On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:23:00 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
Huge snip

Well summarised.

70 odd lines quoted, to add but two words?
Oh the irony...

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:23:00 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
Huge snip

Well summarised.

70 odd lines quoted, to add but two words?
Oh the irony...

Look up the meaning of the word "irony" and use it correctly next
time.

And by the way, unlike you, I don't snip context.

Franz

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:21:14 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:23:00 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
Huge snip

Well summarised.

70 odd lines quoted, to add but two words?
Oh the irony...

Look up the meaning of the word "irony" and use it correctly next
time.

Irony is banned in organic farming, no chemical derivatives please.


And by the way, unlike you, I don't snip context.

It was the context he didn't like :-)

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:21:14 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:23:00 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
Huge snip

Well summarised.

70 odd lines quoted, to add but two words?
Oh the irony...

Look up the meaning of the word "irony" and use it correctly next
time.

The usage is spot on.

And by the way, unlike you, I don't snip context.

You just did. Keep it up.



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

martin wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:33:12 +0300, Nick Apostolakis
wrote:


In the big plastic tunnels? I remember seeing a large plain full of
them in southern Crete.


if you traveled through southern Crete then you propably passed through
my village

what exactly do you mean by plastic tunnels?
how big were they?

it could be a type of greenhouse which is permanent or it could be a
first stage aid in open field cultivations of mellons or water mellons
that are removed later.

these things are used in the intensive types of agriculture that i
mentioned and they usually have nothing to do with organic farming.
of course there are organic greenhouses but they are too few.


the first type is one of very heavy use of pesticides, fertilisers and
water because as you all know the greenhouse is a very intensive type o
cultivation.


How are all the tomatoes grown that we used to see in hundreds of
trailers near Patras?

Their farming is probably more organic than "Organic" :-)


well when i say intensive i mean really intensive.


ah and about the fishes. you are absolytely right.
we have destroyed (almost) all the fishes of our seas with dynamite
fishing. this fishing i illegal as it destroys everything edible or not.
the authorities try to prevent it but as you know we have a lot of coast
lines so it is not an easy job.
--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/10/04 8:11 AM, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:47:47 GMT, gary davis
wrote:

On 6/8/04 11:05 PM, in article , "Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"Nick Apostolakis" wrote in message
...
Nick Apostolakis wrote:

i do not know any water analysis test about pesticide traces in
water
but that is relevant with the type of the aquifer anyway so it may
or
may not be very important.


by the way i saw just today a water analysis for an area near my
own.
guess what. they found all the mainstream pollutants nitrates, Ar,
pesticide traces and all the good stuff.

Please quote the concentrations found and compare them with the
legally limiting concentrations.

Franz, I quote from your message above..."legally limiting
concentrations"???? So, just poison our water a little bit and that is OK?

The legal limit is set at a level that is not a poison.

That is what you are saying.
Certified organic farmers want zero, I repeat zero, contamination of the
water.

Unless they intend to use distilled water that is impossible.

That is why they will not/ do not use chemicals harmful to the
environment.

All water has chemicals in it naturally, some harmful to people some
not.

You say you are 80 years old, if you are, do you not remember drinking
water from a stream. Would you not like to do that again? That is what
certified organic farmers are striving to achieve.

perhaps these farmers should stop using copper sulphate mixed with
lime as a pesticide?

In other words, I suggest to use no chemicals. Period! Well, except for
salt on your hard boiled eggs...

Eliminating chemicals is the aim of the Henry Doubleday Soil Research
Association, but not that of organic farmers, organic farmers use
authorised chemicals.

See "Pesticides in organic farming"
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/pn58/pn58p6.htm




as i say above everything depends from the aquifer type. if it is
under
pressure you may get away with it. if it is an open aquifer then you
have a problem.

The water you dream of doesn't exist anywhere in Western Europe.
I recall that after Chernobyl Greek farmers were obliged to plough
their tomato crops into the ground, because the tomatoes were heavily
contaminated with radioactive fall out. I guess that the chemicals
with a long half life are still their.
Franz you can read the words but you're missing the music.... Some people
don't want to hear 'the music' for different reasons. As for me, I do what I
believe is the right thing. You do also, I presume...carry on "Ol' timer"!
Gary
Fort Langley BC
Canada

To reply please remove...yoursocks...

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:209661

On 6/11/04 9:06 AM, in article , "Nick
Apostolakis" wrote:

martin wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:33:12 +0300, Nick Apostolakis
wrote:


In the big plastic tunnels? I remember seeing a large plain full of
them in southern Crete.


if you traveled through southern Crete then you propably passed through
my village

what exactly do you mean by plastic tunnels?
how big were they?

it could be a type of greenhouse which is permanent or it could be a
first stage aid in open field cultivations of mellons or water mellons
that are removed later.

these things are used in the intensive types of agriculture that i
mentioned and they usually have nothing to do with organic farming.
of course there are organic greenhouses but they are too few.


the first type is one of very heavy use of pesticides, fertilisers and
water because as you all know the greenhouse is a very intensive type o
cultivation.


How are all the tomatoes grown that we used to see in hundreds of
trailers near Patras?

Their farming is probably more organic than "Organic" :-)


well when i say intensive i mean really intensive.


ah and about the fishes. you are absolytely right.
we have destroyed (almost) all the fishes of our seas with dynamite
fishing. this fishing i illegal as it destroys everything edible or not.
the authorities try to prevent it but as you know we have a lot of coast
lines so it is not an easy job.


Yes, a similar problem we had here in Canada. A fisheries officer, after
much sleuthing, discovered the main culprit and arranged a fishing trip with
same.

They set off and after a time, having caught nothing, the 'suspect' reaches
into his fishing bag and pulls out a stick of dynamite.

Before the fisheries officer notices this, the dynamite is lit. "You aren't
going to use THAT are you?" Yells the officer. The suspect throws the lit
dynamite stick to the officer and says "Are you going to talk or fish?"

Gary
Fort Langley BC
Canada

"gary davis" wrote in message
...
On 6/10/04 8:11 AM, in article
,
"martin" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:47:47 GMT, gary davis

wrote:

On 6/8/04 11:05 PM, in article ,
"Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"Nick Apostolakis" wrote in message
...
Nick Apostolakis wrote:

i do not know any water analysis test about pesticide traces
in
water
but that is relevant with the type of the aquifer anyway so it
may
or
may not be very important.


by the way i saw just today a water analysis for an area near
my
own.
guess what. they found all the mainstream pollutants nitrates,
Ar,
pesticide traces and all the good stuff.

Please quote the concentrations found and compare them with the
legally limiting concentrations.

Franz, I quote from your message above..."legally limiting
concentrations"???? So, just poison our water a little bit and
that is OK?

The legal limit is set at a level that is not a poison.

That is what you are saying.
Certified organic farmers want zero, I repeat zero,
contamination of the
water.

Unless they intend to use distilled water that is impossible.

That is why they will not/ do not use chemicals harmful to the
environment.

All water has chemicals in it naturally, some harmful to people
some
not.

You say you are 80 years old, if you are, do you not remember
drinking
water from a stream. Would you not like to do that again? That is
what
certified organic farmers are striving to achieve.

perhaps these farmers should stop using copper sulphate mixed with
lime as a pesticide?

In other words, I suggest to use no chemicals. Period! Well,
except for
salt on your hard boiled eggs...

Eliminating chemicals is the aim of the Henry Doubleday Soil
Research
Association, but not that of organic farmers, organic farmers use
authorised chemicals.

See "Pesticides in organic farming"
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/pn58/pn58p6.htm




as i say above everything depends from the aquifer type. if it
is
under
pressure you may get away with it. if it is an open aquifer
then you
have a problem.

The water you dream of doesn't exist anywhere in Western Europe.
I recall that after Chernobyl Greek farmers were obliged to
plough
their tomato crops into the ground, because the tomatoes were
heavily
contaminated with radioactive fall out. I guess that the chemicals
with a long half life are still their.

Franz you can read the words but you're missing the music.... Some
people
don't want to hear 'the music' for different reasons. As for me, I
do what I
believe is the right thing. You do also, I presume...carry on "Ol'
timer"!
Gary

It is not clear to me what I said where and when which elicited that
response from you.
How about having a recount of the attribution marks, and then replying
to the correct person?

Franz

On 6/13/04 9:52 AM, in article , "Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"gary davis" wrote in message
...
On 6/10/04 8:11 AM, in article
,
"martin" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:47:47 GMT, gary davis

wrote:

On 6/8/04 11:05 PM, in article ,
"Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"Nick Apostolakis" wrote in message
...
Nick Apostolakis wrote:

i do not know any water analysis test about pesticide traces
in
water
but that is relevant with the type of the aquifer anyway so it
may
or
may not be very important.


by the way i saw just today a water analysis for an area near
my
own.
guess what. they found all the mainstream pollutants nitrates,
Ar,
pesticide traces and all the good stuff.

Please quote the concentrations found and compare them with the
legally limiting concentrations.

Franz, I quote from your message above..."legally limiting
concentrations"???? So, just poison our water a little bit and
that is OK?

The legal limit is set at a level that is not a poison.

That is what you are saying.
Certified organic farmers want zero, I repeat zero,
contamination of the
water.

Unless they intend to use distilled water that is impossible.

That is why they will not/ do not use chemicals harmful to the
environment.

All water has chemicals in it naturally, some harmful to people
some
not.

You say you are 80 years old, if you are, do you not remember
drinking
water from a stream. Would you not like to do that again? That is
what
certified organic farmers are striving to achieve.

perhaps these farmers should stop using copper sulphate mixed with
lime as a pesticide?

In other words, I suggest to use no chemicals. Period! Well,
except for
salt on your hard boiled eggs...

Eliminating chemicals is the aim of the Henry Doubleday Soil
Research
Association, but not that of organic farmers, organic farmers use
authorised chemicals.

See "Pesticides in organic farming"
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/pn58/pn58p6.htm




as i say above everything depends from the aquifer type. if it
is
under
pressure you may get away with it. if it is an open aquifer
then you
have a problem.

The water you dream of doesn't exist anywhere in Western Europe.
I recall that after Chernobyl Greek farmers were obliged to
plough
their tomato crops into the ground, because the tomatoes were
heavily
contaminated with radioactive fall out. I guess that the chemicals
with a long half life are still their.

Franz you can read the words but you're missing the music.... Some
people
don't want to hear 'the music' for different reasons. As for me, I
do what I
believe is the right thing. You do also, I presume...carry on "Ol'
timer"!
Gary

It is not clear to me what I said where and when which elicited that
response from you.
How about having a recount of the attribution marks, and then replying
to the correct person?

Franz


Franz
How much detail would you like? How much are you willing to pay for
further explanations? I explained "my point of view" free of charge. All I
have to say has been posted. Take it or leave it.
Either way is fine with me: the bugs and the future of agriculture,
backyard or farmers, will decide whether my ideas were right or wrong...
Gary
Fort Langley, BC
Canada

To reply please remove...yoursocks...

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:22:25 GMT, gary davis
wrote:

Franz you can read the words but you're missing the music.... Some
people
don't want to hear 'the music' for different reasons. As for me, I
do what I
believe is the right thing. You do also, I presume...carry on "Ol'
timer"!
Gary

It is not clear to me what I said where and when which elicited that
response from you.
How about having a recount of the attribution marks, and then replying
to the correct person?

Franz


Franz
How much detail would you like? How much are you willing to pay for
further explanations?

Franz's point is that you partially quoted what I posted and
attributed it to Franz.

I explained "my point of view" free of charge. All I
have to say has been posted. Take it or leave it.

My bill is in the post ;-)
--
Martin