"Douglas" wrote in message
news

Miss Perspicacia Tick Wrote:
Richard Brooks wrote
Which brings me to another point, I may possibly be the youngest
posting
here - not that it bothers me, why should gardening - and the
appreciation
for the natural world that accompanies it - be the preserve of the
more
mature?

****
I know, I'm 22 and love nothing better than to be out and about,
going
across hillsides or be in the undergrowth looking for insects and
other
associated things.
****

If I could afford it, and my body would allow, I'd love to move to
the Orkneys

With me so far I have whittled it down the Assynt area,
Ardnamurchan,
or one of the Hebrides, like Harris - providing you can tolerate
the
divebombing Terns and that it can get a bit grim at times,
particularly
in the winter ;-)
It takes a particular type of person.
At least Harris is too windy for midges though, unlike the other
two
(due the wind, there are hardly any trees, and your hair usually
isn't
on purpose!)

I have only ever been to the 'Orkneys for a day, so cannot coment
fuly.

Problem is staying finacially ok once you are there, so yeah, you
probably would have to be self sufficient to some degree at least.

If I had the money I'd probably buy the Colonsay hotel (I have
great
memories of that place).

****
- and it sure as Hades beats living under the Heathrow
(and possibly Gatwick) flight path!

****
At least you would have had Concorde to look at though.
I would have loved to see that beautiful bird more (trying to stay
vainly on topic).

Anyway, I thougth you would get used to the noise??

Douglas, any thread to which you contribute becomes quite
unintelligible.
Please, please learn what to do about handling attribution marks "
" properly.

Franz

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from (Neil Jones) contains these words:

However, what do the scientific data say? Well, there is
apparently
only one set of official statistics available. These official
Government statistics were published in the official State
Veterinary
Journal.
Here they a (snip).

The SVJ is produced for DEFRA, I think?

More recent research has been carried out at Liverpool University
animal hospital, and by the British Equine Veterinary Association,
both
suggesting a much higher incidence than the figures you quoted: see

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/co...gwort_appr.pdf

where DEFRA says

. "Whilst it is unsatisfactory not to have more
accurate data on the number of animal deaths, there is no dispute
that
ragwort poisoning does present a serious health risk to horses and
livestock,
and may be a common cause of death."

Which is presumably why the Ragwort Control Act was brought into
force
one year ago?

But it is not the first time that a government has acted on dubious
information!

I had a discussion with a vet who held the 'subjective' opinion that
ragwort was the easy excuse for bad equine management. He claimed he
had not seen a case of liver damage which could solely be attributed
to ragwort poisoning. He had seen cases (plural) where nibbling of
creosoted stabling and rails, had proved fatal. And he also reeled off
a list of other plants which would prove just as dangerous (including
bracken, deadly nightshade, hemlock, yew, privet - these were just the
'common sense' ones that I can remember). And let's not forget mouldy
hay and too rich feeding leading to laminitis which can also prove
fatal.

Ragwort is just the scapegoat.

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 30.12.2004

[quote=Richard Brooks]


Flanders! Get out of the school garden.

I knew there was something not right-diddly-ight about him.


It's interesting how some young people take to gardening (or not)
independent of their parents. QUOTE]


A Ned is the Glasgow name for what I beleive you would call a Kev or a townie.
You know, tracksuit, skip cap set at a ridiculous angle that defies gravity, and seems to be hellbent on ruining everything nice and being nasty to innocent passers by.

As for what you say about some people taking to things regardless to others, I'm a bit like that and railways.

[quote=Kay
Thanks for laying out your post nicely, snipping all but the relevant
bits and placing your responses just below the bit you were replying to.
snip.

[/QUOTE]


Yes, ok, I'll see to that.

I'm just a bit slow, so it takes me ages to work these things out ;-)

In article , Douglas Douglas.1k
writes

Kay
Thanks for laying out your post nicely, snipping all but the relevant
bits and placing your responses just below the bit you were replying to.
snip.

I detect sarcasm in response to a perfectly polite post. Interesting, in
that you replied politely (as below) to someone else making exactly the
same point.

Had I posted my post *after* yours, I can understand you being a bit
miffed. But I didn't - I posted mine, not just before yours, but before
the post your replied to reached the newsgroup.


[/QUOTE Wrote:



Yes, ok, I'll see to that.

I'm just a bit slow, so it takes me ages to work these things out
;-)


--
Douglas

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

ned wrote:
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from (Neil Jones) contains these words:

However, what do the scientific data say? Well, there is
apparently
only one set of official statistics available. These official
Government statistics were published in the official State
Veterinary Journal.
Here they a (snip).

The SVJ is produced for DEFRA, I think?

More recent research has been carried out at Liverpool
University
animal hospital, and by the British Equine Veterinary Association,
both suggesting a much higher incidence than the figures you
quoted:
see

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/co...gwort_appr.pdf

where DEFRA says

. "Whilst it is unsatisfactory not to have more
accurate data on the number of animal deaths, there is no dispute
that ragwort poisoning does present a serious health risk to
horses
and livestock, and may be a common cause of death."

Which is presumably why the Ragwort Control Act was brought into
force one year ago?

But it is not the first time that a government has acted on dubious
information!

I had a discussion with a vet who held the 'subjective' opinion
that
ragwort was the easy excuse for bad equine management. He claimed
he
had not seen a case of liver damage which could solely be
attributed
to ragwort poisoning. He had seen cases (plural) where nibbling of
creosoted stabling and rails, had proved fatal. And he also reeled
off
a list of other plants which would prove just as dangerous
(including
bracken, deadly nightshade, hemlock, yew, privet - these were just
the
'common sense' ones that I can remember). And let's not forget
mouldy
hay and too rich feeding leading to laminitis which can also prove
fatal.

Ragwort is just the scapegoat.

That does seem to be sensible. Stock won't generally eat it if
there's anything else, though hay and silage is a different matter.
But since it kills by causing cirrhosis of the liver, autopsy can't
establish for certain that ragwort was or was not the cause.
Self-sufficiencers should go to considerable trouble to make sure the
seeds don't get processed with cereals, whether they're for animal or
human consumption. The thing should be knocked out as far as
feasible, even if only as a precaution: I don't think any ragwort
species is endangered.

Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
ned wrote:

snip

I had a discussion with a vet who held the 'subjective' opinion
that
ragwort was the easy excuse for bad equine management. He claimed
he
had not seen a case of liver damage which could solely be
attributed
to ragwort poisoning. He had seen cases (plural) where nibbling of
creosoted stabling and rails, had proved fatal. And he also reeled
off
a list of other plants which would prove just as dangerous
(including
bracken, deadly nightshade, hemlock, yew, privet - these were just
the
'common sense' ones that I can remember). And let's not forget
mouldy
hay and too rich feeding leading to laminitis which can also prove
fatal.

Ragwort is just the scapegoat.

That does seem to be sensible. Stock won't generally eat it if
there's anything else, though hay and silage is a different matter.
But since it kills by causing cirrhosis of the liver, autopsy can't
establish for certain that ragwort was or was not the cause.

I understand that the toxin accrues within the body over a
considerable period of time. It is not just one contaminated feed that
causes the problem. Is there not a test which could identify the
specific accumulated toxin?

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 30.12.2004

ned wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
ned wrote:

snip

I had a discussion with a vet who held the 'subjective' opinion
that
ragwort was the easy excuse for bad equine management. He claimed
he
had not seen a case of liver damage which could solely be
attributed
to ragwort poisoning. He had seen cases (plural) where nibbling
of
creosoted stabling and rails, had proved fatal. And he also
reeled
off a list of other plants which would prove just as dangerous
(including bracken, deadly nightshade, hemlock, yew, privet -
these
were just the 'common sense' ones that I can remember). And let's
not forget mouldy hay and too rich feeding leading to laminitis
which can also prove fatal.

Ragwort is just the scapegoat.

That does seem to be sensible. Stock won't generally eat it if
there's anything else, though hay and silage is a different
matter.
But since it kills by causing cirrhosis of the liver, autopsy
can't
establish for certain that ragwort was or was not the cause.

I understand that the toxin accrues within the body over a
considerable period of time. It is not just one contaminated feed
that
causes the problem. Is there not a test which could identify the
specific accumulated toxin?

Apparently not: by the time the cirrhosis is fatal, its cause or
causes will have been excreted. (I don't think the body is often
_able_ to retain toxins for long, since they are generally
water-soluble.) My book may be out of date, of course: it's the 1978
impression of the MAFF _British Poisonous Plants_. It does, however,
mention a 1963 study in which microscopic examination produced some
distinctive cytological evidence: I don't know what happened -- and I
might not understand it if I did know!

Mike.

"Douglas" wrote in message
news

Richard Brooks Wrote:



Flanders! Get out of the school garden.

I knew there was something not right-diddly-ight about him.


It's interesting how some young people take to gardening (or not)
independent of their parents. QUOTE]


A Ned is the Glasgow name for what I beleive you would call a Kev
or a
townie.
You know, tracksuit, skip cap set at a ridiculous angle that
defies
gravity, and seems to be hellbent on ruining everything nice and
being
nasty to innocent passers by.

As for what you say about some people taking to things regardless
to
others, I'm a bit like that and railways.

Accxording to the attribution marks, all the lines below the one which
said
" Richard Brooks Wrote:"
was written by Richard.
If you did not have anything to say. why did you write in at all?

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:
"Douglas" wrote in message
news

Richard Brooks Wrote:



Flanders! Get out of the school garden.

I knew there was something not right-diddly-ight about him.


It's interesting how some young people take to gardening (or not)
independent of their parents. QUOTE]


A Ned is the Glasgow name for what I beleive you would call a Kev
or a townie.
You know, tracksuit, skip cap set at a ridiculous angle that defies
gravity, and seems to be hellbent on ruining everything nice and
being nasty to innocent passers by.

As for what you say about some people taking to things regardless to
others, I'm a bit like that and railways.

Accxording to the attribution marks, all the lines below the one which
said
" Richard Brooks Wrote:"
was written by Richard.
If you did not have anything to say. why did you write in at all?

Franz


This whole thread has been chopped without the Usenet guidelines suggested
[snip] in the place of snippage. I do know what OE has problems with
formatting when a reply is changied from HTML which is not a Usenet standard
to ASCII which is.

Nevertheless this thread is broke so don't fix if and move on.

Richard.

[quote=Kay
I detect sarcasm in response to a perfectly polite post. Interesting, in
that you replied politely (as below) to someone else making exactly the
same point.

[/QUOTE]


Err, no, no sarcasm there, I am just genuinely slow at times.

Accxording to the attribution marks, all the lines below the one which
said
" Richard Brooks Wrote:"
was written by Richard.
If you did not have anything to say. why did you write in at all?

Franz[/quote]


GROAN!

I was replying after the end of his message, indicated by the 'Quote]'.

Now, I apreciate that I have a problem with organising things, but with all due respect, is it really THAT hard to work out??

I am genuinely slow and cannot organise things properly due to various problems I had when I was a baby. There are some other problems too, including the fact that I cannot easily start things (and no, 'm not being lazy, it is a true problem) or then finish them.

I'll try my best to sort myself out on here, ok?

I am not being Sarcastic, I am not trying to annoy anyone, I do NOT reply without saying something, and I am not trying to be rude to anyone in this message.


Sorry, but I just thought you ought to know to at least give you an understanding.

In article , Douglas Douglas.1k
writes


Sorry, but I just thought you ought to know to at least give you an
understanding.


OK, fair enough. And I was not trying to be unfriendly, merely to
suggest how to make your posts more easily understandable, and I think
the same goes for other posters too. Welcome to urg!

Bear in mind that although you are using gardenbanter, uk.rec.gardening
is not part of gardenbanter, but a newsgroup. People who subscribe to
newgsroups are very often reading 100 or more posts in a sitting, and
rely on being able to scan down and identify new material very quickly.
And that's why we've had difficulty.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

jane wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:16:51 -0000, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
wrote:

[heavy snippage]

jane wakes up um, can't really help. I'm a transplanted Derbyshire
girl so have no clue about Bucks schools!

~My grandfather (89) 'teaches'
~horticulture and 'nature appreciation' at Little Waltham C of E
Combined and ~was responsible for their wildlife garden. He also
claims that he is ~singularly responsible (going OT again!) for the
reintroduction of the ~Cinnabar and 5 and 6 Spot Burnett moths to
Essex (and we need more of them - ~a friend of my sister's lost her
best pony last year to ragwort poisoning). ~Cinnabar and Burnet(t)s
feed exclusively on the noxious weed (of course the ~ragwort's toxins
are what make the caterpillars poisonous) but then he has ~always
been prone to hyperbole. ~
~Actually, I tell a lie, I think my old school has one, set up by the
last ~remaining nun.

I wish some of the local schools would take on an allotment plot, to
teach the kids how to grow stuff, and also respect for the community.
Hopefully to prevent some of them trashing plots when they hit their
teens... sadly I think the state nannies would prevent them using
tools as they might be dangerous and the national curriculum wouldn't
have a picosecond for such activities.

That's actually a brilliant idea! With some places (like half of the Elder
Stubbs allotment beyond our garden) once the houses go up it's much too late
although the other half is part of the horticultural training section for
the "Care in the Community" people, also a source for vegetable and flower
sales so that's a good thing.

Why not have a chat with the local council and work with one school at
first. They'd probably need an adult to go with them as smoking in the shed
should come later in life. It'd be a great change for them and they
wouldn't have to look after a pond and they'd only see it as a skive until
they realise too late that they have to dig.


(cynical aside: wonder when they'll ban seaside spades?)

This would include digging in case of cave-in's and the child being too
mentally tormented to want to go back. Also, competitive activities almost
being outlawed, trying to work against the incoming tide wouldn't be allowed
as the child will always lose.


I haven't been up to mine in over a week, so don't know if it survived
half term without damage...

If it's anything like that tv series (IIRC) entitled "the village" then it's
jealous adults who you should be worried about.

Richard.