When it comes to computers and the net, I've been on the cutting edge- but
when it comes to GPS, I've been Luddite- not wanting to think of another
thing to spend money on that I could live without.

But, recently another forester in the area gave me a demonstration of his
GPS unit and how it can interact with the Mass. GIS Maptech program which
has all the topo maps of Mass. on CD and a fine program to view that stuff-
which is GIS compatible.

But as I look at the models available, I'm not sure what to buy. One feature
on the better ones that looks indispensable is a digital compass!

Any suggestions? Anyone using them regularly? Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?

I'd like to find one that will help me find beatifull, rich, available
women. G
--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com

Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?


With all brands, have a backup plan for the day. You never know when the
satellites will stop cooperating with your unit. It is especially frustrating
when doing a large, complicated traverse to have the thing stop taking points
when you are almost done. Even the expensive Trimbles with software predicting
prime satellite reception seems mostly fiction.

Jerry Mohlman wrote:
Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?


With all brands, have a backup plan for the day. You never know when the
satellites will stop cooperating with your unit. It is especially frustrating
when doing a large, complicated traverse to have the thing stop taking points
when you are almost done. Even the expensive Trimbles with software predicting
prime satellite reception seems mostly fiction.

I'd highly recommend lurking on the sci.geo.satelite-nav group for a
while. It's a bit garmin-centric but well stocked with gps pros. It's a
complex field. Just finding out if you're where WAAS reception is good
makes a big difference.

Until you get into the high-end of gps, you'll probably still be working
in the 3 meter uncertainty range. NOT good enough for a traverse but OK
for finding most features which would make it onto a quad and definitely
good enough to locate yourself on an orthophoto. The mapping part of
gps is a bit of a misnomer. Very few units are any good at making maps,
though most of the new ones have a map in them with varying degrees of
usefulness. They're best at street locations, even driving directions.
There not worth much off the road. The better ones are based on Tiger
line files and aren't well suited for foresters needs.

And location of babes was left out of all the models I'm familiar with.

"Joe Zorzin" wrote in message ...

But as I look at the models available, I'm not sure what to buy. One feature
on the better ones that looks indispensable is a digital compass!

Any suggestions? Anyone using them regularly? Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?

I'd like to find one that will help me find beatifull, rich, available
women. G

You're right about one thing, they all have a tonne of bells and
whistles. I use one on a daily basis at work, usually for tracking
down hotspots from IR scans, or keeping track of equipment caches and
pump sites. You'll see a lot of figures quoted as far as accuracy
goes, but if you can get within 50 ft of the spot you're looking for,
you're generally doing really good. Sometimes they are even more
accurate than that. We had a hell of a time this summer on one fire
though, it seems that the military was screwing with the system while
things were going down in Afghanistan. Our rides were having a hard
time finding our helipads that we got dropped off at; coordinates
would change over our shift. A couple of other things to watch out
for: Map datum: make sure everyone is one the same page, or you might
find yourself a ways of course; and navigational units: usually have
the between several sets of units, again, make sure you're on the same
page as your GIS or others you are getting coordinates from (dd mm ss
/ dd mm.mm / dd.mm) But that's small biscuits, just things to be aware
of.

They are handy, no doubt. The digital compass is something that we
didn't bother with. Just take the bearing off the GPS unit and use
your magnetic compass. It's hard to shoot a line with the GPS unit,
and you tend to walk with your head down looking at the screen, which
leads to a not-so-straight transect through the woods. As you pick up
and lose satellites, the bearing will even change as the new sats get
lumped into the calculation, leading to even more wiggly walks.

We used several different models by Garmin and Magellan... I
personally preferred all of the Garmin models over the Magellan.


As for all the rich, beautiful women, you'll find them he

45 degrees 58.446 minutes N
66 degrees 43.102 minutes W

good luck! Scott

Any suggestions? Anyone using them regularly? Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?

Joe,

I sprang for a Garmin Legend last fall. I now consider it indespensible. It
goes everywhere with me just like the compass and loggers tape.

I find that when used with the Maptech product I save a lot of time locating
parcels in the boonies. No more hunting for 'K' tags or wondering where
section lines cross the road.

It really helps to buy Garmin's topo map set to download to the GPS. The basic
information in the machine provides little or no help any distance from major
roads (blank screen). You still need maptech though, for land net because the
garmin map product has no section info. May not make any difference in your
area because of the lack of a public land survey.

If you get one you'll be hooked and save time. You can transfer field info to
the maps from the GPS with much greater accuracy than scetching. My experience
has been that the unit is pretty damn accurate ... in the range of 1/2 chain if
used carefully. One very cool thing is, if you do good office setup, no more
pacing and measuring distance. You just go to the point.

Don't pay for a compass. Your silva is probably better and easier to use.
Besides, as long as you're moving, the GPS gives you a heading.

Have fun. They're a great tool. Every forester should have one. You'll get
hooked.

The units are around $200 and the mapping packages $100 apiece.

Larry

"LRLake" wrote in message
...
Any suggestions? Anyone using them regularly? Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?

Joe,

I sprang for a Garmin Legend last fall. I now consider it indespensible.
It
goes everywhere with me just like the compass and loggers tape.

I find that when used with the Maptech product I save a lot of time
locating
parcels in the boonies. No more hunting for 'K' tags or wondering where
section lines cross the road.

It really helps to buy Garmin's topo map set to download to the GPS. The
basic
information in the machine provides little or no help any distance from
major
roads (blank screen). You still need maptech though, for land net because
the
garmin map product has no section info. May not make any difference in
your
area because of the lack of a public land survey.

If you get one you'll be hooked and save time. You can transfer field
info to
the maps from the GPS with much greater accuracy than scetching. My
experience
has been that the unit is pretty damn accurate ... in the range of 1/2
chain if
used carefully. One very cool thing is, if you do good office setup, no
more
pacing and measuring distance. You just go to the point.

Don't pay for a compass. Your silva is probably better and easier to use.

The compass feature is the one I'm most concerned about. As you say, it may
not be all that usefull, especially for those of us who have used a hand
compass for a long time. My understanding from doing some reading is that
there are 2 type of GPS compass- the simpler type just simulated a compass
by the info it gets from the satellittes. The others are a genuine compass
which will work even if you can't get a satellitte signal. With the Garmin
76S Map unit, the unit must be held vertically to get a signal so that kind
of negates having a compass built in as to see the compass you want to hold
it horizontally. The Magellan Platinum's built in compass is "3 axis" so you
can hold it anyway whithout losing the signal. I'm tempted to spend extra to
get the compass since if I don't, I'll probably find out later that I wish I
had. My main interest in the GPS is to locate cruise plots. Locating them
with hand compass and pacing really sucks. Radio Shack has Magellan and they
have a 30 day no questions asked return policy. Best Buy carries Garmen but
I didn't think to ask about a return policy. I really don't mind spending a
lot for a very usefull tool. When I buy computers, I buy the top of the
line- it's worth it.


Besides, as long as you're moving, the GPS gives you a heading.

Have fun. They're a great tool. Every forester should have one. You'll
get
hooked.

The units are around $200 and the mapping packages $100 apiece.


I've got Maptech on my computer- too bad no GPS can download Maptech contour
map info (of course they can dowload points and tracks, etc.)- you have to
buy the map software that the GPS company sells. Nice little after market
gimick!


Larry

Joe Zorzin wrote:
"LRLake" wrote in message
...

Any suggestions? Anyone using them regularly? Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?

Joe,

I sprang for a Garmin Legend last fall. I now consider it indespensible.

It

goes everywhere with me just like the compass and loggers tape.

I find that when used with the Maptech product I save a lot of time

locating

parcels in the boonies. No more hunting for 'K' tags or wondering where
section lines cross the road.

It really helps to buy Garmin's topo map set to download to the GPS. The

basic

information in the machine provides little or no help any distance from

major

roads (blank screen). You still need maptech though, for land net because

the

garmin map product has no section info. May not make any difference in

your

area because of the lack of a public land survey.

If you get one you'll be hooked and save time. You can transfer field

info to

the maps from the GPS with much greater accuracy than scetching. My

experience

has been that the unit is pretty damn accurate ... in the range of 1/2

chain if

used carefully. One very cool thing is, if you do good office setup, no

more

pacing and measuring distance. You just go to the point.

Don't pay for a compass. Your silva is probably better and easier to use.


The compass feature is the one I'm most concerned about. As you say, it may
not be all that usefull, especially for those of us who have used a hand
compass for a long time. My understanding from doing some reading is that
there are 2 type of GPS compass- the simpler type just simulated a compass
by the info it gets from the satellittes. The others are a genuine compass
which will work even if you can't get a satellitte signal. With the Garmin
76S Map unit, the unit must be held vertically to get a signal so that kind
of negates having a compass built in as to see the compass you want to hold
it horizontally. The Magellan Platinum's built in compass is "3 axis" so you
can hold it anyway whithout losing the signal. I'm tempted to spend extra to
get the compass since if I don't, I'll probably find out later that I wish I
had. My main interest in the GPS is to locate cruise plots. Locating them
with hand compass and pacing really sucks. Radio Shack has Magellan and they
have a 30 day no questions asked return policy. Best Buy carries Garmen but
I didn't think to ask about a return policy. I really don't mind spending a
lot for a very usefull tool. When I buy computers, I buy the top of the
line- it's worth it.


The magellan compass is functional but IS NOT the same as that ol' Silva
ranger. Depending on the settings, the heading might be the direction
you are walking, ie. the last several track points averaged. You can set
it to operate like a hand compass, but the shape and angle you hold it
at don't really lend themselves to the same uses.
After getting the magellan I've found that there are a few things the
76S probably does better - things like an altimeter that actually reads
altitude, rather than averaging it with what the database says ought to
be elevation. After you get used to the ins and outs of the different
datums, you might realize - you just want to know what's real...
Also, the Magellan base map software, Mapsend Topo, is pretty good. It's
still based on tiger files though, which often mislocate country roads
and rivers. Streets are OK though.

Mike, which Magellan do you have, the Platinum? What are "tiger files"? I
think the only way I'm going to know which to buy is to buy both, then
return the lesser of the two.

How does inclement weather effect GPS?

--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com

"mhagen" wrote in message
...
Joe Zorzin wrote:
"LRLake" wrote in message
...

Any suggestions? Anyone using them regularly? Is GPS really as good as
it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?

Joe,

I sprang for a Garmin Legend last fall. I now consider it
indespensible.

It

goes everywhere with me just like the compass and loggers tape.

I find that when used with the Maptech product I save a lot of time

locating

parcels in the boonies. No more hunting for 'K' tags or wondering where
section lines cross the road.

It really helps to buy Garmin's topo map set to download to the GPS.
The

basic

information in the machine provides little or no help any distance from

major

roads (blank screen). You still need maptech though, for land net
because

the

garmin map product has no section info. May not make any difference in

your

area because of the lack of a public land survey.

If you get one you'll be hooked and save time. You can transfer field

info to

the maps from the GPS with much greater accuracy than scetching. My

experience

has been that the unit is pretty damn accurate ... in the range of 1/2

chain if

used carefully. One very cool thing is, if you do good office setup, no

more

pacing and measuring distance. You just go to the point.

Don't pay for a compass. Your silva is probably better and easier to
use.


The compass feature is the one I'm most concerned about. As you say, it
may
not be all that usefull, especially for those of us who have used a hand
compass for a long time. My understanding from doing some reading is
that
there are 2 type of GPS compass- the simpler type just simulated a
compass
by the info it gets from the satellittes. The others are a genuine
compass
which will work even if you can't get a satellitte signal. With the
Garmin
76S Map unit, the unit must be held vertically to get a signal so that
kind
of negates having a compass built in as to see the compass you want to
hold
it horizontally. The Magellan Platinum's built in compass is "3 axis" so
you
can hold it anyway whithout losing the signal. I'm tempted to spend
extra to
get the compass since if I don't, I'll probably find out later that I
wish I
had. My main interest in the GPS is to locate cruise plots. Locating
them
with hand compass and pacing really sucks. Radio Shack has Magellan and
they
have a 30 day no questions asked return policy. Best Buy carries Garmen
but
I didn't think to ask about a return policy. I really don't mind
spending a
lot for a very usefull tool. When I buy computers, I buy the top of the
line- it's worth it.


The magellan compass is functional but IS NOT the same as that ol' Silva
ranger. Depending on the settings, the heading might be the direction
you are walking, ie. the last several track points averaged. You can set
it to operate like a hand compass, but the shape and angle you hold it
at don't really lend themselves to the same uses.
After getting the magellan I've found that there are a few things the
76S probably does better - things like an altimeter that actually reads
altitude, rather than averaging it with what the database says ought to
be elevation. After you get used to the ins and outs of the different
datums, you might realize - you just want to know what's real...
Also, the Magellan base map software, Mapsend Topo, is pretty good. It's
still based on tiger files though, which often mislocate country roads
and rivers. Streets are OK though.

Joe Zorzin wrote:
Mike, which Magellan do you have, the Platinum? What are "tiger files"? I
think the only way I'm going to know which to buy is to buy both, then
return the lesser of the two.

How does inclement weather effect GPS?

--
Joe Zorzin

I've got the Platinum with a 64 MG flash card and the Topo cd. I'm only
using ~32 MG and fit nearly half the state of Washington in. That's a
lot of contour lines. With a software upgrade, you can back up routes to
the card. It's a fine gadget, though if it also contained a cell phone
and an espresso maker it'd also be cool.

TIGER files are an older GIS line file type that was used for the
nationwide scale census maps. They aren't as accurate as USGS DRG's and
occasionally do odd things such as drawing rivers running over hills and
roads. They seem to be in all the commercial map databases.

The most basic drawback of any recreational gps is that you can't input
your own base maps. The drawbacks of the Meridian are that batteries
only seem to last about 8 hours if it's on the whole time, there's no
"area" function (there is in most garmins), and the elevation reading is
a blend of actual and datum elevation. (not a bad thing if you have
varying barometric pressure)

The 76S is a better tool, but not that much better. There are ways to
get around the limitations of the meridian. When I download the tracks
into say, Mapmaker or Terrain tools, I can compute area and minor errors
in elevation are not a problem. The temptation is to ignore the
fuzziness of the actual data points.

Joe I used the original garmin etrek with my laptop and maptech
software. Its cool. You can be driving down a road anf tell pretty
close when you cross a section line using the th 1:24,000 topos which
show section lines. I can do tracks and throw them up on the laptop
and calculate area. This christmass I stepped up to the etrek Legend.
It allows you to do area calculations on it without using the laptop.
The compass function burns alot of battery power. They advertise the
etrek as 22 hours of battery time but it aint going to happen. I dont
see the point of the electronic compass. The legend is on the internet
at 198$ and if the rebates havent expired you can get a 50$ rebate. i
bought 2. They have a base map and all kinds of other bells and
whistles. The legend has WAAS but I have never got it to lock onto
that sattellite. I think they have to be numbered 35 or so higher. The
etrek only carry two batteries but you get a computer cable with the
legend. The auto power adapter is like 35$. Why did you think a
digital compass is invaluable. I like to set gps to "goto" the north
pole"calculated" as I never been there and then I can tell my magnetic
variance for where I am at. You just have to move a little to get a
reading. Compasses are too cheap to want to burn batteries on your GPS
IMHO.On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 04:19:29 -0500, "Joe Zorzin"
wrote:

When it comes to computers and the net, I've been on the cutting edge- but
when it comes to GPS, I've been Luddite- not wanting to think of another
thing to spend money on that I could live without.

But, recently another forester in the area gave me a demonstration of his
GPS unit and how it can interact with the Mass. GIS Maptech program which
has all the topo maps of Mass. on CD and a fine program to view that stuff-
which is GIS compatible.

But as I look at the models available, I'm not sure what to buy. One feature
on the better ones that looks indispensable is a digital compass!

Any suggestions? Anyone using them regularly? Is GPS really as good as it
sounds or are there things you don't like about it?

I'd like to find one that will help me find beatifull, rich, available
women. G
--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com

I hear that we had a parcel noone had been on since it was bought in
1963. Our forsters couldnt find it but I popped the lines using
maptech and had all the corners plotted and just walked it with my
etek. The maptech topos are old but that helps find old churches and
graveyards that might get dropped on the new topos when they come out.

I find that when used with the Maptech product I save a lot of time locating
parcels in the boonies. No more hunting for 'K' tags or wondering where
section lines cross the road.

I dont have garmis software. How does it help you if it doesnt show
section lines? Section lines are the greatest thing about maptech.

It really helps to buy Garmin's topo map set to download to the GPS. The basic
information in the machine provides little or no help any distance from major
roads (blank screen). You still need maptech though, for land net because the
garmin map product has no section info. May not make any difference in your
area because of the lack of a public land survey.

I agree My Legend eats batteries. Its a pain to have to carry them and
as soon as you forget you are powerless, figuratively and literally.
My old original etrek does better on battery life but the screen is
1/2 the resolution and cant calculate area, or all the cellestial
stuff. The etrek with the compasses just spit the batteries out and
burp. a waste. I think you get a barometer too on the one with the
compas and a bunch of stuff for pilots. If you stay in your vehicle
with a power cord you'll be alright but if not carry lots of duracells


Don't pay for a compass. Your silva is probably better and easier to use.
Besides, as long as you're moving, the GPS gives you a heading.

Have fun. They're a great tool. Every forester should have one. You'll get
hooked.

The units are around $200 and the mapping packages $100 apiece.

Larry

Well, I'm beginning to get a grip on this subject.

It looks like the built in compass isn't worth it- and it runs the batteries
down. I have a very nice Suunto compass I've had for over 20 years and it's
very accurate. Apparently the digital compasses in GPS units are at best
only good to within 2 degrees. My Suunto is good to probably half a degree.

I need to be able to install top map info from the CDROMs sold by the
company, either Garmin or Magellan. So, some memory is needed- but since I'm
only working on one property at a time and mostly not more than a few
hundred acres, I don't need a vast amount of memory. The Legend has 8 megs
which ought to be sufficient for a few hundred acres.

The batteries lasting a full day is important.

Having road maps of the nation and nautical stuff and a barometer is of no
concern to me.

Cost is important although I'll pay more for useful features.

After I finish work on each property, I could easily reset the unit as I'll
be storing the data on my Maptech on my Dell and/or laptop.

So, as of the moment it looks like the Garmin Legend is the best bet. The
Ben Meadows catalog has it for $235 and there is a $50 rebate offer in
effect until July. If I buy at Best Buy, there is a 30 day return policy.

JZ