How someone got influenced with the African myth *known fact in Africa, that
it keeps insects and fungi away*? There is a big tobacco industry in India,
and I have seen tobacco leave infected with insects and diseased and of
course fungi between the leaves. That remind me of divination of Science
which I crammed during my school days..... "Systematic study of living and
non-living matter observed and verified by experiments".

All dried leaves whether those of tobacco or tea, in fact most organic
matter, when soaked in water at a particular temperature, releases most of
the soluble ingredients whether it is NICOTINE or CAFFENE and also some
pleasant or unpleasant flavor or smell.

All said and done, I don't think there is need of tinkering with Cigarette
butts and other unscientific practices for humus/buffer for moisture
retention.


Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:02 PM
Subject: [IBC] soil


On 2 Nov 2004 at 9:11, Caroll Hermann wrote:

I thought we were talking about how to retain water???? You should
relax,
dear,

1. Sarcasm is un-called for. And impolite.


I also fertilize with tobacco dust. (HORROR OF HORRORS) It is a
well
known fact in Africa, that it keeps insects and fungi away.

2. There is a reason. Nicotine is very toxic. That is VERY
toxic. It absorbs through human skin, and its effects are
cumulative and long-lasting. (And if you are a smoker, too . .
.). "Well-known facts" as often as not turn out to be
apocryphal bunkum.

I know of NO pesticide in North America that still uses nicotine
as an ingredient, tho there may be some. Organic growing
manuals advise against it or _at least_ advise the use of
extreme care.

If you read my
piece without attacking first you would have seen that it also said that


you
need to soak the butts to get the nicotine out. We are just as hyper
about
chemical insecticides as you are about nicotine and prefer the natural
way.


3. I'm sure that Nina -- who is a professional plant/fungi
scientist, a licensed pesticide applicator (and the IBC's "Plant
Doctor" -- see our website) -- did read it carefully. But
nevertheless, I fail to see how soaking will "get the nicotine
out" in any real sense -- and the process of soaking seems more
likely to ensure that you get some of the mess on your hands.

4. Your message told us how YOU do it. That is fine and
perfectly acceptable.

5. However, it is ALSO fine and acceptable for persons on the
list who _know_ that some process is potentially dangerous to
the user to warn others so they are aware of the choice they
face if they elect to follow your advice.


Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

-----Original Message-----
From: Nina Shishkoff ]
Sent: 01 November 2004 15:19
To: Caroll Hermann
Subject: [IBC] soil

YIKES! I don't worry about your bonsai as much as
you: remember that nicotine is very toxic. Don't any
of your patrons drink coffee? Coffee grounds would be
preferable. At any rate, you should try to make a
compost pile!


=====
Nina Shishkoff
Frederick MD

__________________________________________________
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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

How someone got influenced with the African myth *known fact in Africa, that
it keeps insects and fungi away*? There is a big tobacco industry in India,
and I have seen tobacco leave infected with insects and diseased and of
course fungi between the leaves. That remind me of divination of Science
which I crammed during my school days..... "Systematic study of living and
non-living matter observed and verified by experiments".

All dried leaves whether those of tobacco or tea, in fact most organic
matter, when soaked in water at a particular temperature, releases most of
the soluble ingredients whether it is NICOTINE or CAFFENE and also some
pleasant or unpleasant flavor or smell.

All said and done, I don't think there is need of tinkering with Cigarette
butts and other unscientific practices for humus/buffer for moisture
retention.


Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:02 PM
Subject: [IBC] soil


On 2 Nov 2004 at 9:11, Caroll Hermann wrote:

I thought we were talking about how to retain water???? You should
relax,
dear,

1. Sarcasm is un-called for. And impolite.


I also fertilize with tobacco dust. (HORROR OF HORRORS) It is a
well
known fact in Africa, that it keeps insects and fungi away.

2. There is a reason. Nicotine is very toxic. That is VERY
toxic. It absorbs through human skin, and its effects are
cumulative and long-lasting. (And if you are a smoker, too . .
.). "Well-known facts" as often as not turn out to be
apocryphal bunkum.

I know of NO pesticide in North America that still uses nicotine
as an ingredient, tho there may be some. Organic growing
manuals advise against it or _at least_ advise the use of
extreme care.

If you read my
piece without attacking first you would have seen that it also said that


you
need to soak the butts to get the nicotine out. We are just as hyper
about
chemical insecticides as you are about nicotine and prefer the natural
way.


3. I'm sure that Nina -- who is a professional plant/fungi
scientist, a licensed pesticide applicator (and the IBC's "Plant
Doctor" -- see our website) -- did read it carefully. But
nevertheless, I fail to see how soaking will "get the nicotine
out" in any real sense -- and the process of soaking seems more
likely to ensure that you get some of the mess on your hands.

4. Your message told us how YOU do it. That is fine and
perfectly acceptable.

5. However, it is ALSO fine and acceptable for persons on the
list who _know_ that some process is potentially dangerous to
the user to warn others so they are aware of the choice they
face if they elect to follow your advice.


Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

-----Original Message-----
From: Nina Shishkoff ]
Sent: 01 November 2004 15:19
To: Caroll Hermann
Subject: [IBC] soil

YIKES! I don't worry about your bonsai as much as
you: remember that nicotine is very toxic. Don't any
of your patrons drink coffee? Coffee grounds would be
preferable. At any rate, you should try to make a
compost pile!


=====
Nina Shishkoff
Frederick MD

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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************************************************** **************************
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+++++



************************************************** **************************
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************************************************** **************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Nikotine is very toxic for many living organisms
like chlorine for life in general
if you use nicotine on aphids it works well if you use chlorine you
kill aphids and plant

so fungi live evyrwhere some of them are sensible to some
chemicals some are not and needs others chemicals
like deseases you do not cure eveyrthing with the same antibiotic..
as simple as that
and anyway teh concentration of teh alkalod has its impotace
bitter alamonds contains cianure
if you eat one or few you do not die
if you eat a kilo probably you will get poisoned







Anil Kaushik wrote:

How someone got influenced with the African myth *known fact in Africa, that
it keeps insects and fungi away*? There is a big tobacco industry in India,
and I have seen tobacco leave infected with insects and diseased and of
course fungi between the leaves. That remind me of divination of Science
which I crammed during my school days..... "Systematic study of living and
non-living matter observed and verified by experiments".

All dried leaves whether those of tobacco or tea, in fact most organic
matter, when soaked in water at a particular temperature, releases most of
the soluble ingredients whether it is NICOTINE or CAFFENE and also some
pleasant or unpleasant flavor or smell.

All said and done, I don't think there is need of tinkering with Cigarette
butts and other unscientific practices for humus/buffer for moisture
retention.


Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:02 PM
Subject: [IBC] soil



On 2 Nov 2004 at 9:11, Caroll Hermann wrote:


I thought we were talking about how to retain water???? You should

relax,

dear,

1. Sarcasm is un-called for. And impolite.



I also fertilize with tobacco dust. (HORROR OF HORRORS) It is a

well

known fact in Africa, that it keeps insects and fungi away.

2. There is a reason. Nicotine is very toxic. That is VERY
toxic. It absorbs through human skin, and its effects are
cumulative and long-lasting. (And if you are a smoker, too . .
.). "Well-known facts" as often as not turn out to be
apocryphal bunkum.

I know of NO pesticide in North America that still uses nicotine
as an ingredient, tho there may be some. Organic growing
manuals advise against it or _at least_ advise the use of
extreme care.


If you read my
piece without attacking first you would have seen that it also said that



you

need to soak the butts to get the nicotine out. We are just as hyper

about

chemical insecticides as you are about nicotine and prefer the natural

way.

3. I'm sure that Nina -- who is a professional plant/fungi
scientist, a licensed pesticide applicator (and the IBC's "Plant
Doctor" -- see our website) -- did read it carefully. But
nevertheless, I fail to see how soaking will "get the nicotine
out" in any real sense -- and the process of soaking seems more
likely to ensure that you get some of the mess on your hands.

4. Your message told us how YOU do it. That is fine and
perfectly acceptable.

5. However, it is ALSO fine and acceptable for persons on the
list who _know_ that some process is potentially dangerous to
the user to warn others so they are aware of the choice they
face if they elect to follow your advice.


Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson


-----Original Message-----
From: Nina Shishkoff ]
Sent: 01 November 2004 15:19
To: Caroll Hermann
Subject: [IBC] soil

YIKES! I don't worry about your bonsai as much as
you: remember that nicotine is very toxic. Don't any
of your patrons drink coffee? Coffee grounds would be
preferable. At any rate, you should try to make a
compost pile!


=====
Nina Shishkoff
Frederick MD

_______________________________________________ ___
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.783 / Virus Database: 529 - Release Date: 2004/10/25

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Version: 6.0.783 / Virus Database: 529 - Release Date: 2004/10/25



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****

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************************************************** **************************
****

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--

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail

+++++


************************************************** **************************
****

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************************************************** **************************
****

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************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

--
MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Nikotine is very toxic for many living organisms
like chlorine for life in general
if you use nicotine on aphids it works well if you use chlorine you
kill aphids and plant

so fungi live evyrwhere some of them are sensible to some
chemicals some are not and needs others chemicals
like deseases you do not cure eveyrthing with the same antibiotic..
as simple as that
and anyway teh concentration of teh alkalod has its impotace
bitter alamonds contains cianure
if you eat one or few you do not die
if you eat a kilo probably you will get poisoned







Anil Kaushik wrote:

How someone got influenced with the African myth *known fact in Africa, that
it keeps insects and fungi away*? There is a big tobacco industry in India,
and I have seen tobacco leave infected with insects and diseased and of
course fungi between the leaves. That remind me of divination of Science
which I crammed during my school days..... "Systematic study of living and
non-living matter observed and verified by experiments".

All dried leaves whether those of tobacco or tea, in fact most organic
matter, when soaked in water at a particular temperature, releases most of
the soluble ingredients whether it is NICOTINE or CAFFENE and also some
pleasant or unpleasant flavor or smell.

All said and done, I don't think there is need of tinkering with Cigarette
butts and other unscientific practices for humus/buffer for moisture
retention.


Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:02 PM
Subject: [IBC] soil



On 2 Nov 2004 at 9:11, Caroll Hermann wrote:


I thought we were talking about how to retain water???? You should

relax,

dear,

1. Sarcasm is un-called for. And impolite.



I also fertilize with tobacco dust. (HORROR OF HORRORS) It is a

well

known fact in Africa, that it keeps insects and fungi away.

2. There is a reason. Nicotine is very toxic. That is VERY
toxic. It absorbs through human skin, and its effects are
cumulative and long-lasting. (And if you are a smoker, too . .
.). "Well-known facts" as often as not turn out to be
apocryphal bunkum.

I know of NO pesticide in North America that still uses nicotine
as an ingredient, tho there may be some. Organic growing
manuals advise against it or _at least_ advise the use of
extreme care.


If you read my
piece without attacking first you would have seen that it also said that



you

need to soak the butts to get the nicotine out. We are just as hyper

about

chemical insecticides as you are about nicotine and prefer the natural

way.

3. I'm sure that Nina -- who is a professional plant/fungi
scientist, a licensed pesticide applicator (and the IBC's "Plant
Doctor" -- see our website) -- did read it carefully. But
nevertheless, I fail to see how soaking will "get the nicotine
out" in any real sense -- and the process of soaking seems more
likely to ensure that you get some of the mess on your hands.

4. Your message told us how YOU do it. That is fine and
perfectly acceptable.

5. However, it is ALSO fine and acceptable for persons on the
list who _know_ that some process is potentially dangerous to
the user to warn others so they are aware of the choice they
face if they elect to follow your advice.


Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson


-----Original Message-----
From: Nina Shishkoff ]
Sent: 01 November 2004 15:19
To: Caroll Hermann
Subject: [IBC] soil

YIKES! I don't worry about your bonsai as much as
you: remember that nicotine is very toxic. Don't any
of your patrons drink coffee? Coffee grounds would be
preferable. At any rate, you should try to make a
compost pile!


=====
Nina Shishkoff
Frederick MD

_______________________________________________ ___
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.783 / Virus Database: 529 - Release Date: 2004/10/25

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.783 / Virus Database: 529 - Release Date: 2004/10/25



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************************************************** **************************
****

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--

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail

+++++


************************************************** **************************
****

++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++


************************************************** **************************
****

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

--
MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Nikotine is very toxic for many living organisms
like chlorine for life in general
if you use nicotine on aphids it works well if you use chlorine you
kill aphids and plant


I can't recall how many times we've been through this before,
but it is a VERY bad idea to use nicotine as a pesticide --
ESPECIALLY do-it-yourself concoctions whose potency you have no
way of measuring as which are quite likely to slop onto your
skin during preparation!

Anyway:

From: Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening (which, normally is much
in favor of so-called "natural" pesticides):

"Nicotine is a highly poisonous alkaloid extracted from . .
..tobacco selected for its high nicotine content. As
insecticides, nicotine products are poisonous to most plant
pets, including aphids, mealy bugs, scales and spider mites.
*Nicotine is also highly toxic to mammals when taken internally
or absorbed through the skin -- more toxic than many synthetic
pesticides.* (emphasis added. And, please note that WE are
mammals.) It remains toxic on leaf surfaces for several weeks
after application. Also, nicotine products may contain the
pathogen that causes tobacco mosaic virus in related plants . .
.. ."

What they don't mention because it's not appropriate to the
subject is the long-term, after-the-fact effects of nicotine on
mammalian organisms. You can get sick WELL after you have
forgotten you ever came in contact with the stuff.

From: Sunset's "Garden Pests and Diseases:"

"Nicotine sulfate

"Extracted from tobacco plants, nicotine is so poisonous that
it's not available to home gardeners in its pure form.
Suppliers sell only nicotine sulfate, a formulation that's
slightly less toxic but still potentially fatal if inhaled,
ingested, or absorbed through the skin. . . . Nicotine kills
soft-bodied sucking pests . . . ."

snip


so fungi live evyrwhere some of them are sensible to some
chemicals some are not

AND, some of which (fungi) are especially important to the GOOD
health and well-being of plants (including your bonsai).

snip

I might also add here that nicotine not only kills BAD bugs, it
kills good ones, too -- and, maybe, your cat.

There are so many, properly prepared, well-tested,
environmentally safe (when used properly) pesticides available
today, I can't imagine why anyone would be so stupid as to play
with fire of this type!

BIG snip.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - WISHING
that people would snip their messages. I deleted "two feet" of
junk material from the end of this message!

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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Jim Lewis wrote:

Nikotine is very toxic for many living organisms
like chlorine for life in general
if you use nicotine on aphids it works well if you use chlorine you
kill aphids and plant



I can't recall how many times we've been through this before,
but it is a VERY bad idea to use nicotine as a pesticide --
ESPECIALLY do-it-yourself concoctions whose potency you have no
way of measuring as which are quite likely to slop onto your
skin during preparation!


one minute nobody is going to take synthetized concentrate nicotine to
make our own pesticine
one shoudl be mad to do so
I think that we are talking with people with common sense
if you throw a cigarett butt in a small water pond where are
mosquitos larvaes they will die ..
this can be done...

if you take your cigarett butts ( tehy have concentarte nicotine as
smoke what is left from what you inhaled :-D)
and make them simmer in water and spry it on your pests -aphods it
might work well and stinl as well too

and all the experimentaions should stop here !




Anyway:

From: Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening (which, normally is much
in favor of so-called "natural" pesticides):
snip

"Extracted from tobacco plants, nicotine is so poisonous that
it's not available to home gardeners in its pure form.
Suppliers sell only nicotine sulfate, a formulation that's
slightly less toxic but still potentially fatal if inhaled,
ingested, or absorbed through the skin. . . . Nicotine kills
soft-bodied sucking pests . . . ."

and people are still smoking after reading that?


so fungi live evyrwhere some of them are sensible to some
chemicals some are not

AND, some of which (fungi) are especially important to the GOOD
health and well-being of plants (including your bonsai).
of course but in here it was a common undertstemente that we are
talking of Evil fungy :-D


I might also add here that nicotine not only kills BAD bugs, it
kills good ones, too -- and, maybe, your cat.
well it talkes ( according what I read many years ago
one drop on ha horse skin to provoke high fever
in the '40 chewed cigars and put the the cheweed parts under arm
pits could provoke high fewer and kill crab lice..
I always heard it bzût never tested personally :-)


There are so many, properly prepared, well-tested,
environmentally safe (when used properly) pesticides available
today, I can't imagine why anyone would be so stupid as to play
with fire of this type!

exactly , but I heard in an amercian film that someone

used a product against aphids, and that was containing nicoztine to

kill a love partner .
the way is very pornographic ..ah these hollwoodian TV films ...:-)



so Nocotine is NO NO!
have a nice evening
Day 1 of Bush-land era


MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Jim Lewis wrote:

Nikotine is very toxic for many living organisms
like chlorine for life in general
if you use nicotine on aphids it works well if you use chlorine you
kill aphids and plant



I can't recall how many times we've been through this before,
but it is a VERY bad idea to use nicotine as a pesticide --
ESPECIALLY do-it-yourself concoctions whose potency you have no
way of measuring as which are quite likely to slop onto your
skin during preparation!


one minute nobody is going to take synthetized concentrate nicotine to
make our own pesticine
one shoudl be mad to do so
I think that we are talking with people with common sense
if you throw a cigarett butt in a small water pond where are
mosquitos larvaes they will die ..
this can be done...

if you take your cigarett butts ( tehy have concentarte nicotine as
smoke what is left from what you inhaled :-D)
and make them simmer in water and spry it on your pests -aphods it
might work well and stinl as well too

and all the experimentaions should stop here !




Anyway:

From: Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening (which, normally is much
in favor of so-called "natural" pesticides):
snip

"Extracted from tobacco plants, nicotine is so poisonous that
it's not available to home gardeners in its pure form.
Suppliers sell only nicotine sulfate, a formulation that's
slightly less toxic but still potentially fatal if inhaled,
ingested, or absorbed through the skin. . . . Nicotine kills
soft-bodied sucking pests . . . ."

and people are still smoking after reading that?


so fungi live evyrwhere some of them are sensible to some
chemicals some are not

AND, some of which (fungi) are especially important to the GOOD
health and well-being of plants (including your bonsai).
of course but in here it was a common undertstemente that we are
talking of Evil fungy :-D


I might also add here that nicotine not only kills BAD bugs, it
kills good ones, too -- and, maybe, your cat.
well it talkes ( according what I read many years ago
one drop on ha horse skin to provoke high fever
in the '40 chewed cigars and put the the cheweed parts under arm
pits could provoke high fewer and kill crab lice..
I always heard it bzût never tested personally :-)


There are so many, properly prepared, well-tested,
environmentally safe (when used properly) pesticides available
today, I can't imagine why anyone would be so stupid as to play
with fire of this type!

exactly , but I heard in an amercian film that someone

used a product against aphids, and that was containing nicoztine to

kill a love partner .
the way is very pornographic ..ah these hollwoodian TV films ...:-)



so Nocotine is NO NO!
have a nice evening
Day 1 of Bush-land era


MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

so Nocotine is NO NO!
have a nice evening
Day 1 of Bush-land era


Oh, aargh! I was happy 'till then. :-(

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jim Lewis wrote:

so Nocotine is NO NO!
have a nice evening
Day 1 of Bush-land era



Oh, aargh! I was happy 'till then. :-(

Do not worry be happy it might be worse !:-D

MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Jim Lewis wrote:

so Nocotine is NO NO!
have a nice evening
Day 1 of Bush-land era



Oh, aargh! I was happy 'till then. :-(

Do not worry be happy it might be worse !:-D

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«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

I might also add here that nicotine not only kills BAD bugs, it
kills good ones, too -- and, maybe, your cat.
well it talkes ( according what I read many years ago
one drop on ha horse skin to provoke high fever
in the '40 chewed cigars and put the the cheweed parts under arm
pits could provoke high fewer and kill crab lice..
I always heard it bzût never tested personally :-)

Didya know that one cigarette butt is enough to kill a baby if it happens to
chew on it? Gave me the creeps!!!
Fortunately, I do not smoke...

Ulrike Bauer
South Germany, zone 7b

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I might also add here that nicotine not only kills BAD bugs, it
kills good ones, too -- and, maybe, your cat.
well it talkes ( according what I read many years ago
one drop on ha horse skin to provoke high fever
in the '40 chewed cigars and put the the cheweed parts under arm
pits could provoke high fewer and kill crab lice..
I always heard it bzût never tested personally :-)

Didya know that one cigarette butt is enough to kill a baby if it happens to
chew on it? Gave me the creeps!!!
Fortunately, I do not smoke...

Ulrike Bauer
South Germany, zone 7b

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++