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#31
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"Mike Lyle" wrote in message om... "Franz Heymann" wrote in message ... "Martin Brown" wrote in message ... [...] There are more cunning ways to measure humic acids. I don't doubt that. By the way, I don't like the catch-all term "humic acids". Well, now that we've disposed of the undoubted scam, in particular applications catch-all terms may have their uses. For example, the concentration of acidic humic compounds Yes, but what are "humic compounds"? in a water sample is of serious and proper interest, and most of the time no more specific term is needed -- in fact, listing the compounds out would often be a waste of space. I've just looked for another example, and at once found an on-line oil-industry glossary which suggests that, at least for one phase of that industry, the term's good enough for practical purposes: quote/humic acid 1. n. [Drilling Fluids] ID: 1986 Organic carboxylic acids of complex molecular structure (aromatic and phenolic) that comprise 10 to 90% of lignite. At least there we have an attempt at a definition, even if the definition is a catch-all sentence. Humic acids in lignite react with caustic ingredients (NaOH and KOH) in mud. The water solubility of lignite depends on its humic acid content. Decarboxylation of humic acid groups by hydrolysis in alkaline muds is a major source of carbonate and bicarbonate anions in water muds. /endquote You could afford to forget more about this than I shall ever have known, but it seems to me that even such ordinarily useful expressions as "fatty acids" or "amino-acids" could also be called "catch-all terms". Yes, I think you are right. {:-)) May we bring this diversion to an end by saying that humic acid is the variety of acids which give peat a low pH? (Deep breath.) Even deeper breath, Franz |
#32
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In message , Alan Gould
writes In article , Martin Brown writes Well yes, but what is 'goodness'? According to Organic(TM) scheme it is mainly about getting premium prices off the worried well for vastly overpriced and overpackaged Organic(TM) branded goods in supermarkets. After being sanctified by the acolytes of the Soil Association you can charge a massive premium. Often the Organic(TM) stuff is flown half way round the world using vastly more petrochemicals than it would require to grow it locally. I have no problem at all with minimum inputs agriculture (as opposed to modern intensive commercial farming) or local farmers markets, but Organic(TM) is founded primarily on marketing concerns rather than on real science. Well yes, but you still haven't defined 'goodness' in this context. Convincing the punters to pay up willingly for overpriced goods. Regards, -- Martin Brown |
#33
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In message , Franz Heymann
writes "Mike Lyle" wrote in message . com... "Franz Heymann" wrote in message ... "Martin Brown" wrote in message ... [...] There are more cunning ways to measure humic acids. I don't doubt that. By the way, I don't like the catch-all term "humic acids". Well, now that we've disposed of the undoubted scam, in particular applications catch-all terms may have their uses. For example, the concentration of acidic humic compounds Yes, but what are "humic compounds"? I can't tell here if you are being serious or have a genuine misunderstanding. It is in fact quite useful to categorise chemicals by their generic properties rather than give very long names for each and every compound in a naturally occurring and usually highly complex mixture. Not least because of all the specific stereo chemistry of natural materials. quote/humic acid 1. n. [Drilling Fluids] ID: 1986 Organic carboxylic acids of complex molecular structure (aromatic and phenolic) that comprise 10 to 90% of lignite. At least there we have an attempt at a definition, even if the definition is a catch-all sentence. The definition is simple enough. They are the acids that you get when plant material like humus decays in peat and lignite. You can smell some of their short chained aliphatic relatives in grass fermenting on the compost heap. Regards, -- Martin Brown |
#34
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"Martin Brown" wrote in message ... [snip] The definition is simple enough. They are the acids that you get when plant material like humus decays in peat and lignite. You can smell some of their short chained aliphatic relatives in grass fermenting on the compost heap. I am rather disappointed that you snipped context from my previous note without saying that you did so. Franz |
#35
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In article , Martin Brown
writes Well yes, but you still haven't defined 'goodness' in this context. Convincing the punters to pay up willingly for overpriced goods. There's a lot of that about, but I hadn't realised it was goodness. -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
#36
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In article , Janet Baraclough.
.. writes A device used by Alan Gould to distract attention from the imminent popping of his toy balloon, and divert the attention of the pinholder towards some other target considered by Alan to be deserving of a poke with a sharp instrument. ;-) -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
#37
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"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message ... The message from "Franz Heymann" contains these words: If you really want to learn something new, ask Janet about Permaculture! Janet, What is Permaculture? A device used by Alan Gould to distract attention from the imminent popping of his toy balloon, and divert the attention of the pinholder towards some other target considered by Alan to be deserving of a poke with a sharp instrument. Thanks. I think I'll drop out of this thread for now. Franz |
#38
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"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message ... The message from "Franz Heymann" contains these words: I am rather disappointed (snipped) There. Happy now? Much. Thanks {:-)) Franz |
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