hello

i was wondering about the answer to a question and i would like to hear
your opinion.


lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a pesticide.
the pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non toxic
elements.

i think that it is a common case among the various pesticides and
fungucides.

if i pick up a vegetable 2 days before the pesticide deadline finishes
and store it in a refigerator is the pesticide going to dissolve as if
the vegetable was on the plant?

the point of my question is that i do not know what exactly the term
degrade means for the various agro chemicals.

it could mean that it is unstable anyway and disolves by its own no
matter where the vegetable is stored

or it could mean that it is dissolved by some biological or physical
factors (e.g heat or some bacteria) etc

what is your opinion and practice about this?

thank you
--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 22:15:27 +0300, Nick Apostolakis
wrote:

hello

i was wondering about the answer to a question and i would like to hear
your opinion.


lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a pesticide.
the pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non toxic
elements.

i think that it is a common case among the various pesticides and
fungucides.

if i pick up a vegetable 2 days before the pesticide deadline finishes
and store it in a refigerator is the pesticide going to dissolve as if
the vegetable was on the plant?

the point of my question is that i do not know what exactly the term
degrade means for the various agro chemicals.

it could mean that it is unstable anyway and disolves by its own no
matter where the vegetable is stored

or it could mean that it is dissolved by some biological or physical
factors (e.g heat or some bacteria) etc

what is your opinion and practice about this?


You spray pesticides on your crop, you eat pesticides. Don't believe
the bullshit.

You are what you eat.




..







************************************************** ***********************************
Yes, madam, I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
- Sir Winston Churchill


The Eagle Has Landed.


/T /I
/ |/ | .-~/
T\ Y I |/ / _
/T | \I | I Y.-~/
I l /I T\ | | l | T /
T\ | \ Y l /T | \I l \ ` l Y
__ | \l \l \I l __l l \ ` _. |
\ ~-l `\ `\ \ \\ ~\ \ `. .-~ |
\ ~-. "-. ` \ ^._ ^. "-. / \ |
.--~-._ ~- ` _ ~-_.-"-." ._ /._ ." ./
--. ~-. ._ ~-" "\\ 7 7 ]
^.___~"--._ ~-{ .-~ . `\ Y . / |
__ ~"-. ~ /_/ \ \I Y : |
^-.__ ~(_/ \ ._: | l______
^--.,___.-~" /_/ ! `-.~"--l_ / ~"-.
(_/ . ~( /' "~"--,Y -=b-. _)
(_/ . \ : / l c"~o \
\ / `. . .^ \_.-~"~--. )
(_/ . ` / / ! )/
/ / _. '. .': / '
~(_/ . / _ ` .-_
/_/ . ' .-~" `. / \ \ ,z=.
~( / ' : | K "-.~-.______//
"-,. l I/ \_ __{---._(==.
//( \ ~"~" //
/' /\ \ \ ,v=. ((
.^. / /\ " }__ //===- ` Roy!/ASC
/ / ' ' "-.,__ {---(==-
.^ ' : T ~" ll
/ . . . : | :! \\
(_/ / | | j-" ~^


So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..


GOOD SIGS wanted. APPLY WITHIN.






Please Note: I am not the forger-troll Derek Moody who posts with



and who continues to stalk me, ensuring he is at the top of my hit list
and who also published child porn websites and kinky sex outlets in the UK, not to mention deviant holidays.


You've not heard of the Geneva Convention, then?

Our enemies sure haven't.


PLEASE NOTE.
We no longer do fishing trips/holidays any more, it has been deemed horrendously cruel
and we no longer participate.
We do still arrange boat charter for dolphin watching and diving.

In article ,
Nick Apostolakis wrote:

lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a pesticide.
the pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non toxic
elements.

Well, it SAYS that.

i think that it is a common case among the various pesticides and
fungucides.

It is a common CLAIM.

if i pick up a vegetable 2 days before the pesticide deadline finishes
and store it in a refigerator is the pesticide going to dissolve as if
the vegetable was on the plant?

the point of my question is that i do not know what exactly the term
degrade means for the various agro chemicals.

They vary. In practice, the 15 days is not a hard deadline, but
when the concentration will have dropped to a 'safe' level. Also,
the breakdown products are not always as harmless as is made out.
The conditions will make a considerable difference to the breakdown
rate, but what those conditions are I don't know (except that it
will vary, and often involves bacteria).

None of the pesticides that you can buy for domestic use are
seriously toxic to humans, nor are their breakdown products, so it
isn't a major matter. But, if you are worried about such things,
use only genuinely harmless (to humans) pesticides.

Soft soap (or detergent) is one such, and pyrethrum is close. It
is the best thing for aphids on beans, for example. You can spray
the day you pick. Simple copper salts are OK, too, provided that
you wash them off to ensure that you eat only a small amount (the
odd milligram at most). Sulphur is safe, too. And, though it is
not an approved pesticide, bleach is also safe.

In all cases, getting them in your eyes or in a concentrated form
on other mucous membranes or sensitive skin is a Bad Idea. But
eating them diluted is not a problem.

Pete the Troll is probably inedible, anyway, so ignore him.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Derek Moody" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 22:15:27 +0300, Nick Apostolakis
wrote:

hello

i was wondering about the answer to a question and i would like to hear
your opinion.


lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a pesticide.
the pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non toxic
elements.

i think that it is a common case among the various pesticides and
fungucides.

if i pick up a vegetable 2 days before the pesticide deadline finishes
and store it in a refigerator is the pesticide going to dissolve as if
the vegetable was on the plant?

the point of my question is that i do not know what exactly the term
degrade means for the various agro chemicals.

it could mean that it is unstable anyway and disolves by its own no
matter where the vegetable is stored

or it could mean that it is dissolved by some biological or physical
factors (e.g heat or some bacteria) etc

what is your opinion and practice about this?


You spray pesticides on your crop, you eat pesticides. Don't believe
the bullshit.

You are what you eat.




Indeed. And many food plants contain a wide variety of natural pesticides
and hormone disruptors, selected over tens to hundreds of millions of years
of evolution to be harmful to insects *and* mammals at low doses,and which
testing has shown to be in many cases much more harmful than man-made
pesticides. For example, the active compund in lettuce is an order of
magnitude or more, carcinogenic than any pesticide allowed on the market
today.

So the factual answer to that above is, "you eat plants, you eat
pesticides". [Whether you spayed them or not].

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

In article ,
Tumbleweed wrote:

So the factual answer to that above is, "you eat plants, you eat
pesticides". [Whether you spayed them or not].

True. But which plants do YOU spay for eating? :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 3 Jun 2004 21:01:52 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Tumbleweed wrote:

So the factual answer to that above is, "you eat plants, you eat
pesticides". [Whether you spayed them or not].

True. But which plants do YOU spay for eating? :-)

Cat mint?

In article , Nick Apostolakis
writes
what is your opinion and practice about this?

In a lifetime of vegetable and fruit growing I have never used
manufactured chemical pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, insecticides
or fertilisers. There is no need to pollute food with such poisons in my
organic growing system. Their use is banned by law in production of food
to be sold to the public as organic.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Alan Gould wrote:
In article , Nick Apostolakis
writes

what is your opinion and practice about this?


In a lifetime of vegetable and fruit growing I have never used
manufactured chemical pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, insecticides
or fertilisers. There is no need to pollute food with such poisons in my
organic growing system. Their use is banned by law in production of food
to be sold to the public as organic.

well the original question was targeted more to the case study that you
buy a vegetable from the market.
could it be better to leave it for some days in the refrigerator to let
the pesticide levels to drop to a minimum?

in other words what are the degradation factors of a pesticide?
i found a link at the net http://www.stadiumturf.com/degradation.htm

that explains all i wanted.
the answer to my question about the refrigeration above is no...


btw it does not matter if you use or not pesticieds in your own garden
(of course it is better to not use them) it is possible that you can get
them through other agriculturla procuts as milk, meat etc.

so even if you do not use pesticides you could be eating pesticides all
the same.
--



--------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Apostolakis
e-mail:
Web Site: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nickapos
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 22:57:11 +0300, Nick Apostolakis
wrote:

Alan Gould wrote:
In article , Nick Apostolakis
writes

what is your opinion and practice about this?


In a lifetime of vegetable and fruit growing I have never used
manufactured chemical pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, insecticides
or fertilisers. There is no need to pollute food with such poisons in my
organic growing system. Their use is banned by law in production of food
to be sold to the public as organic.

well the original question was targeted more to the case study that you
buy a vegetable from the market.
could it be better to leave it for some days in the refrigerator to let
the pesticide levels to drop to a minimum?

in other words what are the degradation factors of a pesticide?
i found a link at the net http://www.stadiumturf.com/degradation.htm

that explains all i wanted.
the answer to my question about the refrigeration above is no...


btw it does not matter if you use or not pesticieds in your own garden

It does matter a great deal, to us, wildlife and habitat.

(of course it is better to not use them) it is possible that you can get
them through other agriculturla procuts as milk, meat etc.

so even if you do not use pesticides you could be eating pesticides all
the same.

Which is why it's wise to go organic and/or grow your own. Never
underestimate just how little the farmer, shop actually cares for it's
customers, they are constantly trying to cut corners and most people
are too stupid to see it.



Cheerio.
..







************************************************** ***********************************
Yes, madam, I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
- Sir Winston Churchill


The Eagle Has Landed.


/T /I
/ |/ | .-~/
T\ Y I |/ / _
/T | \I | I Y.-~/
I l /I T\ | | l | T /
T\ | \ Y l /T | \I l \ ` l Y
__ | \l \l \I l __l l \ ` _. |
\ ~-l `\ `\ \ \\ ~\ \ `. .-~ |
\ ~-. "-. ` \ ^._ ^. "-. / \ |
.--~-._ ~- ` _ ~-_.-"-." ._ /._ ." ./
--. ~-. ._ ~-" "\\ 7 7 ]
^.___~"--._ ~-{ .-~ . `\ Y . / |
__ ~"-. ~ /_/ \ \I Y : |
^-.__ ~(_/ \ ._: | l______
^--.,___.-~" /_/ ! `-.~"--l_ / ~"-.
(_/ . ~( /' "~"--,Y -=b-. _)
(_/ . \ : / l c"~o \
\ / `. . .^ \_.-~"~--. )
(_/ . ` / / ! )/
/ / _. '. .': / '
~(_/ . / _ ` .-_
/_/ . ' .-~" `. / \ \ ,z=.
~( / ' : | K "-.~-.______//
"-,. l I/ \_ __{---._(==.
//( \ ~"~" //
/' /\ \ \ ,v=. ((
.^. / /\ " }__ //===- ` Roy!/ASC
/ / ' ' "-.,__ {---(==-
.^ ' : T ~" ll
/ . . . : | :! \\
(_/ / | | j-" ~^


So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..


GOOD SIGS wanted. APPLY WITHIN.

You've not heard of the Geneva Convention, then?

Our enemies sure haven't.

".. Their use is banned by law in production of food
to be sold to the public as organic ......."

Sorry but this is not true.
"The term organic is defined by law, therefore all organic food production
and processing is governed by a strict set of rules"

"When you see a symbol or number you can be sure that the product complies
with the minimum government standards as set by UKROFS (UK Register of
Organic Food Standards)."

I would refer you to http://www.alotoforganics.co.uk/help/facts3.php


It's the public wanting perfect looking food that has no trace of pests of
any sort in it that has caused the constant use of pesticides in today's
food,

Personally I'd rather have local produce than so called "organic" produce
that is produced in southern Spain or Morocco and hauled all the way to the
UK by road causing the use of a great deal of fuel and the release of a
large amount of pollution.
--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

In article , Nick Apostolakis
writes
(of course it is better to not use them) it is possible that you can get
them through other agriculturla procuts as milk, meat etc.

so even if you do not use pesticides you could be eating pesticides all
the same.

Supplies of certified organic milk, dairy produce and meat, free of
pesticides etc. are available just as vegetables and fruit are.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article , David Hill david@abacus
nurseries.freeserve.co.uk writes
".. Their use is banned by law in production of food
to be sold to the public as organic ......."

Sorry but this is not true.
"The term organic is defined by law, therefore all organic food production
and processing is governed by a strict set of rules"

"When you see a symbol or number you can be sure that the product complies
with the minimum government standards as set by UKROFS (UK Register of
Organic Food Standards)."
Exactly. Which surely makes my statement above true?

I would refer you to http://www.alotoforganics.co.uk/help/facts3.php


It's the public wanting perfect looking food that has no trace of pests of
any sort in it that has caused the constant use of pesticides in today's
food,
That is true, but the public, the supermarkets, agri-business and Govt.
have begun to realise the hidden costs of over intensive production.
We are now post BSE, CJD etc, and a more realistic approach to food is
evolving. Organic production is a part of that, obesity is another.

Personally I'd rather have local produce than so called "organic" produce
that is produced in southern Spain or Morocco and hauled all the way to the
UK by road causing the use of a great deal of fuel and the release of a
large amount of pollution.
Of course you and most people would prefer that, but it does not change
the organic standards to which the food was produced. In the same way,
local non-organic produce is preferable to imported, just as fresh food
is preferable to stored, frozen or processed.

--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

On 6/3/04 12:15 PM, in article , "Nick
Apostolakis" wrote:

hello

i was wondering about the answer to a question and i would like to hear
your opinion.


lets say that we have a vegetable that is sprayed with a pesticide.
the pesticide says that after 15 days it gets degraded to non toxic
elements.

i think that it is a common case among the various pesticides and
fungucides.

if i pick up a vegetable 2 days before the pesticide deadline finishes
and store it in a refigerator is the pesticide going to dissolve as if
the vegetable was on the plant?

the point of my question is that i do not know what exactly the term
degrade means for the various agro chemicals.

it could mean that it is unstable anyway and disolves by its own no
matter where the vegetable is stored

or it could mean that it is dissolved by some biological or physical
factors (e.g heat or some bacteria) etc

what is your opinion and practice about this?

thank you
Wow, what a great question and a difficult one to answer! It's difficult
because most of us just don't know. AND most of us haven't even asked
ourselves that same question!
Because I can't answer your question directly, I wish I could, I'm going
to offer an alternative answer and an alternative solution:
MY Alternative Answer:
Wash all your vegetables before eating and before they go in the fridge
or put in a bowl on the counter top. This is not any guarantee that there
won't be traces of a pesticide, fungicide, etc. left on the produce,
unfortunately.
There are many different chemicals used for different vegetables and
fruits. The ones I can think of are oranges, bananas and potatoes that
relate to what I want to say.
Everyone, who cares about nutrition, knows that the most nutrients are
close to the skin of a vegetable or fruit. I can't say that I have ever
eaten a banana peel! (sprayed to turn it yellow) Or an orange peel! (sprayed
for a reason I can't remember) (Some recipes call for orange peel...oops!)
But, potato peels on a baked potato, yes. I enjoy the texture, the
crunchiness and knowing that 'that¹s where the nutrients are!
I have often wondered about sprays used on potatoes after they have been
harvested. Potatoes are sprayed with a chemical to stop them from
sprouting...to preserve them. I wonder just what will that spray do to me if
I eat the skin of a potato so sprayed....
My Alternative Solution:
Certified organic farmers are not allowed to use any of the above sprays
or pesticides, herbicides etc. on their fields. (Regulations vary from area
to area across the world). Certified organic farmers really put their
talents to test when pests appear. They have to find alternative ways to
combat them...they cannot use the fast and easy way of killing the bugs with
insecticides because they know that they are also killing the predators of
the same bugs.
If you have ever tried to plant and grow potatoes that you bought from a
grocery store you will know that they will not grow. They have been sprayed!
I recently went into a store and they had several different kinds of
potatoes. It was easy to find the certified organic ones...they were
sprouting! The sprayed ones 'looked' perfect! I bought the certified organic
ones...
In conclusion:
Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer. He is working his
tail off to preserve the predator insect by not using insecticides which in
turn means you don't have to worry about insecticides on your produce. And
you can eat the skin too!
That's the way it was and the way it should be.
Gary
Fort Langley BC
Canada

To reply please remove...yoursocks...

In article , gary davis
writes

Worried about sprays? And so you should. We all should. Eliminate the
doubt and support your local certified organic farmer.

That's just our problem! In the UK we don't have that many certified
organic growers, and a lot of our organic produce comes from spain and
further afield - so we may not get a personal dose of pesticide, but
we're contributing overall to global warming and vehicle emissions.

But if I were a lobbyist for the non-organic farming industry, the
amount of travel involved for organic produce is just what I would be
talking about loud and wide ... so .. I don't know. Perhaps the demand
for organic produce, at present being fulfilled by imported stuff, will
encourage more organic producers in this country and in the longer run
reduce the need for imports.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article ,
Alan Gould wrote:
In article , Nick Apostolakis
writes
(of course it is better to not use them) it is possible that you can get
them through other agriculturla procuts as milk, meat etc.

so even if you do not use pesticides you could be eating pesticides all
the same.

Supplies of certified organic milk, dairy produce and meat, free of
pesticides etc. are available just as vegetables and fruit are.

See someone else's posting about natural pesticides - I believe
that milk contains natural antibiotics, which is one reason that
pasteurised milk goes off far faster than fresh milk does.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.