In article , gary davis
writes

Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.

That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.

But if I were a lobbyist for the non-organic farming industry, the
amount of travel involved for organic produce is just what I would be
talking about loud and wide ... so .. I don't know. Perhaps the demand
for organic produce, at present being fulfilled by imported stuff, will
encourage more organic producers in this country and in the longer run
reduce the need for imports.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article ,
Alan Gould wrote:
In article , Nick Apostolakis
writes
(of course it is better to not use them) it is possible that you can get
them through other agriculturla procuts as milk, meat etc.

so even if you do not use pesticides you could be eating pesticides all
the same.

Supplies of certified organic milk, dairy produce and meat, free of
pesticides etc. are available just as vegetables and fruit are.

See someone else's posting about natural pesticides - I believe
that milk contains natural antibiotics, which is one reason that
pasteurised milk goes off far faster than fresh milk does.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , gary davis
writes

Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.

That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.

But if I were a lobbyist for the non-organic farming industry, the
amount of travel involved for organic produce is just what I would be
talking about loud and wide ... so .. I don't know. Perhaps the demand
for organic produce, at present being fulfilled by imported stuff, will
encourage more organic producers in this country and in the longer run
reduce the need for imports.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article ,
Alan Gould wrote:
In article , Nick Apostolakis
writes
(of course it is better to not use them) it is possible that you can get
them through other agriculturla procuts as milk, meat etc.

so even if you do not use pesticides you could be eating pesticides all
the same.

Supplies of certified organic milk, dairy produce and meat, free of
pesticides etc. are available just as vegetables and fruit are.

See someone else's posting about natural pesticides - I believe
that milk contains natural antibiotics, which is one reason that
pasteurised milk goes off far faster than fresh milk does.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , gary davis
writes


Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.


That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.


well obviously you do not take into account the polution that comes from
the pesticide industry and the destruction of your own local environment
(water, soil etc) from your local traditional farmers. I believe that
this is a much larger amount than the one done by the exhaust pipes of
the trucks that carry the organic to your country so dont feel guilty
about it. Just encourage more of your local farmers to use organic technics.

In my country we have very few oraganic and a lot of traditional farmers
that do not even think of changing their way of producing.

--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

"......... lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a
pesticide. The pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non
toxic elements..............."

What this in fact means is that the pesticide will be inactive within about
7 days, the rest of the time is the safety barrier that the company has to
have to allow for people using it stronger than it should be, for adverse
weather conditions etc that may slow down the plants metabolism.

As for washing the veg/fruit this does nothing for systemic sprays, but
with the re introduction of old so called organic sprays then washing is
good as most will remain on the surface.
Also a lot of fruit is either sprayed or dipped after picking to maintain
condition in the box during transit and storage.

Finally...when it comes to buying from local "certified" organic growers
(and many will say that anyone in the UK trying to make a living from
growing Organic should be certified), the organic prices are falling every
year and several large organic growers in the UK have given up as they can't
make it pay any longer even using foreign labour for harvesting.
This is largely due to the imported "Organic" produce being imported from
low wage economies.
Where Spain was one of these a few years ago, now the Spanish growers are
having to use imported labour (Mostly Moroccan) as the Spanish workers are
now to expensive to employ.
In the UK it is getting very hard to find British people to work on the land
and every year many thousands of foreign workers come here to harvest fruit
and veg.
This reminds me of the 50's when we brought in West Indians because the
British wouldn't do jobs like bus driving etc.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , gary davis
writes


Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.


That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.


well obviously you do not take into account the polution that comes from
the pesticide industry and the destruction of your own local environment
(water, soil etc) from your local traditional farmers. I believe that
this is a much larger amount than the one done by the exhaust pipes of
the trucks that carry the organic to your country so dont feel guilty
about it. Just encourage more of your local farmers to use organic technics.

In my country we have very few oraganic and a lot of traditional farmers
that do not even think of changing their way of producing.

--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

"......... lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a
pesticide. The pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non
toxic elements..............."

What this in fact means is that the pesticide will be inactive within about
7 days, the rest of the time is the safety barrier that the company has to
have to allow for people using it stronger than it should be, for adverse
weather conditions etc that may slow down the plants metabolism.

As for washing the veg/fruit this does nothing for systemic sprays, but
with the re introduction of old so called organic sprays then washing is
good as most will remain on the surface.
Also a lot of fruit is either sprayed or dipped after picking to maintain
condition in the box during transit and storage.

Finally...when it comes to buying from local "certified" organic growers
(and many will say that anyone in the UK trying to make a living from
growing Organic should be certified), the organic prices are falling every
year and several large organic growers in the UK have given up as they can't
make it pay any longer even using foreign labour for harvesting.
This is largely due to the imported "Organic" produce being imported from
low wage economies.
Where Spain was one of these a few years ago, now the Spanish growers are
having to use imported labour (Mostly Moroccan) as the Spanish workers are
now to expensive to employ.
In the UK it is getting very hard to find British people to work on the land
and every year many thousands of foreign workers come here to harvest fruit
and veg.
This reminds me of the 50's when we brought in West Indians because the
British wouldn't do jobs like bus driving etc.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , gary davis
writes


Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.


That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.


well obviously you do not take into account the polution that comes from
the pesticide industry and the destruction of your own local environment
(water, soil etc) from your local traditional farmers. I believe that
this is a much larger amount than the one done by the exhaust pipes of
the trucks that carry the organic to your country so dont feel guilty
about it. Just encourage more of your local farmers to use organic technics.

In my country we have very few oraganic and a lot of traditional farmers
that do not even think of changing their way of producing.

--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

"......... lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a
pesticide. The pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non
toxic elements..............."

What this in fact means is that the pesticide will be inactive within about
7 days, the rest of the time is the safety barrier that the company has to
have to allow for people using it stronger than it should be, for adverse
weather conditions etc that may slow down the plants metabolism.

As for washing the veg/fruit this does nothing for systemic sprays, but
with the re introduction of old so called organic sprays then washing is
good as most will remain on the surface.
Also a lot of fruit is either sprayed or dipped after picking to maintain
condition in the box during transit and storage.

Finally...when it comes to buying from local "certified" organic growers
(and many will say that anyone in the UK trying to make a living from
growing Organic should be certified), the organic prices are falling every
year and several large organic growers in the UK have given up as they can't
make it pay any longer even using foreign labour for harvesting.
This is largely due to the imported "Organic" produce being imported from
low wage economies.
Where Spain was one of these a few years ago, now the Spanish growers are
having to use imported labour (Mostly Moroccan) as the Spanish workers are
now to expensive to employ.
In the UK it is getting very hard to find British people to work on the land
and every year many thousands of foreign workers come here to harvest fruit
and veg.
This reminds me of the 50's when we brought in West Indians because the
British wouldn't do jobs like bus driving etc.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , gary davis
writes


Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.


That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.


well obviously you do not take into account the polution that comes from
the pesticide industry and the destruction of your own local environment
(water, soil etc) from your local traditional farmers. I believe that
this is a much larger amount than the one done by the exhaust pipes of
the trucks that carry the organic to your country so dont feel guilty
about it. Just encourage more of your local farmers to use organic technics.

In my country we have very few oraganic and a lot of traditional farmers
that do not even think of changing their way of producing.

--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

"......... lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a
pesticide. The pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non
toxic elements..............."

What this in fact means is that the pesticide will be inactive within about
7 days, the rest of the time is the safety barrier that the company has to
have to allow for people using it stronger than it should be, for adverse
weather conditions etc that may slow down the plants metabolism.

As for washing the veg/fruit this does nothing for systemic sprays, but
with the re introduction of old so called organic sprays then washing is
good as most will remain on the surface.
Also a lot of fruit is either sprayed or dipped after picking to maintain
condition in the box during transit and storage.

Finally...when it comes to buying from local "certified" organic growers
(and many will say that anyone in the UK trying to make a living from
growing Organic should be certified), the organic prices are falling every
year and several large organic growers in the UK have given up as they can't
make it pay any longer even using foreign labour for harvesting.
This is largely due to the imported "Organic" produce being imported from
low wage economies.
Where Spain was one of these a few years ago, now the Spanish growers are
having to use imported labour (Mostly Moroccan) as the Spanish workers are
now to expensive to employ.
In the UK it is getting very hard to find British people to work on the land
and every year many thousands of foreign workers come here to harvest fruit
and veg.
This reminds me of the 50's when we brought in West Indians because the
British wouldn't do jobs like bus driving etc.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , gary davis
writes


Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.


That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.


well obviously you do not take into account the polution that comes from
the pesticide industry and the destruction of your own local environment
(water, soil etc) from your local traditional farmers. I believe that
this is a much larger amount than the one done by the exhaust pipes of
the trucks that carry the organic to your country so dont feel guilty
about it. Just encourage more of your local farmers to use organic technics.

In my country we have very few oraganic and a lot of traditional farmers
that do not even think of changing their way of producing.

--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

"......... lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a
pesticide. The pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non
toxic elements..............."

What this in fact means is that the pesticide will be inactive within about
7 days, the rest of the time is the safety barrier that the company has to
have to allow for people using it stronger than it should be, for adverse
weather conditions etc that may slow down the plants metabolism.

As for washing the veg/fruit this does nothing for systemic sprays, but
with the re introduction of old so called organic sprays then washing is
good as most will remain on the surface.
Also a lot of fruit is either sprayed or dipped after picking to maintain
condition in the box during transit and storage.

Finally...when it comes to buying from local "certified" organic growers
(and many will say that anyone in the UK trying to make a living from
growing Organic should be certified), the organic prices are falling every
year and several large organic growers in the UK have given up as they can't
make it pay any longer even using foreign labour for harvesting.
This is largely due to the imported "Organic" produce being imported from
low wage economies.
Where Spain was one of these a few years ago, now the Spanish growers are
having to use imported labour (Mostly Moroccan) as the Spanish workers are
now to expensive to employ.
In the UK it is getting very hard to find British people to work on the land
and every year many thousands of foreign workers come here to harvest fruit
and veg.
This reminds me of the 50's when we brought in West Indians because the
British wouldn't do jobs like bus driving etc.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , gary davis
writes


Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.


That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.


well obviously you do not take into account the polution that comes from
the pesticide industry and the destruction of your own local environment
(water, soil etc) from your local traditional farmers. I believe that
this is a much larger amount than the one done by the exhaust pipes of
the trucks that carry the organic to your country so dont feel guilty
about it. Just encourage more of your local farmers to use organic technics.

In my country we have very few oraganic and a lot of traditional farmers
that do not even think of changing their way of producing.

--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------