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Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?



 
 
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  #1  
Old 10-03-2008, 08:56 AM
Registered User
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2008
Posts: 1
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

Hi,

I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I having trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.

I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing vegitables to eat.

Normally I pick them all up, but I went away on Holiday and returned to find a phenominal amount in the garden. I started to pick it all up but it started raining heavily. Now I have found it has all disappeared - dissolved into the soil.

Before I get any advice on how to stop the Cat I have already tried: Lion poo, tea bags soaked in Olbas oil, pepper, ultra sonic cat scarers, making friends with the cat and feeding him, orange peel, CDs stuck into the ground and making access difficult. My plan was now to install an outside tap and fit a motion sensor with water gun.
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2008, 04:00 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,265
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article ,
Erik Johnson wrote:

Hi,

I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I having
trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.

I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing vegitables
to eat.

Normally I pick them all up, but I went away on Holiday and returned to
find a phenominal amount in the garden. I started to pick it all up but
it started raining heavily. Now I have found it has all disappeared -
dissolved into the soil.

Before I get any advice on how to stop the Cat I have already tried:
Lion poo, tea bags soaked in Olbas oil, pepper, ultra sonic cat
scarers, making friends with the cat and feeding him, orange peel, CDs
stuck into the ground and making access difficult. My plan was now to
install an outside tap and fit a motion sensor with water gun.


I think you just found the answer. Just remember to turn it off, when
you go into the garden.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/
  #3  
Old 10-03-2008, 04:54 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 340
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Erik Johnson wrote:

Hi,

I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I having
trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.

I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing vegitables
to eat.

Normally I pick them all up, but I went away on Holiday and returned to
find a phenominal amount in the garden. I started to pick it all up but
it started raining heavily. Now I have found it has all disappeared -
dissolved into the soil.

Before I get any advice on how to stop the Cat I have already tried:
Lion poo, tea bags soaked in Olbas oil, pepper, ultra sonic cat
scarers, making friends with the cat and feeding him, orange peel, CDs
stuck into the ground and making access difficult. My plan was now to
install an outside tap and fit a motion sensor with water gun.


I think you just found the answer. Just remember to turn it off, when
you go into the garden.


I am not an expert and could be wrong about this.

I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans. I think it goes like this. If
the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach, the
animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for
vegetable gardening. The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans
included

Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like
cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.

To keep cats out of the garden you could try the "cat-scat" mats.
http://www.gardeners.com/Safe+Cat+De...efault,pd.html
a fence may work as well.

I would not feed the cats if they are not yours. Feeding them will just
make them poo more and stay around your home longer. If your Cats, they
are very good at keeping the mice away and can be trained to use a
litter box.

In my world it is rabbits, mice and bugs that are problems.
My little yappy dog helps with the rabbits.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.
  #4  
Old 10-03-2008, 05:25 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:54:38 -0400, Dan L. wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Erik Johnson wrote:

Hi,

I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I having
trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.

I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing
vegitables to eat.

Normally I pick them all up, but I went away on Holiday and returned
to find a phenominal amount in the garden. I started to pick it all
up but it started raining heavily. Now I have found it has all
disappeared - dissolved into the soil.

Before I get any advice on how to stop the Cat I have already tried:
Lion poo, tea bags soaked in Olbas oil, pepper, ultra sonic cat
scarers, making friends with the cat and feeding him, orange peel,
CDs stuck into the ground and making access difficult. My plan was
now to install an outside tap and fit a motion sensor with water gun.


I think you just found the answer. Just remember to turn it off, when
you go into the garden.


I am not an expert and could be wrong about this.

I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans. I think it goes like this. If
the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach, the
animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for
vegetable gardening. The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans
included

Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like
cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.

To keep cats out of the garden you could try the "cat-scat" mats.
http://www.gardeners.com/Safe+Cat+De...efault,pd.html a
fence may work as well.

I would not feed the cats if they are not yours. Feeding them will just
make them poo more and stay around your home longer. If your Cats, they
are very good at keeping the mice away and can be trained to use a
litter box.

In my world it is rabbits, mice and bugs that are problems. My little
yappy dog helps with the rabbits.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


Ruminants have e-coli in their systems also, the spinach food poisoning
episode that happened last year was caused by run off from a nearby
cattle ranch.
  #5  
Old 10-03-2008, 06:44 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Erik Johnson wrote:

I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I having

trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.

I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing vegitables

to eat.

[snip]

One thing that is known is that pregnant women are at increased risk
for toxoplasmosis as a result of exposure to cat feces. There may
be other hazards to the general public - especially if the cat happens
to be sick.

It's a real nuisance - I know my garden is frequently the toilet for
cats all over the neighborhood. I've yet to hear of any reasonable
solution

-f
  #6  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:00 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

On Mar 10, 11:44�am, Frank Miles wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Erik Johnson wrote:
I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I having


trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.

I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing vegitables


to eat.

[snip]

One thing that is known is that pregnant women are at increased risk
for toxoplasmosis as a result of exposure to cat feces. �There may
be other hazards to the general public - especially if the cat happens
to be sick.

It's a real nuisance - I know my garden is frequently the toilet for
cats all over the neighborhood. �I've yet to hear of any reasonable
solution

� � � � -f


My local coffee shop makes used grounds available for anyone to haul
away. If you spread it around the garden it greatly discourages cats
(they don't like the taste when they lick it off their paws). As a
beneficial side-effect, it kills snails and slugs and encourages
earthworms.
  #7  
Old 10-03-2008, 09:02 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,265
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

I am not an expert and could be wrong about this.

I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans.


Correct. Toxoplasmosis.

I think it goes like this. If
the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach, the
animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for
vegetable gardening.

Horribly wrong.

Chewing (mouth), acid bath (stomach), and bile (small intestine)
mechanically and enzymaticaly break down our food.

The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans
included

Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like
cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.

There are various strains of E coli. Some are pathogenic (O157:H7 for
example) most are not. Most E coli are in the intestine because it is an
ecological niche that can be exploited, but the unintended consequence
is that they leave no room for pathological bacteria to establish
themselves, which keep us healthy.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/
  #8  
Old 11-03-2008, 02:57 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 340
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

I am not an expert and could be wrong about this.

I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans.


Correct. Toxoplasmosis.

I think it goes like this. If
the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach, the
animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for
vegetable gardening.

Horribly wrong.

Chewing (mouth), acid bath (stomach), and bile (small intestine)
mechanically and enzymaticaly break down our food.

The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans
included

Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like
cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.

There are various strains of E coli. Some are pathogenic (O157:H7 for
example) most are not. Most E coli are in the intestine because it is an
ecological niche that can be exploited, but the unintended consequence
is that they leave no room for pathological bacteria to establish
themselves, which keep us healthy.


To Other posters:
Please expand my knowledge. I agree that my view was wrong on the
digestive process of animals. Billy's view makes more sense.

Question #1:
I always thought at least carnivore's poop was not good for use in
vegetable gardens because it contains E-coli. Is this concept correct?
If not, Why?

Question #2:
Does herbivores like cows have E-coli in their poop?
I thought one did not get E-coli from cattle products. I thought E-coli
came from unsanitary meet packing houses that ended up in ground meat.
Steaks were not a problem, simply searing the steak would kill the
E-coli on the surface area (marinading meet should be cooked thoughly).

Question #3:
From reading Charlie's posting, the answer to #2 seems to be yes.
So does this mean that even cow manure (cow poop) should not even be
used on gardens also? This seems to go against an old tradition.

I do believe E-coli can be found from contaminated water and if used on
vegetable gardens can be bad news also. I thought water contamination
came from mostly human waste sewer run offs and not cattle wastes run
offs.

Please expand my knowledge of this subject. Just trying to get some
basic rules on the use of animal waste fertilizers if one should use it.

Dan......

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.
  #9  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:46 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 531
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

Erik Johnson wrote:
Hi,

I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I having
trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.

I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing vegitables
to eat.

Normally I pick them all up, but I went away on Holiday and returned to
find a phenominal amount in the garden. I started to pick it all up but
it started raining heavily. Now I have found it has all disappeared -
dissolved into the soil.

Before I get any advice on how to stop the Cat I have already tried:
Lion poo, tea bags soaked in Olbas oil, pepper, ultra sonic cat
scarers, making friends with the cat and feeding him, orange peel, CDs
stuck into the ground and making access difficult. My plan was now to
install an outside tap and fit a motion sensor with water gun.






I wouldn't worry about it unless you are growing root vegetables, like
onions or carrots.

The biggest problem I have with cats is when they dig up young plants in
the flower beds.

I have a couple of dog (one of them is a big dog) and this year when I
do my "spring cleaning" in the back yard, I'm planning to dig a deep
trench in the garden. I'll bury all the dog mess, and later plant
tomatoes over the top of it. I think tomatoes will like that.

Bob
  #10  
Old 11-03-2008, 04:06 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 440
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?


"Dan L." wrote in message news:doesnotwork-

I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans.


A risk of disease tranmission at least (eg toxoplasmosis), not to menton the
smell.

I think it goes like this. If
the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach,


So do many herbivores. Horses and rabbits for example produce manure that is
quite suitable for the garden from a one-chambered stomach.

the
animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for
vegetable gardening. The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans
included

Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like
cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.


The ruminants (cattle, sheep, goats, bufalo, alpacas etc ) have
multi-chambered stomachs also have E Coli in their gut.

The main issue is, are there likely to be diseases that can pass from the
manure to humans, this is not limited to which strain of E Coli may be in the
gut. This is the source of the generalisation about carnivore manure being
unsuitable and herbivore being suitable. A secondary consideration is the
smell and the minimal fibre content in carnivore manure. It isn't the shape
of the digestive tract or the bible :-)

David




  #11  
Old 11-03-2008, 06:34 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,265
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

I am not an expert and could be wrong about this.

I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans.


Correct. Toxoplasmosis.

I think it goes like this. If
the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach, the
animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for
vegetable gardening.

Horribly wrong.

Chewing (mouth), acid bath (stomach), and bile (small intestine)
mechanically and enzymaticaly break down our food.

The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans
included

Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like
cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.

There are various strains of E coli. Some are pathogenic (O157:H7 for
example) most are not. Most E coli are in the intestine because it is an
ecological niche that can be exploited, but the unintended consequence
is that they leave no room for pathological bacteria to establish
themselves, which keep us healthy.


To Other posters:
Please expand my knowledge. I agree that my view was wrong on the
digestive process of animals. Billy's view makes more sense.

Question #1:
I always thought at least carnivore's poop was not good for use in
vegetable gardens because it contains E-coli. Is this concept correct?
If not, Why?

Question #2:
Does herbivores like cows have E-coli in their poop?
I thought one did not get E-coli from cattle products. I thought E-coli
came from unsanitary meet packing houses that ended up in ground meat.
Steaks were not a problem, simply searing the steak would kill the
E-coli on the surface area (marinading meet should be cooked thoughly).

Question #3:
From reading Charlie's posting, the answer to #2 seems to be yes.
So does this mean that even cow manure (cow poop) should not even be
used on gardens also? This seems to go against an old tradition.

I do believe E-coli can be found from contaminated water and if used on
vegetable gardens can be bad news also. I thought water contamination
came from mostly human waste sewer run offs and not cattle wastes run
offs.

Please expand my knowledge of this subject. Just trying to get some
basic rules on the use of animal waste fertilizers if one should use it.

Dan......

http://ehs.ucdavis.edu/animal/health/enterics.cfm

As such, enteric bacteria imply feces. If you find one, you'll find the
other.

The intestines of all animals are colonized by a large number of
microbes. Most of these are harmless, or even beneficial. Others are
harmless in normal individuals, but can produce disease in the very
young, those with weakened immune systems, or in a new host that has no
prior experience with the microbe. Some bacteria are much more
pathogenic and can produce disease in normal individuals on a regular
basis.

These are a few of the enteric bacteria most often associated with
disease in humans :

* Salmonella
The genus Salmonella includes a very large number of species and
serotypes. Many Salmonellae are infectious for man. Salmonellae can
cause disease in animals, but may also be carried by apparently healthy
animals. Salmonellae are especially likely to be carried by reptiles,
birds, and wild rodents. Salmonellosis is one of the most common causes
of diarrhea and food poisoning in man.


* Campylobacter jejuni
Campylobacter jejuni is also a very common cause of diarrhea in man. It
can be carried by most other mammals and by birds; it is especially
likely to be found in cattle, sheep, dogs and poultry. In mammals,
Campylobacter is most likely to be seen in young animals with diarrhea.
A very high proportion of chickens shed Campylobacter in their feces,
yet they rarely show any sign of illness.

* Eschericia coli (pathogenic strains)
Escherichia coli is one of the most common intestinal bacteria and is a
normal part of every mammals intestinal flora. While most E. coli
bacteria are harmless, there are a few specific types of E. coli that
can produce disease. Disease caused by pathogenic strains of E. coli is
most likely to be seen in cattle, swine, and humans.

* Shigella
Shigella is a tropical bacteria species that is often seen in primates,
but rarely in other animals. Shigella is a common cause of intestinal
illness in the tropics, but is rare in this country. The species of
Shigella seen in laboratory primates seldom infects people, but is at
least a potential risk. The signs of all the above in man would be
similar, although they may vary in severity. All can cause diarrhea,
cramping, and fever. Most cases are minor, but these infections can be
quite severe, especially in the young, the pregnant, or those with
compromised immune systems.

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/manures.html

Raw manure may NOT be applied to food crops within 120 days of harvest
where edible portions have soil contact (i.e., most vegetables,
strawberries, etc.); it may NOT be applied to food crops within 90 days
of harvest where edible portions do not have soil contact (i.e., grain
crops, most tree fruits). Such restrictions do not apply to feed and
fiber crops.

Washington State University suggests that growers:
*Apply animal manures at least 60 days prior to harvest of any vegetable
that will be eaten without cooking.
*If possible, avoid manure spreading after planting.

See: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/foodnut/09369.html
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/
  #12  
Old 11-03-2008, 06:44 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,265
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:57:26 -0400, "Dan L."
wrote:


To Other posters:
Please expand my knowledge. I agree that my view was wrong on the
digestive process of animals. Billy's view makes more sense.

Question #1:
I always thought at least carnivore's poop was not good for use in
vegetable gardens because it contains E-coli. Is this concept correct?
If not, Why?


It's not the e-coli, it is a plethora of other pathogens and parasites,
some of which haven't been determined to be destroyed by composting.
Some parasite eggs can live in the soil for a considerable length of
time...longer than one season. Imagine grubbing about with your
fingers insoil that is contaminated with hookworm, whipworm,
coccycidiosis (yeah, it ain't just a chicken disease...years ago we
came up with an abandoned collie that ws infected and we quickly had
one hell of a problem with the other dogs and the soil.....it was over
a year before we whipped that problem...like I said fecals every six
now.) Good grief, as I ponder this, it makes me want to go hang the
dog and cat! ;-) Not really, the cat gets dewormed every three months
whether he needs it or not and the dog gets a fecal check every six.

People really need to be aware of the fact that many animal parasites
are zoonotic, that is, they are transmitted to humans. If you have
animals, particularly pets with which you are in close contact, they
need to be checked often.

Question #2:
Does herbivores like cows have E-coli in their poop?


Yes. Other nasties too. Fresh horse manure and urine, for example,
can contain, and transmit tetanus and lepto, amongst other things and
parasites.

I thought one did not get E-coli from cattle products. I thought E-coli
came from unsanitary meet packing houses that ended up in ground meat.
Steaks were not a problem, simply searing the steak would kill the
E-coli on the surface area (marinading meet should be cooked thoughly).


AHhhh......I truly do enjoy a nice thick rare to medium-rare piece of
cow. I'm pretty picky about my source though.

Question #3:
From reading Charlie's posting, the answer to #2 seems to be yes.
So does this mean that even cow manure (cow poop) should not even be
used on gardens also? This seems to go against an old tradition.


Just a couple of links that describe the hazards and offer
recommendations about how to safely use cow crap.

http://gardening.wsu.edu/stewardship...re/manure2.htm

http://eap.mcgill.ca/SFMC_1.htm


I do believe E-coli can be found from contaminated water and if used on
vegetable gardens can be bad news also. I thought water contamination
came from mostly human waste sewer run offs and not cattle wastes run
offs.


No longer. Here in northern MO and elsewhere, CAFO (concentrated
animal feed operations), hogs in particular, are a huge issue and
concern and the subjuct of a lot of contention and lawsuits. Water and
air pollution is rampant, though proponents and many local and state
governments say otherwise. The CAFO folks usually win. If you have
ever been by such an operation, and seen inside and smelled them, from
miles away even, you might question eating pork. Same for most other
massed produced meats. And eggs. And milk. Fortunately for the
masses, milk is pasteurized.


The author of The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved,Sandor Ellix Katz,
will argue that one. Katz claims that pasturization kills milk ability
to defend itself. Natural milk, says Katz. has lactobacillus in it which
will cause milk to sour (buttermilk) raising it's acidity and lowering
its' pH which will protect it naturally for a few days.

Let me know if you want the the whole argument.

We used to purchase raw milk from a
neighbor, but I helped him milk sometimes and he was absolutely
meticulous about sanitation. Washed the bag and teats before milking
with water and antiseptic, sterilized milk buckets, clean hands,
instantly cooled. Cows were tested for TB.

Life is risky. Ya just gotta know how to minimize, or eliminate, those
risks.

Please expand my knowledge of this subject. Just trying to get some
basic rules on the use of animal waste fertilizers if one should use it.


My recommendation is to use only composted manure. I shy away from
using manure, prefering alfalfa, both baled and meal. I also use fish
emusions. This year I am trying the compost tea routine for soil
health.

Herbivore manure can be a good source of nutrients, properly used.
Composted, applied in the fall and allowed to overwinter, etc. Many
parasites live in the soil and as a part of their reproductive cycle
are attached to grasses, just waiting for the next herbivore to come
along and complete the cycle.

After writing this, it occurs to me that one may want to use similar
sanitary precautions that you would use in your kitchen.

HTH
Care
Charlie

--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/
  #13  
Old 11-03-2008, 01:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

I am not an expert and could be wrong about this.

I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans.


Correct. Toxoplasmosis.

I think it goes like this. If
the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach,
the
animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for
vegetable gardening.

Horribly wrong.

Chewing (mouth), acid bath (stomach), and bile (small intestine)
mechanically and enzymaticaly break down our food.

The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans
included

Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like
cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for
digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.

There are various strains of E coli. Some are pathogenic (O157:H7 for
example) most are not. Most E coli are in the intestine because it is an
ecological niche that can be exploited, but the unintended consequence
is that they leave no room for pathological bacteria to establish
themselves, which keep us healthy.


To Other posters:
Please expand my knowledge. I agree that my view was wrong on the
digestive process of animals. Billy's view makes more sense.

Question #1:
I always thought at least carnivore's poop was not good for use in
vegetable gardens because it contains E-coli. Is this concept correct?
If not, Why?

Question #2:
Does herbivores like cows have E-coli in their poop?
I thought one did not get E-coli from cattle products. I thought E-coli
came from unsanitary meet packing houses that ended up in ground meat.
Steaks were not a problem, simply searing the steak would kill the
E-coli on the surface area (marinading meet should be cooked thoughly).

Question #3:
From reading Charlie's posting, the answer to #2 seems to be yes.
So does this mean that even cow manure (cow poop) should not even be
used on gardens also? This seems to go against an old tradition.

I do believe E-coli can be found from contaminated water and if used on
vegetable gardens can be bad news also. I thought water contamination
came from mostly human waste sewer run offs and not cattle wastes run
offs.

Please expand my knowledge of this subject. Just trying to get some
basic rules on the use of animal waste fertilizers if one should use it.

Dan......

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash
automatically.


Traditionally, most gardeners don't put cow poop in a garden. The reasoning
is the hay in their diet. They don't want to weed out the consequential
seeds in the hay spawning unwanted growth.

E-coli is spread to meat in butchering from the internal part of the
digestive tract of the animal. Sanitation is always important. Segregation
of internal contents of the digestive tract from the meat is just as
important. Its more common with chickens. But, exists with cattle as well.

--
Dave

My vote in this primary was for the lesser
of many evils...


  #14  
Old 11-03-2008, 05:07 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,265
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article , "Dioclese" NONE
wrote:


Traditionally, most gardeners don't put cow poop in a garden. The reasoning
is the hay in their diet. They don't want to weed out the consequential
seeds in the hay spawning unwanted growth.

E-coli is spread to meat in butchering from the internal part of the
digestive tract of the animal. Sanitation is always important. Segregation
of internal contents of the digestive tract from the meat is just as
important. Its more common with chickens. But, exists with cattle as well.


Maybe some one can address "worming" in horses. I read once that the
medicines that kill worms in horses guts will also kill them in the
ground. The gist of the article was that if you are buying horse manure,
find out first if the horse(s) have been recently de-wormed.

I'd appreciate a response from any one who could talk authoritatively to
this subject.

In response to the second paragraph of Dioclese's response, this is why
there are laws that limit the fecal (FECAL) content in our food (How
much fecal content are you comfortable with?). At a poultry "processor",
75,000 to 90,000 birds are "processed" a night. At over 180 birds a
minute, some things get by the killing crew.

Animals have to die for us to eat meat, but they don't have to be
tortured first (factory farms). Living conditions have changed little in
the push to "organic" meat. The difference is in the fodder and the
withdrawal of antibiotics.

I recommend that you try to find a source of humanely raised meat, and
eat less of it.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/
  #15  
Old 11-03-2008, 05:48 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,265
Default Is cat poo harmful to vegatable/human health?

In article
,
Billy wrote:

The author of The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved,Sandor Ellix Katz,
will argue that one. Katz claims that pasturization kills milk ability
to defend itself. Natural milk, says Katz. has lactobacillus in it which
will cause milk to sour (buttermilk) raising it's acidity and lowering
its' pH which will protect it naturally for a few days.

Let me know if you want the the whole argument.


Aw hell, I think this is too important for everybody, so here goes.
-------

The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved pg. 165 - 168

A Brief History of Mandatory Pasteurization

Perhaps you are wondering how raw milk came to be illegal and
associated with disease if all these virtues I'm singing are for real.
The reality is that not all milk is created equal. Traditionally, cows
have been pastured (not pasteurized), given plenty of space to graze on
grass. This is how ruminants thrive. This practice makes for mostly
healthv animals and safe, nutritious milk. Ruminants evolved grazing,
and milk (as well as meat) from grass-pastured animals is rnore
nutritious than that from animals fed primarily grain, especially in
terms of beneficial omega-3 fatty acids and a nutrient called conjugated
linoleic acid (CLA), an important omega-6 fatty acid that is found in
milk from grass-fed animals in concentrations up to five times the
amount found in milk from grain-fed animals.
As a result of rapid urbanization, particularly during the nineteenth
century, many dairies expanded their herds to meet rising demand for
milk, while simultaneously pasture land was getting crowded out. This
forced urban dairies to search for more space-intensive methods. '
Meanwhile a domestic liquor-distilling industry began to develop in the
United States, which produced lots of waste in the form of spent grains
known as "swill" or "slop." The urban dairies found in the distilleries_
by-product a cheap alternative to pastures for feeding their cows. The
two industries coined together, first in New York City, and slop dairies
became widespread around the United States by the 1830s.
Slop diets kept cows lactating, but it made them unhealthy. "The milk
was so defective in the properties essential to good milk that it could
not be made into butter or cheese," writes naturopathic doctor and dairy
farmer Ron Schmid, author of The Untold Story of Milk." Instead of
keeping cows outside grazing in pastures as cows always had been, the
new dairy industry confined their cows and fed them slop. Their feces
were concentrated rather than dispersed, and they wallowed in it.
Nonetheless the milk produced by the slop dairies was popular, because
it was cheap. By 1852 three-quarters of milk sales in New York City were
of slop milk. Problems were developing as well, specifically rising
mortality rates among infants, leading to debates over "the milk
problem."
Two distinct milk reform movements emerged in the 1890s. One,
advocated primarily by medical doctors, called for "certified milk." The
"milk cure" was a long-established healing regime prescribed by many
medical doctors of the time, and good-quality milk was regarded by the
profession as an important factor in maintaining health. Milk certifying
commissions were formed by medical associations in many areas. The
commissions established hygiene and care standards for farms, per-formed
inspections, and gave their seals of approval to milk from farms meeting
the standards.
"The other reform movement advocated pasteurization as the most
effective means of making the milk supply safe. The two contrasting
approaches to safe milkcertification and pasteurizationare not
mutually exclusive. It is possible to have a regulatory scheme in which
some or most milk is pasteurized (and clearly labeled as such), while
other milk that meets some specified standard can be sold raw (and
clearly labeled as such). Such is the situation in California and
several other states today, and historically, both regulatory schemes
overlapped in most places.
Pasteurization is simple, and it dramatically improved infant
survival rates. A powerful advocate for pasteurization was New York
philanthropist Nathan Straus, a partner in Macy's department store.
Straus funded the establishment of "milk depots" around New York, where
slop milk was pasteurized and sold cheaply starting in 1893. Between the
milk depots and the new system of chlorinating the New York City water
system, the epidemic of infant mortality rapidly receded. The diseased
milk from the slop dairies was rendered safer by pasteurization, but
still it lacked the nutrients, enzymes, and bacteria found in raw milk
from healthy pastured cows. Pasteurization was and is "a quick,
technological fix.""
Quick technological fixes have their appeal. New York's success with
pasteurization spurred its rapid spread. In 1908 President Theodore
Roosevelt, an old friend of Straus, ordered a study of milk
pasteurization, and the Surgeon General declared: "Pasteurization
prevents much sickness and saves many lives." A 1911 National Commission
on Milk Standards recommended mandatory pasteurizationexcept for
certified milk. By 1917 pasteurization was legally required or
officially encouraged in forty-six of the fifty-two largest U.S. cities,
and over time, systems of milk certification gradually died out in most
places.
The rise of mandatory pasteurization solidified the myth that raw
milk is inherently dangerousregardless of the conditions of the animals
it comes from. This has become dogma. The people charged with protecting
the public health are so thoroughly indoctrinated with the idea that raw
milk is inherently dangerous that raw milk is always the presumed
culprit if someone who has drunk it falls ill. "Allowing the sale of raw
dairy products goes against everything I ever learned and everything
that public health stands for," said Suzanne Jenkins, head
epidemiologist at the Virginia Department of Health, in 2004." Public
health authorities have a difficult time recognizing that the quality of
the milk is determined by how the animals are kept.
As the pasteurization-promoting Straus said, "If it were possible to
secure pure, fresh milk direct from absolutely healthy cows, there would
be no necessity for pasteurization. If it were possible by legislation
to obtain a milk supply from clean stables after a careful process of
milking, to have transportation to the city in perfectly clean and
closed vessels, then pasteurization would be unnecessary." A hundred
years later, we have refrigeration, and it is possible to obtain pure,
fresh milk that meets all of Strauss criteria. When healthy cows are
removed from confinement and allowed to graze in pastures, their milk is
healthy and safe.
Unfortunately, most places do not permit or regulate the retail sale
of raw milk. In most of the United States and much of the rest of the
world, it is simply illegal to buy or sell raw milk. As more and more'
people learn about the benefits of raw milk and want to start drinking
it, a grassroots underground has emerged, linking consumers directly to
dairy farmers with small, pastured herds.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/
 




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