and 12 cousins, all married and with
families. Most of their children in turn have children of
their own. Not one of them has ever been burgled, raped or
mugged.
I have lived in England since 1947, and have been burgled
twice.

I have a strong suspicion that Cape Town has hardly any more
muggings, rapes or burglaries per inhabitant than London or
Glasgow.

Franz

"martin" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:45:56 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Could be . . . unlike certain countries for whom wars
ARE
an asset - those
which host huge weapons manufacturing companies, like
ours, for example.

I am reasonably certain that the Swiss beat us at that
game.

It seems not, Contraves have been on the verge of going
bankrupt for
some time.

{:-))

Franz

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:24:49 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


I have a strong suspicion that Cape Town has hardly any more
muggings, rapes or burglaries per inhabitant than London or
Glasgow.

The town we live in has/claims the lowest crime rate [1] in the
Netherlands
So far we have had 4 or 5 burglaries, one car seriously vandalised,
one car wrecked outside our front door by a woman, who produced
witnesses that weren't present. One witness claimed to be passing in a
large mobile shop, when the accident happened. One car broken into....

[1]Some say because crime isn't properly recorded.

You're my hero Franz. If you stood up to the apartheid SA government and
lived, you righteously deserve the title.

If you ever find yourself in front of a bulldozer on the West Bank and need
a hand, just give me a call, and I will be there. You are a

*

Andy

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
...


Would you call a country in which female circumcision is
practiced civilised?
Would you call countries like Ruanda and Congo
civilised?
Or indeed would you call any country which has an army
consisting of boy-soldiers civilised?
Would you call a country in which women are treated like
second class citizens and/or chattels civilised?


. . . or a country which executes the mentally ill, has
the highest gun
crime rate in the world, has the highest proportion of its
population in
prison (mostly ethnic minorities) of any country in the
world, produces 25%
of the world's pollution whilst having only 4% of the
world's population,
produces and exports the highest quantity of lethal
weapons in the world, is
the only country ever to have used nuclear weapons against
civilian
populations, has over 50% of its population suffering from
obesity, is
responsible for attacking more countries in the 20th
century than any other
country in the world, and has kept hundreds of foreign
nationals imprisoned
for years on end without charge, trial or representation
in cages exposed to
the elements, in violation of the Geneva Convention? A
country which
provided targeting information for Saddam Hussein's
chemical weapons in the
Iran-Iraq war, uses radioactive waste in its battlefield
munitions, and
whose covert operations have resulted in the deaths of
millions of civilians
worldwide, and the destabilisation and overthrow of such
democratically
elected heads of state as Salvador Allende of Chile? A
country whose use of
chemical and biological weapons has left the soil of
countries like Vietnam
and Cambodia poisoned for generations after its genocidal
attacks, producing
horrific birth defects to this day?

Thanks for putting it quite so eloquently.
You forgot two items:
And has not paid its subscriptions to the UN for many years
now
And has had subverted the function of the UN by bugging the
office of its Secretary General.

Franz

IMHO




"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
...
You're my hero Franz. If you stood up to the apartheid SA government and
lived, you righteously deserve the title.

If you ever find yourself in front of a bulldozer on the West Bank and
need
a hand, just give me a call, and I will be there. You are a

*

Andy

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
...


Would you call a country in which female circumcision is
practiced civilised?
Would you call countries like Ruanda and Congo
civilised?
Or indeed would you call any country which has an army
consisting of boy-soldiers civilised?
Would you call a country in which women are treated like
second class citizens and/or chattels civilised?


. . . or a country which executes the mentally ill, has
the highest gun
crime rate in the world, has the highest proportion of its
population in
prison (mostly ethnic minorities) of any country in the
world, produces 25%
of the world's pollution whilst having only 4% of the
world's population,
produces and exports the highest quantity of lethal
weapons in the world, is
the only country ever to have used nuclear weapons against
civilian
populations, has over 50% of its population suffering from
obesity, is
responsible for attacking more countries in the 20th
century than any other
country in the world, and has kept hundreds of foreign
nationals imprisoned
for years on end without charge, trial or representation
in cages exposed to
the elements, in violation of the Geneva Convention? A
country which
provided targeting information for Saddam Hussein's
chemical weapons in the
Iran-Iraq war, uses radioactive waste in its battlefield
munitions, and
whose covert operations have resulted in the deaths of
millions of civilians
worldwide, and the destabilisation and overthrow of such
democratically
elected heads of state as Salvador Allende of Chile? A
country whose use of
chemical and biological weapons has left the soil of
countries like Vietnam
and Cambodia poisoned for generations after its genocidal
attacks, producing
horrific birth defects to this day?

Thanks for putting it quite so eloquently.
You forgot two items:
And has not paid its subscriptions to the UN for many years
now
And has had subverted the function of the UN by bugging the
office of its Secretary General.

Franz

http://www.rachelcorrie.org/





"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
...


Would you call a country in which female circumcision is
practiced civilised?
Would you call countries like Ruanda and Congo
civilised?
Or indeed would you call any country which has an army
consisting of boy-soldiers civilised?
Would you call a country in which women are treated like
second class citizens and/or chattels civilised?


. . . or a country which executes the mentally ill, has
the highest gun
crime rate in the world, has the highest proportion of its
population in
prison (mostly ethnic minorities) of any country in the
world, produces 25%
of the world's pollution whilst having only 4% of the
world's population,
produces and exports the highest quantity of lethal
weapons in the world, is
the only country ever to have used nuclear weapons against
civilian
populations, has over 50% of its population suffering from
obesity, is
responsible for attacking more countries in the 20th
century than any other
country in the world, and has kept hundreds of foreign
nationals imprisoned
for years on end without charge, trial or representation
in cages exposed to
the elements, in violation of the Geneva Convention? A
country which
provided targeting information for Saddam Hussein's
chemical weapons in the
Iran-Iraq war, uses radioactive waste in its battlefield
munitions, and
whose covert operations have resulted in the deaths of
millions of civilians
worldwide, and the destabilisation and overthrow of such
democratically
elected heads of state as Salvador Allende of Chile? A
country whose use of
chemical and biological weapons has left the soil of
countries like Vietnam
and Cambodia poisoned for generations after its genocidal
attacks, producing
horrific birth defects to this day?

Thanks for putting it quite so eloquently.
You forgot two items:
And has not paid its subscriptions to the UN for many years
now
And has had subverted the function of the UN by bugging the
office of its Secretary General.

Franz