Fellow enthusiasts for Bonsai.

If you saw a beautiful picture on eBay and it was described as a
"STUNNING BONSAI" schefflera and it arrived and turned out to be just a
big plant that had cut off branches as thick as your index finger from
which were sprouted small branches, would you call this a Bonsai?

When I complained about what I bought he responded "Bonsai stems from
two japanese words that mean potted plant." He claims that this big,
cut-back plant in a small pot is a Bonsai.

Please help me with definitions that I can send to him to rebut his
statement. Strong negative feedback to eBay is pending your assistance.

Thanks for the help.

Mark R. Ensign
Amarillo, Texas

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Mark,

No matter what the outcome I suggest that you leave very strong negative feedback.
Unfortunately there are some bad people out there and that makes it hard for
everyone. I don't think you can do anything about it, you might try someone higher
up at Ebay.

I personally feel that what you described is not a bonsai. From all I have read and
all the pictures I have seen, this does not fit the bill. While bonsai does have
"small pot" in it's meaning, it is my opinion that it means "small tree in pot". I
think this is somebody's get rich quick scheme.

Be sure you take pictures of your "tree" while it is still healthy and keep a
picture diary of the poor thing. Most "mallsai" is just what you have described.
Chopped all over including chopped roots. This means that it will probably die
soon.

"Mark R. Ensign" wrote:

Fellow enthusiasts for Bonsai.

If you saw a beautiful picture on eBay and it was described as a
"STUNNING BONSAI" schefflera and it arrived and turned out to be just a
big plant that had cut off branches as thick as your index finger from
which were sprouted small branches, would you call this a Bonsai?

When I complained about what I bought he responded "Bonsai stems from
two japanese words that mean potted plant." He claims that this big,
cut-back plant in a small pot is a Bonsai.

Please help me with definitions that I can send to him to rebut his
statement. Strong negative feedback to eBay is pending your assistance.

Thanks for the help.

Mark R. Ensign
Amarillo, Texas

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some snippage here

" When I complained about what I bought he responded "Bonsai stems from
two japanese words that mean potted plant." He claims that this big,
cut-back plant in a small pot is a Bonsai."

eBay does not make it too easy but look around the help section and try to
find "Safe Harbor"
or any links pointing to settling disputes. There may be some help within
this area for you, but no guarantee.

You can leave a negative, or a neutral response but remember you are limited
to about 80 spaces, letters or characters. Can you fully explain the
response in limited space? I'd pursue it but withold the response as long
as possible, pending a resolve from seller or eBay.

Good Luck,

Olde Hippie

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to reply direct remove number from addy

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts will"
"I prefer to perambulate to the tempo of a different percussionist"
"Stupidity is believing much, while understanding little"
....Charles A. Meyers

Hi Mark
I agree with you even a geranium in a bonsai pot could be defined a " bonsai"
if one is so dishonest to say that it is true..
if I compare what i sow 25 years ago in the market and what we find now I would
say that what we find now are mere plants potted in a bonsai pot .. and
anything more than that ..
but useless to start a a crusade .. but you are right
Theo

"Mark R. Ensign" wrote:

Fellow enthusiasts for Bonsai.

If you saw a beautiful picture on eBay and it was described as a
"STUNNING BONSAI" schefflera and it arrived and turned out to be just a
big plant that had cut off branches as thick as your index finger from
which were sprouted small branches, would you call this a Bonsai?

When I complained about what I bought he responded "Bonsai stems from
two japanese words that mean potted plant." He claims that this big,
cut-back plant in a small pot is a Bonsai.

Please help me with definitions that I can send to him to rebut his
statement. Strong negative feedback to eBay is pending your assistance.

Thanks for the help.

Mark R. Ensign
Amarillo, Texas

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

--

In a message dated 7/24/2003 10:20:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

If you saw a beautiful picture on eBay and it was described as a
"STUNNING BONSAI" schefflera and it arrived and turned out to be just a
big plant that had cut off branches as thick as your index finger from
which were sprouted small branches, would you call this a Bonsai?

Do you think the plant has Bonsai potential?
Bonsai's are frequently designed from big plants with larger branches that
are cut off to create ramification (smaller branches)
Members of the list have frequently conceded that Bonsai is in the eye of
the beholder. It is unfortunate when one gives money based upon someone elses
beholding.
Henry VIII married his 5th wife Anne of Clives based upon a painting by
Hans Holben (sp). When she arrived in England, Henry was not happy and the
marriage ended quickly but Anne kept her head.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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While I agree that the seller is being dishonest in portraying this
plant as "STUNNING BONSAI", his argument is not really flawed, just
debatable. His target market are probably people that aren't that
knowledgeable about bonsai and they could think this plant stunning,
until they saw a proper bonsai.

"The Essentials of Bonsai" by the Editors of Shufunomoto has this in the
intro "A bon is a tray or salver, sai is a dependant noun meaning
"grow", and the word bonsai means something growing in a shallow
container, a tree in a pot." Later in the same book they make bonsai
from herbs and grasses, things that we define as accent plantings. There
does seem to be room for movement in the definition.

Anyone buying anything from a marketplace like eBay MUST make absolutely
certain that they know exactly what they are purchasing. Study those
photo's, if they aren't detailed enough email the vendor and ask for
more pictures. Study the vendor's rating. The buyer must beware. If you
do feel that you have been duped, then a threat to make complaint in his
ratings may persuade him to refund your money. I have seen complaints
rubbished by the seller though and people keep buying from them.

I've yet to find anything that I considered enough of a bargain for me
to risk buying from eBay.

Good luck

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales

"Mark R. Ensign" wrote:

Fellow enthusiasts for Bonsai.

If you saw a beautiful picture on eBay and it was described as a
"STUNNING BONSAI" schefflera and it arrived and turned out to be just
a
big plant that had cut off branches as thick as your index finger from
which were sprouted small branches, would you call this a Bonsai?

When I complained about what I bought he responded "Bonsai stems from
two japanese words that mean potted plant." He claims that this big,
cut-back plant in a small pot is a Bonsai.

Please help me with definitions that I can send to him to rebut his
statement. Strong negative feedback to eBay is pending your
assistance.

Thanks for the help.

Mark R. Ensign
Amarillo, Texas


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********
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--

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Anyone buying anything from a marketplace like eBay MUST make
absolutely
certain that they know exactly what they are purchasing. Study
those
photo's, if they aren't detailed enough email the vendor and
ask for
more pictures. Study the vendor's rating. The buyer must
beware. If you
do feel that you have been duped, then a threat to make
complaint in his
ratings may persuade him to refund your money. I have seen
complaints
rubbished by the seller though and people keep buying from
them.

I've yet to find anything that I considered enough of a bargain
for me
to risk buying from eBay.

Good luck

And ditto for me. I don't think you can get him on his
definition. Literally he is accurate. There's an assumed
"artistic" (or at least "attractive") in front of the word "tree"
in "tree-in-a-pot" but beauty is in the eye of the beholder (as I
think Billy stated).

I will repeat what I have said befo E-Bay is a damned poor
place to purchase bonsai (and, frankly, bonsai appurtenances,
like pots or tools) unless you KNOW who you are buying from --
and that's almost "know" in the Biblical sense ;-).

I've looked, but have never bought -- and don't think I've missed
much that was worthwhile.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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If what you got was NOT what was in the picture, and they did not warn
you about that, then you have a beef. Honestly, I think you probably
got what you paid for, unless you paid more than $35 or so. "Real
bonsai" like what this list is dedicated to helping people with ... is
not cost-effective at a price much lower than $50 even when
mass-produced. What you got was a cutting from a commercial
greenhouse in a pretty pot. I can find those at KMart and Home Depot
for $15-$30 depending on how big it is and how nice the pot. The pot
is likely worth more than the plant. Now be sure to get the glued
rocks off of it and get it outside in the shade pronto ... and caveat
emptor !


(Billy M. Rhodes) wrote in message ...
In a message dated 7/24/2003 10:20:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

If you saw a beautiful picture on eBay and it was described as a
"STUNNING BONSAI" schefflera and it arrived and turned out to be just a
big plant that had cut off branches as thick as your index finger from
which were sprouted small branches, would you call this a Bonsai?

Do you think the plant has Bonsai potential?
Bonsai's are frequently designed from big plants with larger branches that
are cut off to create ramification (smaller branches)
Members of the list have frequently conceded that Bonsai is in the eye of
the beholder. It is unfortunate when one gives money based upon someone elses
beholding.
Henry VIII married his 5th wife Anne of Clives based upon a painting by
Hans Holben (sp). When she arrived in England, Henry was not happy and the
marriage ended quickly but Anne kept her head.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Members of the list have frequently conceded that Bonsai is in the eye of
the beholder. It is unfortunate when one gives money based upon someone
else's
beholding.
Henry VIII married his 5th wife Anne of Clives based upon a painting by
Hans Holben (sp). When she arrived in England, Henry was not happy and the
marriage ended quickly but Anne kept her head.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

OK Craig, I stand corrected.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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