I ran across this website a while ago.

http://www.andyrutledge.com/worlds2/black_begin2.html

He appears to be implying that some of these monster black pines are
grown then chopped back and new limbs totally grafted on. Is this
typical in a Japanese bonsai nursey?

Are these thread grafted limbs cut from the plant and moved to a new
location or are those shoots grown with bud grafts?

I guess I'm curious because I found a Pinus Densiflora at a local hip
furniture store with a 4 inch cliper trunk in a 10 gallon container.
it has been trained into a upswept topiary style, but might be usable.
The best part is the clearance price at 60 dollars. My question is in
the next few years would be feasable to graft new shoots on the lower
part of the trunk, I will certainly practice grafting on some other
stuff before I attempt to do anything to this one.

--
Ethan Smith, Columbus, Ohio
USDA Zone 6, Sunset 35 & 41
but wait around, it may feel more like zone 2 or even 9?

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Ethan - I have two thoughts for you:
1. If this pine has been indoors in a furniture store for any length of
time, it is probably dead, or close to it.
2. Grafting on pines is one of the more exotic procedures in horticulture.
It can be done, but only by experts. The usual equipment includes a room in
which the humidity is kept very high and the temperature can be carefully
monitored. I only know of a handful of people who have been successful at
it - and half of this group are deceased.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Smith"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:26 PM
Subject: [IBC] Shoot grafting


I ran across this website a while ago.

http://www.andyrutledge.com/worlds2/black_begin2.html

He appears to be implying that some of these monster black pines are
grown then chopped back and new limbs totally grafted on. Is this
typical in a Japanese bonsai nursey?

Are these thread grafted limbs cut from the plant and moved to a new
location or are those shoots grown with bud grafts?

I guess I'm curious because I found a Pinus Densiflora at a local hip
furniture store with a 4 inch cliper trunk in a 10 gallon container.
it has been trained into a upswept topiary style, but might be usable.
The best part is the clearance price at 60 dollars. My question is in
the next few years would be feasable to graft new shoots on the lower
part of the trunk, I will certainly practice grafting on some other
stuff before I attempt to do anything to this one.

--
Ethan Smith, Columbus, Ohio
USDA Zone 6, Sunset 35 & 41
but wait around, it may feel more like zone 2 or even 9?

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Marty,
Well I guess I wasn't clear enough on the tree, it is at a high end
furniture store that has a garden section outside and carries a nice
selection of specimen plants. They also have some really nice Japanese
Maples. So it certainly isn't dead. I'll get some pictures of it here
soon and post them somewhere so get some opinions of it's usability.

-Ethan



1. If this pine has been indoors in a furniture store for any length of
time, it is probably dead, or close to it.
/www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

There is a lot of information on this technique in the new Pine Book from
Stone Lantern.
Patrick DeSilva studied it in Japan and is demonstrating it here. He came to
my nursery with
Black Pine that are in the middle of the process and with pictures of the
whole process...it
was fascinating.
Pauline Muth
Zone 4

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf
Of Marty Haber
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 4:18 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Shoot grafting


Ethan - I have two thoughts for you:
1. If this pine has been indoors in a furniture store for any length of
time, it is probably dead, or close to it.
2. Grafting on pines is one of the more exotic procedures in horticulture.
It can be done, but only by experts. The usual equipment includes a room in
which the humidity is kept very high and the temperature can be carefully
monitored. I only know of a handful of people who have been successful at
it - and half of this group are deceased.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Smith"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:26 PM
Subject: [IBC] Shoot grafting


I ran across this website a while ago.

http://www.andyrutledge.com/worlds2/black_begin2.html

He appears to be implying that some of these monster black pines are
grown then chopped back and new limbs totally grafted on. Is this
typical in a Japanese bonsai nursey?

Are these thread grafted limbs cut from the plant and moved to a new
location or are those shoots grown with bud grafts?

I guess I'm curious because I found a Pinus Densiflora at a local hip
furniture store with a 4 inch cliper trunk in a 10 gallon container.
it has been trained into a upswept topiary style, but might be usable.
The best part is the clearance price at 60 dollars. My question is in
the next few years would be feasable to graft new shoots on the lower
part of the trunk, I will certainly practice grafting on some other
stuff before I attempt to do anything to this one.

--
Ethan Smith, Columbus, Ohio
USDA Zone 6, Sunset 35 & 41
but wait around, it may feel more like zone 2 or even 9?


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

What a great deal for a fat pine! How tall is it?
Marty is right that grafting pines is difficult to do
successfully. However, to say it can only be done by experts is a
bit of hyperbole. Even experts were novices at one time. Learn
what you can about grafting pines and give it a try. Be prepared
for a high rate of failure, but the only way to become an expert
is through study and practice.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Haber

2. Grafting on pines is one of the more exotic procedures in
horticulture.
It can be done, but only by experts. The usual equipment
includes a room in which the humidity is kept very high and the
temperature can be carefully monitored. I only know of a handful
of people who have been successful at it - and half of this group
are deceased.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Smith"

I ran across this website a while ago.
http://www.andyrutledge.com/worlds2/black_begin2.html
He appears to be implying that some of these monster black pines
are grown then chopped back and new limbs totally grafted on. Is
this typical in a Japanese bonsai nursey?

Are these thread grafted limbs cut from the plant and moved to a
new location or are those shoots grown with bud grafts?

I guess I'm curious because I found a Pinus Densiflora at a local
hip furniture store with a 4 inch cliper trunk in a 10 gallon
container. it has been trained into a upswept topiary style, but
might be usable. The best part is the clearance price at 60
dollars. My question is in the next few years would be feasable
to graft new shoots on the lower part of the trunk, I will
certainly practice grafting on some other stuff before I attempt
to do anything to this one.
--
Ethan Smith, Columbus, Ohio
USDA Zone 6, Sunset 35 & 41

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I am two for three using approach grafts from the same tree (The failure
involved aborting the graft after trying to include my finger in the graft).
They have taken a couple of years to fully attach on the Scots pine. Since
I have not had much luck with traditional grafts in the past, I would
suggest that approach grafts are fairly easy, even for pines. Thread grafts
on maples seem to be working fairly well for me as well.

Marty
Spokane, WA

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi everyone.

Well I went down and picked up the Densiflora that I mentioned earlier
in this thread. I posted pictures of it over at..

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthread.php?t=13338

I think it has potential.

And I think my imagination got the best of me because it is about 2.5
inch cliper and an 8 gallon. Not nearly the beast that I thought from
my intial visit. But our minds sometimes work like that...that which
we desire always seems exagerated in the right ways.

let me know what you think about it's potential. I'm not sure where to
go with it.

thanks

-Ethan

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Ethan Smith wrote:

Hi
It looks like grafted just under the umbrella
when you will clean the roots and neabari most
probably will get some more inches in lenght
and according how you will position in a pot
will probably reach the illusion to be slender ..
trimming the crown ( underneath and leaving
ramification grow on top of the umbrella) can add
some more lightness to the whole ..but it
takes time and correct know how

it is a very nice shaped umbrella and why not
give a try to maakes it look like a Stone pine

Get Informed how to care and cut needles and
trim branches .. Michael Persiano just published
a wonderful book about pines .. that contains
all you need to know about ... you do not cure
nor trim all the pines the same way

read it before puttings your hands at work on
your pine .it is a real friendly advice !


Tiziano