Oh! this brings up some possibilities!

I had several hackberry in the ground. I took some
out and one got away from me. I have done several
major cutbacks on it. It now is about 18" to 20" tall
with a 10" nebari, and 5" trunk. It has sprouts all
over and a semblance of taper from the last big cut.
We are cutting the major big roots one at a time and
hoping for roots of the cut, live end (Hormoned and
packed with sphagnum befor re covering with soil) I
wondered what I could do about the cut. First
inclination was to put it in back, but with the
threadlike branch sprouts I could hollow out the cut
when we dig it up! Then shorten to about 10" using the
nicely tapered trunk and tiny branches. I shoulda
taken pictures.

Kistune Miko

Kitsune Miko

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...What I need to know is how much "live" wood do I need to leave
for safe fluid transport? I'd like the hollow to be as
thin-walled as possible.
Jim Lewis
----------------------------

I dunno about Liquidambar, but I had a Chinese elm (sold recently) that I
completely hollowed out after finding the entire trunk body to be rotten.
The trunk was about 3" or 4" in diameter and no portion of the trunk wall
was more than 1/4" thick.
Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge


In most trees, only the outermost few rings are active in water transport. The inner core of the tree is mostly dead, and mostly serves as a structural core.

Nina. My structural core keeps thickening....

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Hi all,

Of course, it pays to know the anatomy of the wood so you make
the cuts
parallel with the xylem, thereby maximizing the efficiency of
the wood
that's remaining. I assume Liquidamber does not have twisting
xylem, like
some conifers, so you can probably assume a straight
up-and-down water flow.

I find this quite interesting specially because I have killed
some junipers
after doing some major carving. Could some one post a list of
twisting vs.
straight xylem species? Guess this would be useful for the
beginners like me.


I may (read: am quite likely to) be wrong, but I don't think it
is necessarily species specific. I think you just have to look
hard at the tree. Except in the youngest specimens, twists
usually are viewable on the outside.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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I may (read: am quite likely to) be wrong, but I don't think it
is necessarily species specific. I think you just have to look
hard at the tree. Except in the youngest specimens, twists
usually are viewable on the outside.

I think it's a mixture of nature and nurture. I seem to recall that there are some cultivars of pomegranite that have twisting xylem, and these are prized by bonsaija. And I think some pine species always spiral. But in many cases, the environment of th
e tree shapes its development. But as you say, you can look at the bark and tell.

Often, if you look at maples planted in the city, in autumn half the tree will turn red before the other; usually it is the side fed by roots that are under pavement. Those roots are water-stressed, and all the branches fed by those roots are also stresse
d.

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Hi Nina. You note,
In most trees, only the outermost few rings are active
in water transport. The inner core of the tree is mostly
dead, and mostly serves as a structural core.

A twisting trunk appears to have a "thicker" thickness of live wood in an
example just posted on the IBC Potensai Gallery entitled "twisted trunk."
Am I reading the layers correctly there?

Thanks.

Chris... , Richmond VA USA

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-----Original Message-----

A twisting trunk appears to have a "thicker" thickness of live wood in an
example just posted on the IBC Potensai Gallery entitled "twisted trunk."
Am I reading the layers correctly there?


Yikes! What a tree! Is it... um.... alive? Because with that bark beetle damage, I'd be willing to bet that none of that wood is functional.

I don't think you can judge the thickness of the living layer from evidence like that, because the part that looks like it's healed over the dead part is curved; all you are seeing is the outermost skin. All you can tell from that tree is that it suffered
a trauma and healed over, but the part that healed over may be dead now in the innermost sections.


Provisos: first, some tree rings are quite wide, so 3 or 4 of them would constitute a couple inches. In other trees, like bristlecones, the rings are very very thin. Second, *all* xylem is dead when functional- it's plumbing, and works by a mechanical p
rocess. The "ray cells" in wood are the living part. The xylem stops working because it gets plugged up with resin, because the layers closer to the surface crush it, or because it gets clogged with bacteria.

Nina

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How much live material you leave would depend on how much growth you wish to
maintain from the remaining parts of the trunk obviously the wood you remove
from the middle will have no affect on the trees growth. If you are removing
live material lengthwize up the front of the tree lets say, then you wouldn't
have any live material to concerned with, because you would be removing it
anyway. sounds like nice design.I would love to see it when its done

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I reread your thread, about going 2/3 up the tree. I would think it would
depend on the roots that you leave on the remaining live tree material. You state
that it is partially rotted at the base The remaining material has to have
enough root to support the tree. I would only be concerned if you plan to remove
more mateial from the base. The I would just make sure you leave enough roots
to support the tree growth

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I reread your thread, about going 2/3 up the tree. I would
think it would
depend on the roots that you leave on the remaining live tree
material. You state
that it is partially rotted at the base The remaining material
has to have
enough root to support the tree. I would only be concerned if
you plan to remove
more mateial from the base. The I would just make sure you
leave enough roots
to support the tree growth


Thanks, Steve.

All my cutting will be above the natural cavity in the base. I
don't really think this is "rotted" per se, or if it is, the tree
had walled it off years ago. Bark folds all around inside the
cavity and at the bottom -- when you repot the tree and hold it
up to the light, bare root, you can see a fairly sizeable
"window" through the bottom. It's like the stump grew up around
a post, and someone pulled the post. ;-)

I'll post pictures when I'm "done" -- assuming there's still a
live tree to post pictures of. I stripped bark from the area I'm
going to carve away yesterday and will let the wood dry for a
week before I start working on it with my little Dremel.
Otherwise, the wood burrs up -- which is OK, but it offends my
sensibilities (and we can't have that, can we?).

Sweetgum roots are few and far between, anyway so I'll be doing
it slowly; we'll all have a few more gray hairs before I'm
"done."

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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Hi Nina. You asked,
Yikes! What a tree! Is it... um.... alive? Because
with that bark beetle damage, I'd be willing to bet
that none of that wood is functional.
It is alive. The only photo I have of it captures it at the end of a
foreground precipice (lower left & not easily recognized) standing before a
larger scene [posted on Potensai Gallery].

Thanks for the great explanation of resin flow & dysfuntion, live wood
thickness, etc.. BTW, residents say the pinion pines are quickly being
denuded by beetles. Junipers far outnumber pines in both exposed and
protected areas.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA USA

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SNIP
It's like the stump grew up around
a post, and someone pulled the post. ;-)
------
Hmm...I've got a Chinese Elm that has had the post removed. This was
discovered during it's initial repot about 4 inches below the soil surface.
Maybe I'll watch your pictures and find out what to do with the area I have
currently partially buried; raising it up as the roots grow and develop
underneath.

--
Denise Hurd a.k.a. the Bride
Central CA - Sunset Zone 8-USDA Zone 9