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Toddler and laburnum
I have a toddler and a medium-sized laburnum tree at the back of my garden,
which seems to produce a lot of seeds. How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) ROSIE |
#2
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Toddler and laburnum
"Rosie" wrote in message ... I have a toddler and a medium-sized laburnum tree at the back of my garden, which seems to produce a lot of seeds. How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) ROSIE According to a web search, as little as two seeds can produce symptoms, and most places say its poisonous, down to parania about people wondering if the wood is dangerous (well y4es but only if you eat it....) OTOH if its as deadly as reported, how come actual deaths from it appear to be incredibly rare? This looks like a reasonable reference. http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/spib/summer02.pdf I did also find a lancet ref which said that it wasnt as dangerous as had been feared. I suppose once people decide its dangerous no one is going to bother to investigate exactly how dangerous,and if a horse dies from eating loads of the stuff that is regarded as proof, rather than as proof of the stupidity and or sensitivity of horses. You might also, from a longer term POV, consider if it would be better to teach her not to eat stuff she doesnt know is good, rather than try and remove anything remotely dangerous, which is obviously impossible since you can only affect whats in your garden. If you remove the tree, how will she know not to eat the seeds from another laburnum elsewhere, or other 'pretty' berries. Maybe in a couple of years time she'll be round a friends house playing in the garden, what if they have a laburnum?,My parents drummed it into me not to eat berries off trees or bushes unless I knew they were OK, had they shorn the garden of all such plants, there would have been nothing to warn me against :-) -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address |
#3
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Toddler and laburnum
The message
from "Rosie" contains these words: I have a toddler and a medium-sized laburnum tree at the back of my garden, which seems to produce a lot of seeds. How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? No. (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) It's your job to make sure she doesn't! -- AnneJ ICQ #:- 119531282 |
#4
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Toddler and laburnum
All parts are very poisonous but taste terrible.
The fruits [pods] do look similar to miniature garden peas to a child and that is the danger. Many other plants are as poisonous but don't look so 'grown up' or so familiar and tempting. To remove or not must be your own decision~~the cut wood is most attractive. I had adventurous children and several Laburnums with no ill effect. If the chid did manage to eat some [not very many] and swallow [without spitting out] then would become ill to very ill. I have found that children do take notice of warnings and don't 'try out for themselves'. Best Wishes "Rosie" wrote in message ... I have a toddler and a medium-sized laburnum tree at the back of my garden, which seems to produce a lot of seeds. How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) ROSIE |
#5
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Toddler and laburnum
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:03:25 +0100, "Rosie" wrote:
I have a toddler and a medium-sized laburnum tree at the back of my garden, which seems to produce a lot of seeds. How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) All parts of the laburnum are poisonous - though most cases of poisoning come from children eating the unripened seed pods, which resemble small pea pods. Having said that, I've raised two toddlers so far with a laburnum in the garden - in fact it's one of the trees the kids climb up - without any incident. I've another toddler who'll be crawling round the garden this summer - and to be honest I'm far more worried about the vicious red ants we have in these parts, they pack one hell of a painful sting. There are many hazards in the garden - ranging from poisonous plants, fungi, animal and bird droppings etc, but even toddlers will learn quite quickly if you're on hand to administer a very stern and loud NO! Tends to result in a flood of tears, and breaks your heart, but children will soon forget the pain - and remember the message, and it's a message they'll take with them wherever they go. I have tasted both the green pod and the ripe black seed as a child - and I'm here to tell you that I really can't understand how anyone could eat any sort of quantity of the things, they're both intensely bitter. It's a fine tree, with cool foliage and fantastic yellow blooms - so it'd be a shame to lop it down. Could you not perhaps prune it back hard this year? This would cut down on the blooms, and with a suitable pair of long-handled shears you might even be able to dead head the blooms ( if any ). Ultimately though, it IS a poisonous plant - and I doubt many parents would blame you if you preferred not to live with the risk. Regards, -- Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk |
#6
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Toddler and laburnum
"Rosie" wrote in message ... I have a toddler and a medium-sized laburnum tree at the back of my garden, which seems to produce a lot of seeds. How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) ROSIE If it was us, we would get rid of the tree. Our daughter had a Laburnum tree over her pond. The seeds/pods dropped into the pond. The fish died. Mike (after taking advice from Joan) -- H.M.S.Newfoundland Association Reunion Hayling Island April 23rd - 26th Royal Naval Reunion Eastbourne May 7th - 10th H.M.S.Collingwood Association Reunion Bracklesham Bay May 21st - 24th Nat.Service (RAF) Assoc. Cosford Parade / Social Weekend 25th - 28th June |
#7
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Toddler and laburnum
Rosie16/4/04 10:03
I have a toddler and a medium-sized laburnum tree at the back of my garden, which seems to produce a lot of seeds. How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) To be honest, only you can figure out how much this is going to worry you. Laburnums are poisonous but you might want to ring up either the RHS or e.g. Great Ormond Street Hospital to get some figures on how many children have died or even been taken seriously ill from eating any part of this plant. The warnings must be given, IMO but the actualities are another matter. I brought up 3 children of my own and now have a grand daughter and I think I can fairly say that I am *very* safety conscious - very - and we have just planted a short laburnum arch in our garden. You simply don't allow a small child to wander a garden alone - our grand daughter loves the bright red berries of cuckoo pint and picked several last year - but because one of us was always with her, she didn't get them as far as her mouth and was taught firmly that they are not to be touched. She has now learned that going to the fish pond without a grown up is a no-no and that's because I am *very* strict with her about that - but never complacent. I have never once had a child related to me (or any other child for that matter) ingest or be affected by any poisonous plant but I have had alarms with nearly all of them picking up and stuffing in their mouths bits and pieces they've found or picked up e.g. coins, rubbers, pencils, small toys, bits of chewed paper and a few serious attempts on things like paper clips. I once read of a very small baby choking to death on a piece of tissue handkerchief with which its father had wiped its mouth. But death by plant material? Never, in my experience.. -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) |
#8
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Toddler and laburnum
Quote from the RHS Gardening Manual "Unsuitable for a family garden as all parts are toxic if eaten" Mike (& Joan) |
#9
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Toddler and laburnum
and don't cross the road and don't go near the River and .............
I agree with you on teaching the awareness of danger, but the poster has come on asking for advice. They are well aware of the danger and point out that the youngster does tend to put things in her mouth, as all children do. Our eldest daughter, at the age of 3/4 was found eating coal!! 'Our' recommendation is on this occassion, to remove the tree. Poisonous? I can remember as a youngster when pea shooters were the rage, having a mouthful of laburnum seeds as 'ammo'. I was never told they were dangerous!! But I am still here aren't I? :-)) Mike. Yes, still here :-)) -- H.M.S.Newfoundland Association Reunion Hayling Island April 23rd - 26th Royal Naval Reunion Eastbourne May 7th - 10th H.M.S.Collingwood Association Reunion Bracklesham Bay May 21st - 24th Nat.Service (RAF) Assoc. Cosford Parade / Social Weekend 25th - 28th June |
#10
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Toddler and laburnum
A quick google search for Laburnum Poison brought up several interesting
items including this extract from http://medtox.org/info/pdq/web%20summer%202003.pdf Poisoning in Children: Laburnum Laburnum (also known as golden rain/ chain) is a smallish, decorative tree often planted in parks and gardens. In late spring it is covered in flowing bright yellow flowers. Seeds develop in pea-like pods in summer and often remain on the tree all winter. Case report1: At a barbeque 3 children had their own party further down the garden where they had found a tree with 'peas' on it. They were caught nibbling these 'peas' by a parent who had heard laburnum was very poisonous and were rushed to hospital. A 3 year-old boy who had eaten 4 seeds remained well. A 5 yearold girl vomited twice on arrival and had colicky abdominal pain and a 4 year-old boy who said he had eaten 1 pod experienced profuse vomiting, tachycardia and twitching. The children all recovered with supportive care. Comment: All parts of the tree especially the bark and seeds contain the toxin cytisine which resembles nicotine. Fortunately ingestion of laburnum usually causes only gastrointestinal upset. Severe intoxication is rare but may result in neurological symptoms. Effects may appear within 1 hour2 and include 'burning' of the oropharynx, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain and diarrhoea. Headache, dizziness, confusion, dilated pupils, clammy skin, tachycardia, pyrexia, dyspnoea and drowsiness are possible later. Recovery is usually complete within 12-24 hours. Massive amounts of cytisine could cause hallucinations, convulsions, respiratory failure, coma and even death3. Children should be given activated charcoal if they have eaten more than 5 seeds. Asymptomatic patients should be observed for a minimum of 6 hours post ingestion. Laburnum seeds are usually ingested by 5- 10 year-olds rather than toddlers!FN Refs: 1. NPIS(L) 95/105355 2. Fuller TC, McClintock E (1986). Poisonous Plants of California. University of California Press: Berkeley, California. 3. Cooper MR, Johnson AW (1998). Poisonous Plants and Fungi in Britain, Ed. 2. The Stationery Office: London. Key point: Systemic toxicity may occur following ingestion of laburnum seeds -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
#11
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Toddler and laburnum
How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) ROSIE At the end of the day, it is your decision as to whether or not to remove poisonous plants from your own garden. When I was a childminder, I was not allowed to have anything poisonous in my garden. The fact I watched minded children like a hawk was beside the point! Social Services provided childminders with a list of recognised poisonous plants. I don't childmind any more but still have young children of my own. I kill off the nightshade that grows thro my fence from force of habit and having paranoia drummed into me as a child as to "how terribly poisonous" this was. But I don't worry about anything else - foxgloves grow quite happily in one corner. I have a laurel tree overhanging the garden and it dumps it's berries on my lawn annually. The kids know that they are not allowed to even touch any berries of any kind without my permission. Until they were old enough to understand that, they were supervised pretty closely anyway. In fact if I even mention the word poisonous now, they steer well clear of such things. The problem comes when I have a friend's child over and they don't understand these things. I grew up having a reasonable knowledge of and respect for what was and wasn't poisonous - and therefore what is and isn't edible! I teach my kids the same. Obviously, they could do anything the moment your back is turned and you know your own child best. Because I now use all sorts of berries, leaves and herbs from the wild for wine, jam and general cooking, they also learn from me about the safety of plants. And there's nothing like picking rosehips with your kids and introducing them to the itching powder effect of the hairs inside the fruit! I understand that apple leaves are poisonous to a degree and removed one of those from my baby son's mouth once (that baby is now 9). But then he also had a liking for woodlice............. I belong to the Alan Titchmarsh school of thought that it is better to educate children about the dangers of plants rather than remove them altogether. Vicky |
#12
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Toddler and laburnum
In article , Vicky
writes I belong to the Alan Titchmarsh school of thought that it is better to educate children about the dangers of plants rather than remove them altogether. Exactly . . . if you cocoon them when they are little, they don't stand a chance when they become independent adults ( -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see |
#13
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Toddler and laburnum
How poisonous are these seeds? They do seem to get everywhere. Would I be best off getting rid of the tree? No. (Obviously she isn't left to wander around the garden by herself, but she does like shoving things in her mouth.) It's your job to make sure she doesn't! I had an acquaintance once who gave very definite answers like yours when it came to the subject of controlling/teaching children. Both he and his wife were in their 50's so knew right from wrong and what children should do and what they should not do. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. He and his wife had no children :-)) Mike -- H.M.S.Newfoundland Association Reunion Hayling Island April 23rd - 26th Royal Naval Reunion Eastbourne May 7th - 10th H.M.S.Collingwood Association Reunion Bracklesham Bay May 21st - 24th Nat.Service (RAF) Assoc. Cosford Parade / Social Weekend 25th - 28th June |
#14
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Toddler and laburnum
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#15
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Toddler and laburnum
Thanks for all the advice and wise words.
I think I will keep the tree. I agree that educating my daughter not to eat anything in the garden is the best approach. So far her main gardening activity is digging up worms and snails and 'cuddling' them. (She is always supervised in the garden and whilst of course it is 'my job' to do that, one does occasionally get distracted by the odd weed that needs tending...) Thanks for advice and thoughts! ROSIE |
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