hi...

First off don't take it personally. I'm no expert but I've been doing
this a few years and I've had a little Serissa experience. I've heard
everything from they're easy to they're impossible. Personally I've had
three with two still being alive. The third was the nicest (of course)
and one day out of nowhere sections of the tree dried up and died until
it was all gone. From my standpoint if you look at them wrong they die.
Seriously if you are not overwatering it should be ok. The two I still
have sometimes will drop a third of their leaves for no apparent reason.
There may be better advice out here but I would not do anything radical
until you see what happens next. I would not spray it again until it
stabilizes or has an insect problem. What exactly was the "dishwasher
solution"? If was just dish soap and water it should be no problem.
Serissa seem to not like change so I tend not to move them very much .
I use natural light so I can't help much with the lighting portions. In
my experience it will either fix itself or die outright no matter what
you do. Hang in there and do not do anything radical. It would help
here to know what part of the country you are from.

Hope this helps a little.

wmcorcor

== -----Original Message-----
== From: Internet Bonsai Club
== ] On Behalf Of Jim
== Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:09 PM
== To:
== Subject: [IBC] Serissa dying - help!
==
== I bought a serissa a few months ago. We were told to spray
== it with dishwasher solution to kill any potential bugs. We
== did that few months ago and about 1/3 of the leaves died.
== After that we put it under a full-spectrum incadescent
== light bulb. Leaves continue to fall and some of the leaves
== turn brown, as if they are burning, and some even turn
== darker shade of brown, almost black. We only water it when
== the soil is dry, every 3-4 days. We give it grow light for
== about 14 hours from a distance of 16-24" and spray it once a day.
==
== What is causing the leaves to go burn and go brown? Why
== are so many leaves dropping? Some branches have no leaves
== at all now.
==
== ************************************************** **********
== ********************
== ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
== ************************************************** **********
== ********************
== -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
== -- --
== +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
== +++++
==

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

X-No-archive: yes

I am in Canada. The diswasher soap that was sprayed was Dawn. There
is very little sunlight here during winter hence the grow light. The
question is what is causing the leaves to burn and turn brown and even
black? Thanks.

j

On 30 Jan 2004 19:44:40 -0800, (Corcoran. Bil)
wrote:

hi...

First off don't take it personally. I'm no expert but I've been doing
this a few years and I've had a little Serissa experience. I've heard
everything from they're easy to they're impossible. Personally I've had
three with two still being alive. The third was the nicest (of course)
and one day out of nowhere sections of the tree dried up and died until
it was all gone. From my standpoint if you look at them wrong they die.
Seriously if you are not overwatering it should be ok. The two I still
have sometimes will drop a third of their leaves for no apparent reason.
There may be better advice out here but I would not do anything radical
until you see what happens next. I would not spray it again until it
stabilizes or has an insect problem. What exactly was the "dishwasher
solution"? If was just dish soap and water it should be no problem.
Serissa seem to not like change so I tend not to move them very much .
I use natural light so I can't help much with the lighting portions. In
my experience it will either fix itself or die outright no matter what
you do. Hang in there and do not do anything radical. It would help
here to know what part of the country you are from.

Hope this helps a little.

wmcorcor

In a message dated 1/31/2004 8:15:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

I am in Canada. The diswasher soap that was sprayed was Dawn. There
is very little sunlight here during winter hence the grow light. The
question is what is causing the leaves to burn and turn brown and even
black? Thanks.

Two comments. First, don't spray unless you see bugs. Second, the
plant doesn.t like being indoors. Where is it in the house?
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

X-No-archive: yes

I am in Canada. The diswasher soap that was sprayed was Dawn.
There
is very little sunlight here during winter hence the grow
light. The
question is what is causing the leaves to burn and turn brown
and even
black? Thanks.

I try not to get into serissa (or indoor) questions, but . . .

First, what proportions of soap and water did you use? The
normal preparation for a soap spray is one tablespoon per GALLON
of water, which isn't much. If it was much more than that, you
probably left a lot of soap in the soil and it may be having a
toxic reaction with the tree's roots. Serissa are SO DARNED
SENSITIVE! They need to get a life!

I recall you saying you watered every 3-4 days. That sounds
pretty good, but do you check the soil before you water? It
should be barely damp to the touch, or even dry. Your
description of brown-turning-black leaves is typical of a root
problem, and the most common root problem is too much water and
rotted roots.

What kind of soil is it in? And, oh yes, are there rocks glued
onto the top of the soil?

As the tree is probably leafless now, it will want less water
since it no longer is transpiring through the leaves.

_I_ would lift the tree from its pot and take a close look at the
roots. They should be yellow-brown and firm, not black and
soggy-crumbly.

Others have already told you that Serissa lose their leaves when
you even look cross-eyed at them, but this sounds more serious;
usually the leaves just turn yellow and drop off. Then they
immediately (almost) resprout.

Good luck.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

X-No-archive: yes

First, what proportions of soap and water did you use? The
normal preparation for a soap spray is one tablespoon per GALLON
of water, which isn't much. If it was much more than that, you
probably left a lot of soap in the soil and it may be having a
toxic reaction with the tree's roots. Serissa are SO DARNED
SENSITIVE! They need to get a life!

This might explain the whole thing. It seems the mixture was too
concentrated. Also the watering was done by placing it in a few
inches of water so the soil never got a chance to wash out. Lot of
the leaves fell into the plant too and some of the soap residue might
have gone into the soil because the leaf drop seems to have
accelerated recently. Plant is not robust enough to replant but we
did replace the soil on the outside. I am wondering if we can give
the soil a good wash by watering it from the top for a few minutes.
Will this be too much water?

I recall you saying you watered every 3-4 days. That sounds
pretty good, but do you check the soil before you water? It
should be barely damp to the touch, or even dry. Your
description of brown-turning-black leaves is typical of a root
problem, and the most common root problem is too much water and
rotted roots.

I water it after testing the soil by inserting the finger about 1/2"
deep. If it is damp then it is not watered.

What kind of soil is it in? And, oh yes, are there rocks glued
onto the top of the soil?

It was in soild that came orignially with the plant. I am not sure
about "rocks glued onto ..." What do you mean by that?

As the tree is probably leafless now, it will want less water
since it no longer is transpiring through the leaves.

Noted.

_I_ would lift the tree from its pot and take a close look at the
roots. They should be yellow-brown and firm, not black and
soggy-crumbly.

The roots seem fine.

Others have already told you that Serissa lose their leaves when
you even look cross-eyed at them, but this sounds more serious;
usually the leaves just turn yellow and drop off. Then they
immediately (almost) resprout.

Strange thing is that there is a little bit of growth but when leaves
get bigger they die out. Also some of the leaves are
disproportionately large but that is because they are close to the
light source.

Thanks.

j

Two comments. First, don't spray unless you see bugs. Second, the
plant doesn.t like being indoors. Where is it in the house?

It is in an area that gets lot of indirect light, close to a warm mist
humdifier (4 feet) and also an air filter (2 feet which is partly
directed toward the tree as the air is sent out in all directions).
There is an aritifical light source 12 hrs/day.

In a message dated 1/31/2004 7:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

It is in an area that gets lot of indirect light, close to a warm mist
humidifier (4 feet) and also an air filter (2 feet which is partly
directed toward the tree as the air is sent out in all directions).
There is an artificial light source 12 hrs/day.

What room of the house?

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/31/2004 7:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

It is in an area that gets lot of indirect light, close to a warm mist
humidifier (4 feet) and also an air filter (2 feet which is partly
directed toward the tree as the air is sent out in all directions).
There is an artificial light source 12 hrs/day.

What room of the house?

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 31 Jan 2004 16:18:47 -0800, (Billy M. Rhodes)
wrote:

In a message dated 1/31/2004 7:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

It is in an area that gets lot of indirect light, close to a warm mist
humidifier (4 feet) and also an air filter (2 feet which is partly
directed toward the tree as the air is sent out in all directions).
There is an artificial light source 12 hrs/day.

What room of the house?

Living room. Just moved the air filter device away so there isn't a
constant air flow. Who know what might provoke these Serissas!

j

In a message dated 1/31/2004 8:45:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Living room. Just moved the air filter device away so there isn't a
constant air flow. Who know what might provoke these Serissas!

Unless the air flow has chemicals like air freshener in it, it should be
good for the plant.
The living room is an OK location, but indoor heated, dehumidified air is not
healthy for people or plants.
It sounds to me like your Serissa is just being a Serissa. Fickle.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/31/2004 8:45:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Living room. Just moved the air filter device away so there isn't a
constant air flow. Who know what might provoke these Serissas!

Unless the air flow has chemicals like air freshener in it, it should be
good for the plant.
The living room is an OK location, but indoor heated, dehumidified air is not
healthy for people or plants.
It sounds to me like your Serissa is just being a Serissa. Fickle.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/31/2004 8:45:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Living room. Just moved the air filter device away so there isn't a
constant air flow. Who know what might provoke these Serissas!

Unless the air flow has chemicals like air freshener in it, it should be
good for the plant.
The living room is an OK location, but indoor heated, dehumidified air is not
healthy for people or plants.
It sounds to me like your Serissa is just being a Serissa. Fickle.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Leaves have been burned out by acids from soap and incandescence bulbs
if you can make a Cold shelter like a Cardboard box put it inside
and cover with Transparent plastic to make a sort of show window case
Serissa should live actually between -5 to+ 14 ° Celsius degress no
more in the winther time I mean -- Put the pot inside a box filled
with peat to protect from hard winter cold or if she has lost most of
leaves you can put it even in a dark cold room like a garage or in the
basement
keep the soil moist but not soggy
will sprout again
Theo

Jim wrote:

X-No-archive: yes

I am in Canada. The diswasher soap that was sprayed was Dawn. There
is very little sunlight here during winter hence the grow light. The
question is what is causing the leaves to burn and turn brown and even
black? Thanks.

j

On 30 Jan 2004 19:44:40 -0800, (Corcoran. Bil)
wrote:


hi...

First off don't take it personally. I'm no expert but I've been doing
this a few years and I've had a little Serissa experience. I've heard
everything from they're easy to they're impossible. Personally I've had
three with two still being alive. The third was the nicest (of course)
and one day out of nowhere sections of the tree dried up and died until
it was all gone. From my standpoint if you look at them wrong they die.
Seriously if you are not overwatering it should be ok. The two I still
have sometimes will drop a third of their leaves for no apparent reason.
There may be better advice out here but I would not do anything radical
until you see what happens next. I would not spray it again until it
stabilizes or has an insect problem. What exactly was the "dishwasher
solution"? If was just dish soap and water it should be no problem.
Serissa seem to not like change so I tend not to move them very much .
I use natural light so I can't help much with the lighting portions. In
my experience it will either fix itself or die outright no matter what
you do. Hang in there and do not do anything radical. It would help
here to know what part of the country you are from.

Hope this helps a little.

wmcorcor




--
EU Zone 7 GE (CH)
S.O.S.Bonsai online @ : or ICQ
25 666 169 4
my bonsais:http://groups.msn.com/BonsaiItalia/ibonsaiditheo.msnw
Membro di : Internet Bonsai Society. I.B.S USA; F.F.B (BE)E.E.B.F (
FR);F.R.J.B(CH)

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:44:40 +0100, Theo wrote:

Leaves have been burned out by acids from soap and incandescence bulbs
if you can make a Cold shelter like a Cardboard box put it inside
and cover with Transparent plastic to make a sort of show window case
Serissa should live actually between -5 to+ 14 ° Celsius degress no
more in the winther time I mean -- Put the pot inside a box filled
with peat to protect from hard winter cold or if she has lost most of
leaves you can put it even in a dark cold room like a garage or in the
basement
keep the soil moist but not soggy
will sprout again

It seems that it is almost gone. Are you suggesting that if I put it
in near a window, where it is colder, and cover it with a cardboard
box on all sides, thus making it dark, that it will sprout again in
May when summer weather returns? I don't have a basement or a garage.

This might explain the whole thing. It seems the mixture was
too
concentrated. Also the watering was done by placing it in a
few
inches of water so the soil never got a chance to wash out.
Lot of
the leaves fell into the plant too and some of the soap residue
might
have gone into the soil because the leaf drop seems to have
accelerated recently. Plant is not robust enough to replant
but we
did replace the soil on the outside. I am wondering if we can
give
the soil a good wash by watering it from the top for a few
minutes.
Will this be too much water?


Repotting seldom hurts a sick plant, especially if roots are the
problem.

I recall you saying you watered every 3-4 days. That sounds
pretty good, but do you check the soil before you water? It
should be barely damp to the touch, or even dry. Your
description of brown-turning-black leaves is typical of a root
problem, and the most common root problem is too much water
and
rotted roots.

I water it after testing the soil by inserting the finger about
1/2"
deep. If it is damp then it is not watered.

What kind of soil is it in? And, oh yes, are there rocks
glued
onto the top of the soil?

It was in soild that came orignially with the plant. I am not
sure
about "rocks glued onto ..." What do you mean by that?

If you can jam your finger into the soil, there aren't any
rocks -- and if they were there, you'd know it. ;-)


As the tree is probably leafless now, it will want less water
since it no longer is transpiring through the leaves.

Noted.

_I_ would lift the tree from its pot and take a close look at
the
roots. They should be yellow-brown and firm, not black and
soggy-crumbly.

The roots seem fine.

Others have already told you that Serissa lose their leaves
when
you even look cross-eyed at them, but this sounds more
serious;
usually the leaves just turn yellow and drop off. Then they
immediately (almost) resprout.

Strange thing is that there is a little bit of growth but when
leaves
get bigger they die out. Also some of the leaves are
disproportionately large but that is because they are close to
the
light source.


Gosh, that STILL sounds like a root problem. Those new leaves
are sprouting from the nutrient reserves the tree has stored up
for the winter. The fact that they're dying right away indicates
to me that there's nothing much _beyond_ those reserves. It
doesn't sound to me like there is a lot of hope, but _I_ would
repot into a shallow, LARGER pot (maybe an azalea pot???), using
a coarse bonsai soil, then would set it aside in a cool spot, but
still where it gets at least 12 hours of good light.

BTW, large leaves usually indicate the light level is too LOW --
the tree is trying its darndest to increase the surface area to
allow at least some photosynthesis.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++