I still don't understand exactly why so many people on this list dislike
serissa's.


1) Beginners like them because of the "thousand flowers", buy them,
and then pester me on my website about why they are dropping all
their leaves. And I have to be nice, and not say things like GOOD
RIDDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH. They are not good plants for beginners.
They are demoralizing. And they smell bad.

2) For nonbeginners, they are not inspiring bonsai material (except
if Suthin does them). Where is the trick in doing a bonsai from a
twiggy shrub with tiny leaves?????? Big deal. When I had one, I
actually wished it would die so I could buy something more worthwhile.

3) You can't say anything about them without first writing "Serrissa"
"Serrisa" and "Serissa" to remember how to spell the word. Then you
have to spell foetida. Forget the whole damn thing, people. Buy a
fig.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Frederick, MD

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Well, looks like we have hit a hot button in this bonsai list. Serissa are
an excellent tree to learn from and do make excellent uprights, forests,
etc.. It is comical that a beginner who got a serissa has kept it alive,
developed new ones from cuttings and has had some very positive comments from
several well known artists.

It appears that you are as intolerant of the serissa as we are of some of the
comments on this site on other topics. To label a tree as "trash" is a pity
if only that you cannot grow it well or make a Bonsai out of it.

I should say the same to people who grow twigs and claim to be experts or who
fail to show their trees in galleries on any site.

By your standard if one cannot grow a fig, it is trash and should be thrown
out. The 1,2,3,4,5,6 BS is just that too. You should be asking how did you
manage to keep it alive, propagate it, etc. Obviously, one bad experience
has tainted your opinion of a wonderful tree, and thus you are destroying
other peoples interest in it.

I for one do not discourage anyone from trying anything. They will learn from
the experience. If the narrow minded want only the pines, elms, figs,
junipers so be it but DO NOT insult those of us who can grow and love what
you cannot.

This is supposed to be a support forum the criticism is in appropriate.

Great job, to the successful serissa growers.

Richard Zieminski
Summerville, SC

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Hi, Richard.

I think the "I hate Serissa" club on this list is a good-humored way to let
newcomers know that many experts have troubles with this tree, and that
comments about its pros and cons are expressed with a strong sense of humor.
Frankly, I take them that way.

I have had all my serissas die, inexplicably, while all around them thrive.
I even, as a last try, got a lovely little one from Suthin, but no luck!

Frankly, we are jealous of those who succeed with this species. You can call
it "serissa envy", if you like.

Just don't take us too seriously!

Regards,

Bart
"Richard Zieminski" wrote in message
...
Well, looks like we have hit a hot button in this bonsai list. Serissa
are
an excellent tree to learn from and do make excellent uprights, forests,
etc.. It is comical that a beginner who got a serissa has kept it alive,
developed new ones from cuttings and has had some very positive comments
from
several well known artists.

It appears that you are as intolerant of the serissa as we are of some of
the
comments on this site on other topics. To label a tree as "trash" is a
pity
if only that you cannot grow it well or make a Bonsai out of it.

I should say the same to people who grow twigs and claim to be experts or
who
fail to show their trees in galleries on any site.

By your standard if one cannot grow a fig, it is trash and should be
thrown
out. The 1,2,3,4,5,6 BS is just that too. You should be asking how did
you
manage to keep it alive, propagate it, etc. Obviously, one bad experience
has tainted your opinion of a wonderful tree, and thus you are destroying
other peoples interest in it.

I for one do not discourage anyone from trying anything. They will learn
from
the experience. If the narrow minded want only the pines, elms, figs,
junipers so be it but DO NOT insult those of us who can grow and love what
you cannot.

This is supposed to be a support forum the criticism is in appropriate.

Great job, to the successful serissa growers.

Richard Zieminski
Summerville, SC


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Bart:

Humor may be the intent, but the individuals sounding off are the some of the
thin skinned people on the list who have caused the loss of several good
artists. These thin skinned people cannot take humor when directed at them,
but can dish out a wealth of BS.

All we ask is be even be fair and take what comes your way if you sling stuff
our way.

Also the tones vary and if it is humor, say so, or at least acknowledge that
someone has done what you cannot.

Bart the above is not directed at you, but at those who know who they are.

Keep on Bonsai :-)

Richard Zieminski
Summerville, SC
"if you have a problem ask someone who's mind is not clouded with knowledge"
- Dr. Zieminski

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Perhaps the real beauty of serissa lies in its utility in enabling certain
list contributors ample opportunity to post to the list in smug,
self-satisfied prose. Rarely have I seen a more vicious, self-serving
passive-aggressive post than the one that originated this current thread.
Well done, gentlemen,

David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email:


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf
Of Richard Zieminski
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:04 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Why I dislike Serissa


Bart:

Humor may be the intent, but the individuals sounding off are the
some of the
thin skinned people on the list who have caused the loss of several good
artists. These thin skinned people cannot take humor when
directed at them,
but can dish out a wealth of BS.

All we ask is be even be fair and take what comes your way if you
sling stuff
our way.

Also the tones vary and if it is humor, say so, or at least
acknowledge that
someone has done what you cannot.

Bart the above is not directed at you, but at those who know who they are.

Keep on Bonsai :-

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Do not know if this is a slam or that a boy. Either way the intent is to
allow us to learn more from others and not condemn those that achieve what we
are unable to.

Heck I have trouble with black olives, but keep on learning. Hope to keep
them alive this time. But I will never post a condemnation of this tree for
others to use it.

Richard Zieminski
Summerville, SC

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Richard and IBC'ers:
I have and still have several Serissa that I find to be an OK plant, but
have never really tried to figure out why they survive under my hands.
I do know that they like to be cooler than most of my tropic or sub
tropic, so I keep them closer to the floor in my tree house (heated
green house). They enjoy benign neglect. I even have one in the ground
for the last three or four years to fatten it up. It turned into a
clump style and still hasn't thickened enough to bother with it. I have
disdain for this tree, and it obviously doesn't want to leave my care.
Lighten up Richard..... life is too short! :-)

Carl L. Rosner

Richard Zieminski wrote:

Bart:

Humor may be the intent, but the individuals sounding off are the some of the
thin skinned people on the list who have caused the loss of several good
artists. These thin skinned people cannot take humor when directed at them,
but can dish out a wealth of BS.

All we ask is be even be fair and take what comes your way if you sling stuff
our way.

Also the tones vary and if it is humor, say so, or at least acknowledge that
someone has done what you cannot.

Bart the above is not directed at you, but at those who know who they are.

Keep on Bonsai :-)

Richard Zieminski
Summerville, SC
"if you have a problem ask someone who's mind is not clouded with knowledge"
- Dr. Zieminski




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But I will never post a condemnation of this tree . . .

Why on Earth not? The tree doesn't care. (Assuming, of course,
that Serissa are trees -- which they're not.)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Charter
member, former president, and chief cheerleader, IHSC.

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1) Beginners like them because of the "thousand flowers," buy them,
and then pester me on my website about why they are dropping all) For
their leaves.* And I have to be nice, and not say things like GOOD
RIDDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH.* They are not good plants for beginners.
They are demoralizing.* And they smell bad.

Well, as many know from my experience this was truly my first bonsai ever and
my first trial and success with rooting.


2) For nonbeginners, they are not inspiring bonsai material (except
if Suthin does them).* Where is the trick in doing a bonsai from a
twiggy shrub with tiny leaves??????* Big deal.* When I had one, I
actually wished it would die so I could buy something more worthwhile.

As for now I still consider myself a beginner with almost five years of study
and practice. I do not know where the "twiggy shrub" and "tiny leaves"
comes from. For one they are not a "twiggy shrub" thank you very much. With
time, work, and knowledge they do develop great trunks. As for the "tiny
leaves" isn't that part of bonsai, leaf reduction. Yeah they do start out
small but, if one who has had one live knows they can grow bigger leaves, if
one is not careful. So continue to wish for the death of them, if the slim
chance of me rising one day they will be with me.


3) You can't say anything about them without first writing "Serrissa"
"Serrisa" and "Serissa" to remember how to spell the word.* Then you
have to spell foetida.* Forget the whole damn thing, people.* Buy a
fig.

Well, than, SERISSA FOETIDA. Well I guess I just like the so called
challenge of them so they will always live in my collection. Forget a Fig,
wheres the challenge in that since they are almost impossible to kill. From
the knowledge and personal view of my mentor, figs do recover from physical
harm greatly.

By eight tonight I will post my prized tree with a picture of the first
cuttings made to it and one from last season. The tree is still under five
years old.

"A thousand stars tonight, a thousand stars tomorrow, Serissa foetida will
live and shine always"
Derek Zieminski
Summerville, SC
Zone *A



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Why I Dislike Serissa.....

Because.... it is one of the 'HOT Buttons' that take this group off the deep
end.....

GET OVER IT!

Jay

I do not know where the "twiggy shrub" and "tiny leaves"
comes from. For one they are not a "twiggy shrub" thank you very
much.

Hmm. . .

From Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants: "Serissa foetida .
.. . is a SMALL, rounded, 3 foot to 4 foot high, FINE TEXTURED
(read, "twiggy") evergreen SHRUB with dark green leaves and . .
.."

From Botanica: "Serissa . . . an evergreen SHRUB to 18 inches
(45 cm) high."

(emphasis added)

With
time, work, and knowledge they do develop great trunks. As for
the "tiny
leaves" isn't that part of bonsai, leaf reduction. Yeah they do
start out
small but, if one who has had one live knows they can grow bigger
leaves, if
one is not careful. So continue to wish for the death of them,
if the slim
chance of me rising one day they will be with me.

I think that what people are saying here is that for the amount
of work you have to put into a Serissa to make it look
"tree-like" you could use an honest-to-goodness tree and have
something that you can be proud of the skill it took to make it.
Part of the skill of bonsai is taking a real tree and putting it
into a small pot and still have that feeling of natural
"tree-ness.". That's a bit different than taking a small-leafed
shrub and putting it in a pot and calling it a tree.

There is nothing wrong with anyone working on Serissa if they
want to. However, some day they'll realize that there is better
bonsai material around them.

"A thousand stars tonight, a thousand stars tomorrow, Serissa
foetida will
live and shine always"

Is the the Serissa grower's anthem? ;-) Does the next line take
on the "foetida" part. ;-)

Have at it, Serissa growers. You may make a believer out of me
yet, but I've seen TWO Serissa in 30 years that _I_ thought
looked like trees.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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Thanks Jim...... I forgot.......... :-)


J

Why I Dislike Serissa.....

Because.... it is one of the 'HOT Buttons' that take this group
off the deep
end.....

GET OVER IT!


Nah. Enjoy. It's 200% better than squirrels. ;-)

Or mallsai.

Oh! I forgot. Serissa ARE mallsai. ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "People,
when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts
and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just
about all gone." -- Uncle Dave Macon, old-time musician

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Boy are you getting out of line or what. "Serissa ARE Mallsai". So are
junipers in that case. We should not grow them since they are shrubs? Many
bonsai's are made out of shrubs not trees. Yes, many are reduced trees of
miniature trees, but many are shrubs.

Stop blowing smoke about serissa. Look in the books and you find them as
bonsai. Just because you cannot grow them or make them look like a tree,
there are others who can. so don't knock them.

Or they may knock on you "trees or shrubs."

;-O ;-)

Richard Zieminski
Summerville, SC

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