John,

I've had good luck dumping the tools into a drum of turface fines (but dry
sand would work great) and then rolling it to and fro for a few minutes. The
tools come out spotless.

David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email:


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf
Of John T. Jarrett
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 2:34 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Removing Tool Rust?


:/

I just found a tub of tools I thought I had put in the garage
before winter
came.

Any good soaks for getting the rust outta them creases and seams where
grinders and sandpaper don't reach?

I used a half vinegar - half water tub to clean up a cast iron
pot that had
spent ten years in a garage, but that still took hours of wire
brushing and
these tools are just too small for that.


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John:
I used to clean the rust off antique weapons (when I was a collector),
by soaking the rusty parts in Kerosene for a couple of days. Light
steel wool would almost always clean them up.

Carl L. Rosner

John T. Jarrett wrote:

:/

I just found a tub of tools I thought I had put in the garage before winter
came.

Any good soaks for getting the rust outta them creases and seams where
grinders and sandpaper don't reach?

I used a half vinegar - half water tub to clean up a cast iron pot that had
spent ten years in a garage, but that still took hours of wire brushing and
these tools are just too small for that.

Thanks!
--

John T. Jarrett

http://logontexas.com



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----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Jarrett"
Subject: [IBC] Removing Tool Rust?


I just found a tub of tools I thought I had put in the garage before
winter
came.
Any good soaks for getting the rust outta them creases and seams where
grinders and sandpaper don't reach?
I used a half vinegar - half water tub to clean up a cast iron pot that
had
spent ten years in a garage, but that still took hours of wire brushing
and
these tools are just too small for that.
John T. Jarrett


John,
OK, I've read enough coca-cola, beer and vinegar suggestions that I figured
I'd respond.
Rust is VERY HARD to REMOVE COMPLETELY and will return if not done. Before
I dove into a lot of work I'd ask myself...are these $3 Chinese tools or
good $25-40 Japanese hand-fitted quality steel? If they are $3
chinese...well, what is your time worth?
My suggestion is to use a naval jelly on them to truly remove the rust.
Multiple applications probably needed. If that works you'll want to
re-color them again. You can use a cold gun blue to do this fairly nicely
That's not how the Japanese do it, but it looks pretty nice) You can get
cold gun blue at any big gun store/sports store. roughly about $6 for a 4oz
bottle. All you'd need. One helpful hint, it works better if steel is
"warm" and not cold. Years of experience tell me that if I warmed it in the
oven when it is a temp that I can "just handle" it is right. Use cotton
balls to swab it on, two or three "coats". Resharpen blades when done. BTW,
this touches up worn black finishes nice on good tools.
Re; Dave B's recommendation. I've certainly never tried shaking tools a few
moments on a bunch of Haydite fines, but, it has some merit , although "
a few minutes" doesn't sound right. I'd think you need something more
mechanized for a fair period of time. If very valuable tools you might seek
out someone who reloads bullets. They tumble brass casings in walnut shell
fines , etc to a polish. This would work on tools if someone would do it for
you. Again, you could ask about it at a gun dealer. They may know someone
who will accomodate you..
If this is the route you go you will find that they will be seriously
dulled and need sharpening correctly. And, it's fairly easy to re-tighten
the hinges yourself.
You will now get "Rock polisher" posts, :) forget that.

All in all, my suggestion, Use naval jelly w/ steel wool & brass brush ( not
power tool brushing)and then after wahing/degreasing use "Cold gun blue" on
them. BTW, "Cold" meaning it's not done in a hot tank/salts mixture as in
manufacturing. This is certainly not as durable as the several ways to
"blue" ( or blacken) steel tools/cutters/guns but it is easy, kinda fun, and
looks nice.
I use this one jin knives and it looks good. A friend who makes his own
jin tools ala blacksmithing uses oil in one of the final processes to color
nicely but don't heat up your hand tools enough to try that.In short...
Thats more complicated than it sounds.
Just some thought.
Regards,
Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

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Dale....

The tub should be four-fifths full of dry sand or turface fines... I did two
tools in about 10 minutes, they were sorely rusty and came out immaculate.

This is how the old school warriors removed rust from their chain mail
garments.

David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email:


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf
Of dalecochoy
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 1:01 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Removing Tool Rust?


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Jarrett"
Subject: [IBC] Removing Tool Rust?


I just found a tub of tools I thought I had put in the garage before
winter
came.
Any good soaks for getting the rust outta them creases and seams where
grinders and sandpaper don't reach?
I used a half vinegar - half water tub to clean up a cast iron pot that
had
spent ten years in a garage, but that still took hours of wire brushing
and
these tools are just too small for that.
John T. Jarrett


John,
OK, I've read enough coca-cola, beer and vinegar suggestions that
I figured
I'd respond.
Rust is VERY HARD to REMOVE COMPLETELY and will return if not
done. Before
I dove into a lot of work I'd ask myself...are these $3 Chinese tools or
good $25-40 Japanese hand-fitted quality steel? If they are $3
chinese...well, what is your time worth?
My suggestion is to use a naval jelly on them to truly remove the rust.
Multiple applications probably needed. If that works you'll want to
re-color them again. You can use a cold gun blue to do this fairly nicely
That's not how the Japanese do it, but it looks pretty nice) You can get
cold gun blue at any big gun store/sports store. roughly about $6
for a 4oz
bottle. All you'd need. One helpful hint, it works better if steel is
"warm" and not cold. Years of experience tell me that if I
warmed it in the
oven when it is a temp that I can "just handle" it is right. Use cotton
balls to swab it on, two or three "coats". Resharpen blades when
done. BTW,
this touches up worn black finishes nice on good tools.
Re; Dave B's recommendation. I've certainly never tried shaking
tools a few
moments on a bunch of Haydite fines, but, it has some merit ,
although "
a few minutes" doesn't sound right. I'd think you need something more
mechanized for a fair period of time. If very valuable tools you
might seek
out someone who reloads bullets. They tumble brass casings in walnut shell
fines , etc to a polish. This would work on tools if someone
would do it for
you. Again, you could ask about it at a gun dealer. They may know someone
who will accomodate you..
If this is the route you go you will find that they will be seriously
dulled and need sharpening correctly. And, it's fairly easy to re-tighten
the hinges yourself.
You will now get "Rock polisher" posts, :) forget that.


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You could always have them glass beaded too then refinished.--I crucified my
hate and
held the world within my hands--
Neal Ross-Marysville CA


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----- Original Message -----
From: "David J. Bockman" Subject: [IBC] Removing Tool Rust?


Dale....
The tub should be four-fifths full of dry sand or turface fines... I did
two
tools in about 10 minutes, they were sorely rusty and came out immaculate.

This is how the old school warriors removed rust from their chain mail
garments.
David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA

Okaaayyyy! 10 minutes, I'll have to try that!
BTW, Dave, I didn't know they had Turface or Haydite in the 1100's!
:)
Dale

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Ross"
Subject: [IBC] Removing Tool Rust?


You could always have them glass beaded too then refinished Neal
Ross-Marysville CA



Have you done this with tools or is this just an "idea". I'd think glass
beading ( and sand blasting) would be extremely hard on cutting surfaces.
Not to mention, difficult to find someone who wants to bother spraying a
couple tools for you, unless he was an acquaintance. Otherwise I'd doubt
they'd bother.
Dale

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paghat wrote:

With any extended exposure, the carbonic acid in Coke dissolves iron, not
just the rusty bits.

Sorry, no. Carbonic acid (a reducing agent) reacts with rust (ferric
oxide) to form ferrous iron, which is water-soluble. It does not react
with elemental iron. Though, if you leave carbonic acid (in water
solution) in contact with iron for an extended period, with access to
oxygen, the iron will continue to rust, and the rust almost
immediately be reduced by the carbonic acid, giving the appearance the
the iron is being directly attacked. So don't leave your rusty tools
in Coke forever

The "black" coating mentioned in another response (sorry, didn't save
it) is not the return of rust to elemental iron as suggested, but the
formation of a dark iron oxide, Fe3O4, aka gun bluing, though it IS a
protection against further rusting. See
http://www.colamachines.com/howto/Rust_101.htm
(this site also has good summaries of various methods to clear rust,
though it does confuse Coke's very low phosphoric acid concentration
with that of Phosphoric Acid etch baths...)

...Coca Cola syrup delivery vans & trucks have to have
special permits for the transport of highly corrosive materials.

Doubtful; this may be an urban legend, too. Even concentrated Coke
(syrup) is not very acid. The concentrations of phosphoric (a mere 11
to 13 grams per gallon of syrup, or about 0.20 to 0.30% per
snopes.com) and citric acids (even less) in it are quite low, and the
carbonic acid only is present after the syrup is carbonated. So
corrosive, yes, but not "highly", just "barely". A more likely reason
for treating the syrup as a corrosive agent is that even a small
amount of dissoved metal ions would result in a metallic off-taste to
the Coke loss of bucks and reputation are big motivators for big companies!

...The
recurring story that the Highway Patrol uses Coca Cola to clean up the
blood after deadly auto accidents is pure legendry, but fun to imagine.

Yup

For debunking various Coke myths, see
http://www2.coca-cola.com/contactus/...gredients.html
http://www2.coca-cola.com/contactus/...packaging.html

Anita
Northern Harford County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 6

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Sorry, no. Carbonic acid (a reducing agent) reacts with rust (ferric
oxide) to form ferrous iron, which is water-soluble. It does not react
with elemental iron. Though, if you leave carbonic acid (in water
solution) in contact with iron for an extended period, with access to
oxygen, the iron will continue to rust, and the rust almost
immediately be reduced by the carbonic acid, giving the appearance the
the iron is being directly attacked.

I think we've stumbled onto the formula for New Coke P

David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email:

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"Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A." wrote:

John Jones wrote:
Why? Is lactic acid useful for removing tool rust?

Probably, judging by the way it eats tooth enamel.

Ummm... Dr. Rev. Chuck might want to keep in mind that tooth enamel is
basically ROCK, that is, a non-metallic mineral, carbonated calcium
hydroxy-apatite if you want to get technical.

I see no reason that lactic acid's ability to dissolve teeth has
anything to do with its ability to dissolve rust, a metallic iron
oxide. Excepting that *any* acid might accelerate the process of iron
oxide - soluble ferrous iron.

Now, if you want to get into removing rust stains from teeth, rather
than from tools, this might be a relevant discussion but it belongs
on a different list.

Here's something more useful: a primer and collection of rust removal
methods for tools, including links and credits to the authors of the
info. Has anyone tried elctrolytic rust removal?? This might actually
be useful to the original (now long-lost) author of the question...
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html

Anita

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Anita Hawkins"
Subject: [IBC] Removing Tool Rust?


paghat wrote:

With any extended exposure, the carbonic acid in Coke dissolves iron,
not
just the rusty bits.



Gosh, doesn't everyone think we've wasted enough space talking about Coke
removing rust? NO ONE uses coke to remove rust to ready ANYTHING for
refinishing or to restore it! C'mon.

The "black" coating mentioned in another response (sorry, didn't save
it) is not the return of rust to elemental iron as suggested, but the
formation of a dark iron oxide, Fe3O4, aka gun bluing, though it IS a
protection against further rusting.

Blueing has been a long-time method to protect steel. Guns ( old blueing
from the 1800's was beautiful), tools, etc. Cold Blueing ( which I've used
lots) is nice, looks good but doesn't protect ( for certain) the way that
hot blueing ( gun industry) does and needs re-done frfom time to time. . oil
emersion, and a few other tricks, during heat treating is also a great way
to color/protect metal.


...Coca Cola syrup delivery vans & trucks have to have
special permits for the transport of highly corrosive materials.

Doubtful; this may be an urban legend, too. Even concentrated Coke
(syrup) is not very acid. corrosive, yes, but not "highly", just
"barely". A more likely reason
for treating the syrup as a corrosive agent is that even a small
amount of dissoved metal ions would result in a metallic off-taste to
the Coke loss of bucks and reputation are big motivators for big
companies!

As a EX-Coke employee ( I worked at the Akron plant in late 60's paying my
way through electronics schooling) I can tell you that the concentrated
syrup was mixed 6:1 with water. The old original 6 1/2 oz. classic
distinctive glass bottles had 1oz of syrup.It was delivered in, and they
kept it in large stainless steel tanks and it did drip a bit on the floor
and had eaten away at the cement a TAD over about 50 years.

Dale

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