I know this is a gardening group, and I am not off topic, honest!.

I have a wren and a wagtail attacking the moss between flags. If only they
removed it all I would be very happy, however I suspect they are really
going after the insects not the moss.

My question is, shortly I will want to clean the moss off, I normally use
sodium chlorate, will this harm the birds? If so what product can I safely
use.
TIA
John T

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In article , John Towill
writes
I know this is a gardening group, and I am not off topic, honest!.

I have a wren and a wagtail attacking the moss between flags. If only they
removed it all I would be very happy, however I suspect they are really
going after the insects not the moss.

I'm sure they are. Both are invertebrate feeders.

My question is, shortly I will want to clean the moss off, I normally use
sodium chlorate, will this harm the birds? If so what product can I safely
use.

I don't think it will harm them if they were to pick up a small amount
though there is evidence that long-term exposure can lead to infertility
and eggshell-thinning. And as killing the moss will remove the home of
the insects they are seeking, they should soon lose interest. If you are
concerned, though, is there some way you can either cover the area you
treat or erect some bird scares (e.g. CDs strung from poles) just while
the sodium chlorate takes effect and remains on the surface?

--
Malcolm

In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

"John wrote in message ...
I know this is a gardening group, and I am not off topic, honest!.

I have a wren and a wagtail attacking the moss between flags. If only
they
removed it all I would be very happy, however I suspect they are really
going after the insects not the moss.

Not so sure about that, the local Wren that lives in our Ivy normally
removes a lot of Sphagnum moss from my pots of Pleiones about now (I've seen
it fly off with it) and I've always assumed it was for nest building, anyone
confirm that?

Could well be, though perhaps it is a little early, but in any case it
won't be eating it, so I don't think any harm will come from dosing it
with Sodium chlorate.

--
Malcolm

in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 5/2/03 6:14 pm:


In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

"John wrote in message ...
I know this is a gardening group, and I am not off topic, honest!.

I have a wren and a wagtail attacking the moss between flags. If only
they
removed it all I would be very happy, however I suspect they are really
going after the insects not the moss.

Not so sure about that, the local Wren that lives in our Ivy normally
removes a lot of Sphagnum moss from my pots of Pleiones about now (I've seen
it fly off with it) and I've always assumed it was for nest building, anyone
confirm that?

Could well be, though perhaps it is a little early, but in any case it
won't be eating it, so I don't think any harm will come from dosing it
with Sodium chlorate.

The birds pinch bits of sphagnum moss from all our hanging baskets for nest
building. We rather welcome it. ;-) Well, I do, Matthew curses a bit and
plugs the hole. ;-) In one glasshouse where a blackbird nests every year,
we set out a box with 'bits' in it that we think she'll like, moss included.
And when I clean out our hairbrushes, I always throw the gleanings out of
the window for birds to pick up and use.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

In article ,
says...

In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

"John wrote in message ...
I know this is a gardening group, and I am not off topic, honest!.

I have a wren and a wagtail attacking the moss between flags. If only
they
removed it all I would be very happy, however I suspect they are really
going after the insects not the moss.

Not so sure about that, the local Wren that lives in our Ivy normally
removes a lot of Sphagnum moss from my pots of Pleiones about now (I've seen
it fly off with it) and I've always assumed it was for nest building, anyone
confirm that?

Could well be, though perhaps it is a little early, but in any case it
won't be eating it, so I don't think any harm will come from dosing it
with Sodium chlorate.

I don't know how long the Chlorate would take to break down in the nest,
but you'd be exposing the female to long periods of any chemical while
she incubates. This would be true for the chicks too who would be
sitting in a nest with some dosed dead moss until fledging. The chicks
wouldn't have much feather protection for some time and would be
spending time with thin skin pressed to moss. I'd tend to try to avoid
sprying any chemical around if the sprayed stuff was likely to end up in
a nest.

Spraying where birds aren't collecting then yes, and spraying and
covering fine. The most recent surveys of bird life are showing such
drop offs in populations of small birds that I'd like to keep the risk
of even minor contamination as small as possible.

We see very little in our garden, but are so far assuming that it is
because we only started to implement the garden last year when we moved
in and cut down the leylandii. There are no shrubs, undergrowth or cover
that birds can use on their way to the feeding table as yet. This'll be
fixed in the next month or so (gardening schedule is slipping a lot due
to the puppy we gained in October and the baby on the way come July)

Warwick

In article , Warwick
writes
In article ,
says...

In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

"John wrote in message ...
I know this is a gardening group, and I am not off topic, honest!.

I have a wren and a wagtail attacking the moss between flags. If only
they
removed it all I would be very happy, however I suspect they are really
going after the insects not the moss.

Not so sure about that, the local Wren that lives in our Ivy normally
removes a lot of Sphagnum moss from my pots of Pleiones about now (I've seen
it fly off with it) and I've always assumed it was for nest building, anyone
confirm that?

Could well be, though perhaps it is a little early, but in any case it
won't be eating it, so I don't think any harm will come from dosing it
with Sodium chlorate.

I don't know how long the Chlorate would take to break down in the nest,
but you'd be exposing the female to long periods of any chemical while
she incubates. This would be true for the chicks too who would be
sitting in a nest with some dosed dead moss until fledging. The chicks
wouldn't have much feather protection for some time and would be
spending time with thin skin pressed to moss. I'd tend to try to avoid
sprying any chemical around if the sprayed stuff was likely to end up in
a nest.

Spraying where birds aren't collecting then yes, and spraying and
covering fine. The most recent surveys of bird life are showing such
drop offs in populations of small birds that I'd like to keep the risk
of even minor contamination as small as possible.

I think we all agree with that. I'm not keen on pesticide use in any
case - I always think moss among paving stones adds an attractive border
to them! And while sodium chlorate is rated as having nil or minimal
skin absorption, that is, of course, through human skin.

We see very little in our garden, but are so far assuming that it is
because we only started to implement the garden last year when we moved
in and cut down the leylandii. There are no shrubs, undergrowth or cover
that birds can use on their way to the feeding table as yet. This'll be
fixed in the next month or so (gardening schedule is slipping a lot due
to the puppy we gained in October and the baby on the way come July)

Careful, Warwick, you're allowing yourself to become distracted from
your gardening :-)

--
Malcolm