Hi All,

I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit, so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will it survive in a shed over the winter?

Thanks,
Steve
Philadelphia, Pa

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Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi All,

I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit, so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will it survive in a shed over the winter?

Thanks,
Steve
Philadelphia, Pa

If azalea grow in peoples' yards in Philly, by all means put
them in the ground. You have no worries with the holly and
the elm; they're hardy.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jim:

Two years ago I almost lost a 50-year old Ulmus davidiana to an 8+ week freeze. I too thought they were hardy. );-) All trees have a limit, and we all need to understand the impact of our regional weather and wintering methods on our trees.

I lost every needle on a Pinus thunbergiana "Mikawa" during the same freeze. Go figure...

Method Used: cold shed
Alternative Method: White co-poly covered bench; cold garage.

The difference is that co-poly warms the mulch bed by day and slowly cools at night. The shed remains quite cold.

Cordially,

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lewis
To:
Sent: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:40:01 -0400
Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil


Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi All,
I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit, so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will it survive in a shed over the winter?
Thanks,
Steve
Philadelphia, Pa

If azalea grow in peoples' yards in Philly, by all means put them in the ground. You have no worries with the holly and the elm; they're hardy.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi Michael,

This is an old one. You said:

Two years ago I almost lost a 50-year old Ulmus davidiana to an 8+
week freeze. I too thought they were hardy. );-) All trees have a
limit, and we all need to understand the impact of our regional
weather and wintering methods on our trees.

I lost every needle on a Pinus thunbergiana "Mikawa" during the same
freeze. Go figure...

Method Used: cold shed
Alternative Method: White co-poly covered bench; cold garage.

The difference is that co-poly warms the mulch bed by day and slowly
cools at night. The shed remains quite cold.


I couldn't tell whether you were recommending the the co-poly covered
bench or the shed. As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during
the day but the shed or garage would provide some insulation from the
cold ground.

Thanks,
Steve

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++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Steve,

I'm sure Michael will respond as to which he was recommending.

I would like to comment on your question, though:

As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during the day but the shed
or garage would provide some insulation from the cold ground.

It isn't the cold ground that your trees need protection from, it is the
cold air. The ground stays at a relatively even temperature, which is quite
a bit warmer than the air temperature, especially as one goes below the
surface a bit. Putting your trees on the ground and mulching around them
helps to connect them with the ground and keep their rootballs at ground
temperature. Roots are designed to live at ground temperature, not at the
much colder and widely fluctuating air temperature.

Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane, WA. Zone 5-ish

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Steve:

Roger makes a very good point: if you can leverage the ground temperature by wintering your trees under a bench, it is an excellent solution.

The idea of wintering via a cold shed was broached by Yoshimura in his landmark book, The Art of Growing and Caring for Miniature Trees. I winter my Japanese White Pines in the shed because extreme cold is not a problem, and I have grown weary of crawling under benches to check trees. );-)

To mitigate the effects of the cold air rushing beneath the shed and chilling the floor boards, I do the following;

1. Lay out sheets of foam board onto the floor boards in the shed. They are easily and inexpensively acquired from Home Depot.
2. Dump bags of dry cedar mulch onto the foam. This is usually 5 inches deep.
3. The bonsai are placed on the mulch.
4. The trees are drenched.
5. The root pads are covered with heavy black landscape fabric.
6. A chopstick is inserted through the fabric and into the root pad.
7. The pots are covered with cedar mulch--approximately 6-8 inches.

The shed is opened when the temperatures move into the mid 30s F. Once the temperatures drop and we enter a sustained winter freeze, nothing is done to the Japanese White Pines until the spring.

I also use this method for storing my Junipers. I do not recommend this approach for potted Buxus, Acer, Prunus, Ulmus, etc.

Cordially,

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Snipes
To:
Sent: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:49:45 -0700
Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil


Steve,

I'm sure Michael will respond as to which he was recommending.

I would like to comment on your question, though:

As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during the day but the shed or garage would provide some insulation from the cold ground.

It isn't the cold ground that your trees need protection from, it is the cold air. The ground stays at a relatively even temperature, which is quite a bit warmer than the air temperature, especially as one goes below the surface a bit. Putting your trees on the ground and mulching around them helps to connect them with the ground and keep their rootballs at ground temperature. Roots are designed to live at ground temperature, not at the much colder and widely fluctuating air temperature.

Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane, WA. Zone 5-ish
************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I hope that my recent post clarified this point.

The mulch, whether placed on pots under the bench or in a shed, minimized the freeze-thaw cycle.

My suggestion is that you speak to people in your region and determine what has worked for them. No wintering method is without risk.

Cordially,

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Peterson
To:
Cc:
Sent: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:36:45 -0400
Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil


Hi Michael,

This is an old one. You said:

Two years ago I almost lost a 50-year old Ulmus davidiana to an 8+ week freeze. I too thought they were hardy. );-) All trees have a limit, and we all need to understand the impact of our regional weather and wintering methods on our trees.

I lost every needle on a Pinus thunbergiana "Mikawa" during the same freeze. Go figure...

Method Used: cold shed
Alternative Method: White co-poly covered bench; cold garage.

The difference is that co-poly warms the mulch bed by day and slowly cools at night. The shed remains quite cold.


I couldn't tell whether you were recommending the the co-poly covered bench or the shed. As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during the day but the shed or garage would provide some insulation from the cold ground.

Thanks,
Steve


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Steve:

I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Our low is typically -2 degrees Fahrenheit, but this is not a sustained low.

Can you provide genus and species (Latin) for these trees to ensure the correct advice is offered? Some azaleas and elms are extremely hardy--many are not.

Also, what is your typical low where you live?

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Peterson
To:
Sent: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:55:46 -0700
Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil


Hi All,

I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from
nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't
repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant
them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them
for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit,
so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will
it survive in a shed over the winter?

Thanks,
Steve
Philadelphia, Pa

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++