I know a lot of loggers and the ones I know are fine men. They work hard,
love their wife and children and are otherwise decent people. In fact, I
also know a lot of Ivy League well to do people. If I had to choose between
two picnics, one with loggers I know or a second with the Ivy League types,
I would choose the former.

I thought twice about dignifying the post that 'all loggers suck' but I
couldn't let the good men I know and have known be so disrespected. One
should never disparage a whole group of people based on the actions of a
few. Judge people as individuals on the content of their character and the
actions they take not by the actions of others who might share the same
profession.

ddm, Consulting Forester

"D McKenney" wrote in message
et...
I know a lot of loggers and the ones I know are fine men. They work hard,
love their wife and children and are otherwise decent people. In fact, I
also know a lot of Ivy League well to do people. If I had to choose
between
two picnics, one with loggers I know or a second with the Ivy League
types,
I would choose the former.


Loggers are less prone to use propaganda and the party line, as most
foresters do- so concerned with their phony idea of professional behavior.
Here in Mass. you can hardly ever get foresters to discuss reality. Loggers
are good at discussing reality.



I thought twice about dignifying the post that 'all loggers suck' but I
couldn't let the good men I know and have known be so disrespected. One
should never disparage a whole group of people based on the actions of a
few. Judge people as individuals on the content of their character and the
actions they take not by the actions of others who might share the same
profession.

Loggers are in the business of cutting trees down, they don't usually make
the big decisions- they usually aren't responsible for the really bad stuff
going on out in the woods- it's more often the foresters, lumber companies
and idiot state burreacrats with idiot state laws that allow and help to
create the naughty stuff. Loggers are just trying to get by. Blaming them is
like blaming the foot soldiers when a battle is lost- don't blame them,
blame the officers and politicians.


ddm, Consulting Forester

In article , foresterSPAM-
writes:

Loggers are in the business of cutting trees down, they don't usually make
the big decisions- they usually aren't responsible for the really bad stuff
going on out in the woods- it's more often the foresters, lumber companies
and idiot state burreacrats with idiot state laws that allow and help to
create the naughty stuff.

Joe, what is with this mental block that you have? The responsibility
for managing the land always starts and ends with the property owner. If
somebody is making a mess in the woods, you don't have to look any
farther than the name on the deed to find out who is responsible.

So what is the deal? They write your paychecks, so you don't want to
badmouth the property owner?

--
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money."
-- Alexis de Tocquevile

Larry Caldwell wrote:

In article , foresterSPAM-
writes:



Loggers are in the business of cutting trees down, they don't usually make
the big decisions- they usually aren't responsible for the really bad stuff
going on out in the woods- it's more often the foresters, lumber companies
and idiot state burreacrats with idiot state laws that allow and help to
create the naughty stuff.



Joe, what is with this mental block that you have? The responsibility
for managing the land always starts and ends with the property owner.


The responsibility begins and ends with whoever initiates and writes the
contract. Around here, 7 out of 10 times that person is a mill
forester/procurer or a logger, not a landowner or his/her forester.
It's like letting the buyer of your house write the sale contract and
pay whatever he/she wants. Totally nuts! But that's the way it is, and
that's the way the mills and timber beasts like it.

It's also the way the state burros like it - because that's the way the
mills and timber beasts like it. Here in Massachusetts, you have to
file a cutting plan with the state burros if you're going to cut more
than 25 Mbf or 50 cords. Anyone can prepare the cutting plan! You
don't even have to know how to write because the burros will help you if
you can't.

Of course this goes against 300 years of common law regarding agency and
agents, but the burros, mill owners and timber beasts like it this way.
They like being the state-approved agents of the landowners they're
ripping off.

KD

"K Davies" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Larry Caldwell wrote:

In article , foresterSPAM-
writes:



Loggers are in the business of cutting trees down, they don't usually
make
the big decisions- they usually aren't responsible for the really bad
stuff
going on out in the woods- it's more often the foresters, lumber
companies
and idiot state burreacrats with idiot state laws that allow and help to
create the naughty stuff.



Joe, what is with this mental block that you have? The responsibility
for managing the land always starts and ends with the property owner.


The responsibility begins and ends with whoever initiates and writes the
contract. Around here, 7 out of 10 times that person is a mill
forester/procurer or a logger, not a landowner or his/her forester.
It's like letting the buyer of your house write the sale contract and
pay whatever he/she wants. Totally nuts! But that's the way it is, and
that's the way the mills and timber beasts like it.

It's also the way the state burros like it - because that's the way the
mills and timber beasts like it. Here in Massachusetts, you have to
file a cutting plan with the state burros if you're going to cut more
than 25 Mbf or 50 cords. Anyone can prepare the cutting plan! You
don't even have to know how to write because the burros will help you if
you can't.



Really- the last time I visited the forestry burro office- I saw a
disservice burro explaining a cutting plan to a guy who looked like he only
comes out of the woods for salt. G Then, I watched the burro tell the guy,
"put your X right here". G



Of course this goes against 300 years of common law regarding agency and
agents, but the burros, mill owners and timber beasts like it this way.
They like being the state-approved agents of the landowners they're
ripping off.


Then when we expose all this stuff- it's as if we're discussing quantum
mechanics. It's so far off the charts of the burros and industry, they don't
have a clue and obviously don't want a clue. What's unfortunate is that the
top burros and top academics also don't have a clue.


KD