Stew wrote:

While looking for 75 year old blazes I once found 16 inch diameter maples in
rocky terrain that were over 100 years old ( found my survey evidence), and
, within a mile, a 45 inch maple that was less than 60 years old. It grew in
better soil and with less surrounding tress. It all depends upon soil,
water, and sun, I suppose.

Yes, I realized my folly after hiking in the woods yesterday and
observing the different sizes of same type trees.

Kate

Geoff Kegerreis schreef
The truth about finding a sugar maple age.
2. Some advice below this post has suggested that diffuse porous (wood without vessels) wood

+ + +

Falsehood. Diffuse porous wood has vessels that are more or less the same size throughout the growth ring.

+ + +

is not easily aged by taking a increment sample with a increment borer. This has some validity to it. It's sometimes tough. Personally, I have tried to get the age of sugar maples, and it is my opinion that it makes a significant difference what area you are in and what season it is (because sugar maples produce lots of sap in spring-early summer). Using an increment borer, I would suggest that it would be best in fall to make the core and get some increment bore dye from forestry suppliers (I'd suggest Ben Meadows, but they don't sell it anymore) www.forestry-suppliers.com, and dye the increment with the chemical. This chemical will dye certain parts of the wood (the lignin) a particular color while it does not stick to the other parts of the wood, therefore making summer wood (the large part of the ring) contrast with the winter wood (the smaller part of the ring) so that the rings can easily be seen.

+ + +

Falsehood. There is no such thing as winterwood, since a tree does not grow in winter. There is "earlywood" and "latewood" or "springwood" and "summerwood"

+ + +

3. Boring an increment will very likely not do damage to the tree as long as you keep your increment borer clean (e.g. treat it with a bleach solution to kill any pathenogens) prior to boring the hole. If you are really concerned about it, paint a little of this same bleach solution along where the cambium meets the wood. Of course the only area where fungi can attack a tree is the growing section of the tree (the cambium), the interior wood is dead.

+ + +

Big falsehood. Fungi can attack any part of a tree. Just about the only place where a tree can mount a serious defense is the cambium. The interior wood of a tree is not necessarily dead

+ + +

There are other "stains" and such that may discolor or decay the wood, but in general, as long as there is enough structural integrity in the dead wood to support the tree and the living tissue is healthy, the tree will continue to grow (although more slowly at this size).

+ + +

The tree will continue to grow even while dying. Only when it is totally dead will growth stop. Trees can take a lot of abuse. Does not mean it is good for them

PvR

For the sake of saving time, I will say that there's always a "fact
checker" in
every crowd (usually an academidiot), which keeps us honest and on
point,
but is kind of a pain-in-the ass.

For the record, "P" is correct on everything he stated below, except:

1. That wood itself IS dead, and is not alive (although there may be
something
living amongst it).

and...

2. That a tree without healthy tissue will keep growing. In fact, if a
tree has only
unhealthy tissue - it will not grow. It will die before it puts on
another year's worth of
growth.

I still stand firm on my opinion that using an increment borer is safe
for a tree and
will not likely cause damage, fungal or otherwise. I was trying to keep
this simple
and based it on memory and experiences (not always flawless). Thanks
for pointing
out my incorrect termnology and lack of specificifity, "P".

(what, am I publishing an article for forestry source or something?)
Geoff Kegerreis



P van Rijckevorsel wrote:

Geoff Kegerreis schreefThe
truth about finding a sugar maple age.2. Some advice below
this post has suggested that diffuse porous (wood without
vessels) wood

+ + +

Falsehood. Diffuse porous wood has vessels that are more or
less the same size throughout the growth ring.

+ + +

is not easily aged by taking a increment sample with a
increment borer. This has some validity to it. It's
sometimes tough. Personally, I have tried to get the age of
sugar maples, and it is my opinion that it makes a
significant difference what area you are in and what season
it is (because sugar maples produce lots of sap in
spring-early summer). Using an increment borer, I would
suggest that it would be best in fall to make the core and
get some increment bore dye from forestry suppliers (I'd
suggest Ben Meadows, but they don't sell it anymore)
www.forestry-suppliers.com, and dye the increment with the
chemical. This chemical will dye certain parts of the wood
(the lignin) a particular color while it does not stick to
the other parts of the wood, therefore making summer wood
(the large part of the ring) contrast with the winter wood
(the smaller part of the ring) so that the rings can easily
be seen.

+ + +

Falsehood. There is no such thing as winterwood, since a
tree does not grow in winter. There is "earlywood" and
"latewood" or "springwood" and "summerwood"

+ + +

3. Boring an increment will very likely not do damage to
the tree as long as you keep your increment borer clean
(e.g. treat it with a bleach solution to kill any
pathenogens) prior to boring the hole. If you are really
concerned about it, paint a little of this same bleach
solution along where the cambium meets the wood. Of course
the only area where fungi can attack a tree is the growing
section of the tree (the cambium), the interior wood is
dead.

+ + +

Big falsehood. Fungi can attack any part of a tree. Just
about the only place where a tree can mount a serious
defense is the cambium. The interior wood of a tree is not
necessarily dead

+ + +

There are other "stains" and such that may discolor or
decay the wood, but in general, as long as there is enough
structural integrity in the dead wood to support the tree
and the living tissue is healthy, the tree will continue to
grow (although more slowly at this size).

+ + +

The tree will continue to grow even while dying. Only when
it is totally dead will growth stop. Trees can take a lot of
abuse. Does not mean it is good for them

PvR

Geoff Kegerreis schreef
For the sake of saving time, I will say that there's always a "fact checker"
in every crowd (usually an academidiot), which keeps us honest and on point,
but is kind of a pain-in-the ass.

For the record, "P" is correct on everything he stated below, except:
1. That wood itself IS dead, and is not alive (although there may be
something living amongst it).

+ + +
Any such pronouncement is necessarily inaccurate, you might as well say that
people are dead since several of their parts are dead (like nails and hair).
Some elements of wood die within months of being formed, others go on for
decades. It is perfectly silly to say that wood is dead as soon as some of
its elements are dead. Wood can remain part of the living system of the tree
for as long as the tree lives. Depends on the tree species. In some species
the interior wood will be dead after a tree passes a certain stage.
+ + +

and...
2. That a tree without healthy tissue will keep growing. In fact, if a
tree has only unhealthy tissue - it will not grow. It will die before it
puts on another year's worth of growth.

+ + +
It seems there is not that much difference with what I said: "The tree will
continue to grow even while dying. Only when it is totally dead will growth
stop." Trees are strongly compartementalized: look at the bristlecone pines.
+ + +

I still stand firm on my opinion that using an increment borer is safe for a
tree and will not likely cause damage, fungal or otherwise. I was trying to
keep this simple and based it on memory and experiences (not always
flawless).
Thanks for pointing out my incorrect termnology and lack of specificifity,
"P". (what, am I publishing an article for forestry source or something?)
Geoff Kegerreis

+ + +
You were proclaiming "The truth about finding a sugar maple age" and there
are always people who take such things seriously .
PvR

PS you wouldn't want to see me critizing an article for a forestry source or
something
:^)