On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:12:52 +0000, Martin Brown

If there is googling didn't find anything for me that I would trust.
Mostly US pill popping "health freak" sites offering extract of collard
greens pills (and fuelling my worst suspicions bilberry pills too).

I can't warn all urglers emphatically enough NOT to be sucked in by
these nuts. I have a friend in California who, throughout the 25+
years of our friendship, has always been in the grip of one form of
nutritional/dietary quackery or another.

Last time I saw him, his refrigerator held two cardboard boxes
containing something like 100 different "nutritional supplements"
peddled by the "Life Extension Foundation." He looked horrible: his
skin looked like it had been sprayed with plastic; and he admitted
that not yet 50 y.o. he had already had one small stroke.

What these nuts don't understand is that a statistical correlation
between consumption of food item A and frequency of disease B is no
guarantee that eating lots of A will keep you from getting B.

They also have a very simplistic attitude about the way the body
processes nutrients, believing that consumption of lots of
A-containing foodstuffs means you actually get more A into your
tissues. Coupled with this mal-belief is complete ignorance of the
powerful homeostatic mechanisms of the body, which resist changing
levels of nearly everything in body fluids.


It might be a good thing to eat fresh from the garden. Cabbage family
contain plenty of useful vitamins some of which may be beneficial for
AMD. But I am extremely sceptical of all US pseudo-medical sites that
are principally selling their expensive herbal extract pills.

By all means grow them and enjoy fresh fruit and vegetables. It is a far
better option than subsisting on junk food and popping vitamin pills.

Motion seconded.

I will repeat what I said in another reply in this thread: eat as wide
a variety of foodstuffs as you can. For example, terpenes are not
known to be a vital nutrient, but are believed to have some beneficial
effects. Eaten in moderation, you *may* benefit from them. Virtually
the only foodstuffs containing them are citrus peel and cherries.

So someone watching their diet will eat the lemon slice that
accompanies their gin-and-vermouth, and will be pleased with a slice
of cherry pie once in a while.

But not a diet consisting exclusively of citrus peel and cherries!


We had an interesting newspaper story here a few years ago about an
old girl who was admitted to hospital with profound liver failure. On
investigation, it turned out that she was taking something like 25
different "nutritional supplements", and the combination was
hepatotoxic. The newspaper article had an interview with her and she
simply didn't see the error in her thinking: "I take magic herb X so I
won't get disease/ailment Y, herb B so I won't get Q, (etc)."

I wanted to go grab her, stick her nose out the window, and say "See
all those fine folks strolling about? They don't take X and they don't
have Y; they don't take B and they don't have Q."

Beware the silver bullet approach to these matters: it is dangerous to
your health.

Also beware thinking "if a little is good, a lot is way better", as
wel as "if a lot is bad, so is a little." The classic example is
dietary fluoride. In miniscule quantities added to drinking water, it
makes caries almost unheard-of and may strengthen the bones, reducing
the risk of osteoporosis in old age. In larger quantities, it's a very
effective rat (and human) poison.

Enough said.

ObGardening: in flower: hamamelis, Eranthis hyemalis (three color
forms), Vibrnum fragans white-flowered, Lonicera standishii or x
purpusii, some small galanthus. Thanks to very wet weather and high
humidity, the scent of the hamamelises carries on the air very well at
night.


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, BC, Canada
to send email, change atlantic to pacific
and invalid to net

In article ,
Rodger Whitlock wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:12:52 +0000, Martin Brown

If there is googling didn't find anything for me that I would trust.
Mostly US pill popping "health freak" sites offering extract of collard
greens pills (and fuelling my worst suspicions bilberry pills too).

I can't warn all urglers emphatically enough NOT to be sucked in by
these nuts. I have a friend in California who, throughout the 25+
years of our friendship, has always been in the grip of one form of
nutritional/dietary quackery or another.

Very true. However, if you are going in for a gimmick, overdosing
on dark green brassicas is the one to go for. I don't believe that
it is possible to do yourself significant harm - though you may
emanate a continuous sulphurous smell through the back passage - and
any plausible amount will almost certainly be good for you.

In this context, my guess is that the UK-adapted equivalent of
collards is the coarse kale that many of us remember from our
childhoods. Nutritionally, they are probably almost identical.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:55:12 +0100, wrote:

Did you try googling, Pam?

I Googled for ages yesterday and all I got was recipes. NO SEED

Pam in Bristol
-----------------------------------
My family and locals have always used "Collard" to describe any
variety of cabbage not hearting. Especially spring greens. The OED agrees
but does suggest it is dialect in use. I have certainly heard the word used
in the old Covent Garden.
Best Wishes Brian

On 20 Jan 2005 18:24:59 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Rodger Whitlock wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:12:52 +0000, Martin Brown

If there is googling didn't find anything for me that I would trust.
Mostly US pill popping "health freak" sites offering extract of collard
greens pills (and fuelling my worst suspicions bilberry pills too).

I can't warn all urglers emphatically enough NOT to be sucked in by
these nuts. I have a friend in California who, throughout the 25+
years of our friendship, has always been in the grip of one form of
nutritional/dietary quackery or another.

Very true. However, if you are going in for a gimmick, overdosing
on dark green brassicas is the one to go for. I don't believe that
it is possible to do yourself significant harm - though you may
emanate a continuous sulphurous smell through the back passage - and
any plausible amount will almost certainly be good for you.

In this context, my guess is that the UK-adapted equivalent of
collards is the coarse kale that many of us remember from our
childhoods. Nutritionally, they are probably almost identical.


Quite so. I've come to the conclusion that Collards and Spring Greens
are near-enough the same, which is all I wanted to know. As to
supplements, I didn't mention them!


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

lid (Rodger Whitlock) wrote:

But I can't tell you one thing about their culture other than to emit
a suspicion that they may be a warm-weather crop.

They're not a quick crop, but don't need terribly warm weather. I live in
the northeastern (former) colonies, and collards crop nicely for me,
producing an abundance of leaves by the first frosts in (hopefully) late
September. Which is a good thing, because they're much nicer after a
couple of freezes, and stand up to longish cooking. Just the thing to
parboil and freeze. They're thought of as "soul food" i.e., southern
black, but as somebody else said, really southern rural poor.
.....erm... excuse me, low income non-urban folk.

Tevye: "Lord, I realize there's no shame in being poor.

It's no great honor either!"


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

In article , Chris Hogg
writes

Quite so. I've come to the conclusion that Collards and Spring Greens
are near-enough the same, which is all I wanted to know. As to
supplements, I didn't mention them!

My understanding of collards in UK at least is that they are offshoots
growing from a range of Brassica plants. They are a sort of 'second
helping'. A good example is when an ordinary cabbage is cut, the stem is
left in and florets of collards will grow on it, providing fresh young
greens at a useful time. New growths can also appear on sprout stems
after the sprouts and the tops have been taken. I don't recall ever
seeing seed of collards on sale, but I believe that is done in USA.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Chris Hogg
writes

Quite so. I've come to the conclusion that Collards and Spring Greens
are near-enough the same, which is all I wanted to know. As to
supplements, I didn't mention them!

My understanding of collards in UK at least is that they are offshoots
growing from a range of Brassica plants. They are a sort of 'second
helping'. A good example is when an ordinary cabbage is cut, the stem is
left in and florets of collards will grow on it, providing fresh young
greens at a useful time. New growths can also appear on sprout stems
after the sprouts and the tops have been taken. I don't recall ever
seeing seed of collards on sale, but I believe that is done in USA.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

A year or so ago I found an American reference to collard greens and that
they were roughly the same as spring greens or kale. You comment about new
growth on sprout stems reminds me that my uncle used to make a cross on the
top of cabbage stems when he harvested it. Presumably 'greens' developed
around the wound but I don't remember this.

John Flax

Alan Gould wrote:

In article , Chris Hogg
writes

Quite so. I've come to the conclusion that Collards and Spring Greens
are near-enough the same, which is all I wanted to know. As to
supplements, I didn't mention them!


My understanding of collards in UK at least is that they are offshoots
growing from a range of Brassica plants. They are a sort of 'second
helping'. A good example is when an ordinary cabbage is cut, the stem is
left in and florets of collards will grow on it, providing fresh young
greens at a useful time. New growths can also appear on sprout stems
after the sprouts and the tops have been taken. I don't recall ever
seeing seed of collards on sale, but I believe that is done in USA.

Collard has a specific meaning in the US - it seems to be a rather
primitive crude leaved bitter early domesticated cabbage without a heart.

The brassicas are a pretty funny family since lots of different
vegetables belong to the same species Brassica Oleracea as subspecies or
varieties. And you can make all sorts of crosses between them.

Nice summary is at:
http://www.fastplants.org/pdf/genetics/around_world.pdf

Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:
(Rodger Whitlock) wrote:

But I can't tell you one thing about their culture other than to emit
a suspicion that they may be a warm-weather crop.

They're not a quick crop, but don't need terribly warm weather. I live in
the northeastern (former) colonies, and collards crop nicely for me,
producing an abundance of leaves by the first frosts in (hopefully) late
September. Which is a good thing, because they're much nicer after a
couple of freezes, and stand up to longish cooking. Just the thing to
parboil and freeze. They're thought of as "soul food" i.e., southern
black, but as somebody else said, really southern rural poor.
....erm... excuse me, low income non-urban folk.

I.e. exactly the same as the coarser kales grown in this country,
which nowadays are used almost entirely as cattle food. Having looked
up in a book or two, I think that USA collards and UK kale (not curly)
are simply variants of the same subspecies or variety.

I like them cooked with stock, but absolutely LOATHED them plain boiled.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:
(Rodger Whitlock) wrote:

But I can't tell you one thing about their culture other than to emit
a suspicion that they may be a warm-weather crop.

They're not a quick crop, but don't need terribly warm weather. I live
in
the northeastern (former) colonies, and collards crop nicely for me,
producing an abundance of leaves by the first frosts in (hopefully) late
September. Which is a good thing, because they're much nicer after a
couple of freezes, and stand up to longish cooking. Just the thing to
parboil and freeze. They're thought of as "soul food" i.e., southern
black, but as somebody else said, really southern rural poor.
....erm... excuse me, low income non-urban folk.

I.e. exactly the same as the coarser kales grown in this country,
which nowadays are used almost entirely as cattle food. Having looked
up in a book or two, I think that USA collards and UK kale (not curly)
are simply variants of the same subspecies or variety.

I like them cooked with stock, but absolutely LOATHED them plain boiled.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Best slow boiled with a ham hock or trotters.

In message , Janet Baraclough
writes
Just bought my first bunch of spring-greens of the season today..I
love those so much I could happily eat the whole bag on its own at a
sitting ( boiled or steamed until bright green/just tender, strained,
turned with pepper, nutmeg and a dod of butter....great with
bacon....mmmmmmmmmmm).

Perfick! Especially the pepper - oh and the bacon - and, well, the
nutmeg as well ...

--
Klara, Gatwick basin

Klara wrote:
In message , Janet
Baraclough
writes
Just bought my first bunch of spring-greens of the season today..I
love those so much I could happily eat the whole bag on its own at
a
sitting ( boiled or steamed until bright green/just tender,
strained, turned with pepper, nutmeg and a dod of butter....great
with bacon....mmmmmmmmmmm).

Perfick! Especially the pepper - oh and the bacon - and, well, the
nutmeg as well ...

Stir-fried with some shreds of onion, ginger, and chilli.

Mike.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:26:43 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I.e. exactly the same as the coarser kales grown in this country,
which nowadays are used almost entirely as cattle food. Having looked
up in a book or two, I think that USA collards and UK kale (not curly)
are simply variants of the same subspecies or variety.

I like them cooked with stock, but absolutely LOATHED them plain boiled.

I find curly kale very coarse and bitter, but the variety of kale
called cavolo de nero is delicious when plain boiled. If Pam hasn't
tried that one, it's easily available in the UK and attractive in the
garden too.

Just bought my first bunch of spring-greens of the season today..I
love those so much I could happily eat the whole bag on its own at a
sitting ( boiled or steamed until bright green/just tender, strained,
turned with pepper, nutmeg and a dod of butter....great with
bacon....mmmmmmmmmmm).

Janet

Yes Janet, I do grow Cavolo Nero and enjoy it.
I also bought spring greens today (organic) and enjoyed it briefly
cooked in a little oil and a drop of water. I like the sound of the
added ginger and maybe a touch of chilli, Mike!
I'm coming to the conclusion along with others that collards are much
the same as our spring greens, but as I think I have found a seed-
supplier in US I'll give theirs a try and compare. Thanks Jim, I'll
let you know if I can't get them. Thanks


Pam in Bristol

After much searching I have found a way of obtaining seeds of collards
"Georgia Southern Collards". I have ordered them from....
http://www.seedfest.co.uk/
I emailed them as they didn't list collards, and they sent me a
"direct shopping cart link". The seeds are 85p and shipping is FREE
though it says the'll be shipped by AIR.
IF anyone wants to order, let me know and I'll email you the direct
shoppingcart link. They seem very obliging.

Pam in Bristol

PS
It's pamdotmoore not mooredotpam if you want to email me.

Pam in Bristol