I think you have to cut above a growing branch and
hope that you push back buds below that branch. That
would be the safest thing to do and take time to
develop a new shape.

I was in Praha last week.

Kitsune Miko
--- XdjipsterX wrote:
hi everyone
this autumn i've collected LARGE beech ...and i want
to make it smaller...
how to do it!?!?
just take a saw and cut it at lower point and than
put some (dunno how to
say it in engleish) but some kind of gardening wax
onto cuted area to
prevent drying?!
and there is no branches below cut area ...will the
tree survive or I have
to cut above few branches!?!?
thanx
ivan
croatia


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Rutledge++++

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Kitsune's method is the safest but you can also cut it back to the stump
that you want to develop your new branches from. Don't just leave them
as flat saw cuts, hollow a little with a chisel and seal all the cuts.
Low temperature melt wax (for grafting) or cut paste will do. Beech
reliably throw many, many buds from ancient bark. That is so long as you
have collected enough fibrous root to support it and it survives
collection.

Cheers

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Kitsune Miko
Sent: 22 March 2004 21:23
To:
Subject: [IBC] collected beech

I think you have to cut above a growing branch and
hope that you push back buds below that branch. That
would be the safest thing to do and take time to
develop a new shape.

I was in Praha last week.

Kitsune Miko
--- XdjipsterX wrote:
hi everyone
this autumn i've collected LARGE beech ...and i want
to make it smaller...
how to do it!?!?
just take a saw and cut it at lower point and than
put some (dunno how to
say it in engleish) but some kind of gardening wax
onto cuted area to
prevent drying?!
and there is no branches below cut area ...will the
tree survive or I have
to cut above few branches!?!?
thanx
ivan
croatia


************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken
Rutledge++++

************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** **********************
********
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--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

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This is a great and timely thread, as I just did a scouting trip and found a whole bunch of beeches in the woods near my home last week. I have a
number of beech in my yard as understory trees, and wondered if they would respond to bonsai treatment. It is good to see that they will. I will be
out this week with shovel in hand to do some collecting....thanks for the advice!

-----Original Message-----
From: kevin bailey ]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:23 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] collected beech


Kitsune's method is the safest but you can also cut it back to the stump
that you want to develop your new branches from. Don't just leave them
as flat saw cuts, hollow a little with a chisel and seal all the cuts.
Low temperature melt wax (for grafting) or cut paste will do. Beech
reliably throw many, many buds from ancient bark. That is so long as you
have collected enough fibrous root to support it and it survives
collection.

Cheers

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Kitsune Miko
Sent: 22 March 2004 21:23
To:
Subject: [IBC] collected beech

I think you have to cut above a growing branch and
hope that you push back buds below that branch. That
would be the safest thing to do and take time to
develop a new shape.

I was in Praha last week.

Kitsune Miko
--- XdjipsterX wrote:
hi everyone
this autumn i've collected LARGE beech ...and i want
to make it smaller...
how to do it!?!?
just take a saw and cut it at lower point and than
put some (dunno how to
say it in engleish) but some kind of gardening wax
onto cuted area to
prevent drying?!
and there is no branches below cut area ...will the
tree survive or I have
to cut above few branches!?!?
thanx
ivan
croatia


************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken
Rutledge++++

************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** **********************
********
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--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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This is a great and timely thread, as I just did a scouting trip
and found a whole bunch of beeches in the woods near my home last
week. I have a
number of beech in my yard as understory trees, and wondered if
they would respond to bonsai treatment. It is good to see that
they will. I will be
out this week with shovel in hand to do some collecting....thanks
for the advice!

---------------------------

At least on the USA side of the Atlantic, beech are not
understory trees. In my area of the country, beech-magnolia is
one of the so-called "climax forests" -- the more or less stable
woodland that an undisturbed ecosystem might evolve to. Beech
(Fagus grandifolia) are one of the largest trees in these woods,
though Magnolia grandifolia (the same species name HAS to be a
coincidence!) often is the taller at 40M to the beech's 30M; the
beech often may have the broader trunk at a bit more than 1 M.

Beech large enough to make nice bonsai (and our beech's leaves
are so large they pretty much have to be a largish one) are very
tough to dig up successfully in my experience.

We're well past collecting season down here, for most trees, but
perhaps not the beech -- which have yet to leaf out.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

One thing to be aware of is that beeches throw their roots out horizontally.
If you dig in close to their trunks, you will probably lose your prize.
Even if you dig a large root ball, you could also run into trouble. Select
small trees rather than those with fat trunks and you might have a fighting
chance.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gratton"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:19 PM
Subject: [IBC] collected beech


This is a great and timely thread, as I just did a scouting trip and found
a whole bunch of beeches in the woods near my home last week. I have a
number of beech in my yard as understory trees, and wondered if they would
respond to bonsai treatment. It is good to see that they will. I will be
out this week with shovel in hand to do some collecting....thanks for the
advice!

-----Original Message-----
From: kevin bailey ]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:23 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] collected beech


Kitsune's method is the safest but you can also cut it back to the stump
that you want to develop your new branches from. Don't just leave them
as flat saw cuts, hollow a little with a chisel and seal all the cuts.
Low temperature melt wax (for grafting) or cut paste will do. Beech
reliably throw many, many buds from ancient bark. That is so long as you
have collected enough fibrous root to support it and it survives
collection.

Cheers

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Kitsune Miko
Sent: 22 March 2004 21:23
To:
Subject: [IBC] collected beech

I think you have to cut above a growing branch and
hope that you push back buds below that branch. That
would be the safest thing to do and take time to
develop a new shape.

I was in Praha last week.

Kitsune Miko
--- XdjipsterX wrote:
hi everyone
this autumn i've collected LARGE beech ...and i want
to make it smaller...
how to do it!?!?
just take a saw and cut it at lower point and than
put some (dunno how to
say it in engleish) but some kind of gardening wax
onto cuted area to
prevent drying?!
and there is no branches below cut area ...will the
tree survive or I have
to cut above few branches!?!?
thanx
ivan
croatia


************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken
Rutledge++++

************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

---
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************************************************** **************************
****
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


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************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Michael Gratton wrote:
This is a great and timely thread, as I just did a scouting trip and found a
whole bunch of beeches in the woods near my home last week. I have a number
of beech in my yard as understory trees, and wondered if they would respond
to bonsai treatment. It is good to see that they will. I will be out this
week with shovel in hand to do some collecting....thanks for the advice!

Michael - which side of the pond are you on? The common European beech (F.
sylvatica) of which the original question was asked, seems to be more robust
than the North American F. grandifolia. It also has smaller leaves and denser
twigging, tho F.g. works fine if you make a largish tree, or a small group.

Go right ahead and dig, if your "understory" beech are smallish and haven't yet
started to push their buds. I would second Marty's advice to dig a wide flattish
rootball. If the surface soil is fluffy and leafy, leave it *intact* after
digging, and just place them into slightly deeper pots with fresh soil all
around. I had 100% survival with a number of beech (American) with 1/2 to 1 inch
trunks for a forest (but lost them 2 years later from insufficient watering in a
warm bright autumn). Steady moderate moisture and partial shade for aftercare.

Oh, and if you have "upperstory" beech as well, be sure your saplings aren't
really root sprouts! These often have great taper but aren't really diggable.
Tho I always wondered if you could ground-layer them just above the connection
to the "mother" root...

Anita
Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6
Go forth under the open sky, and list
To Nature's teachings.
- William Cullen Bryant

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************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

--- Anita Hawkins wrote:
Oh, and if you have "upperstory" beech as well, be
sure your saplings aren't
really root sprouts! These often have great taper
but aren't really diggable.
Tho I always wondered if you could ground-layer them
just above the connection
to the "mother" root...

Anita


I have had success by cutting the contact with the
mother tree, waiting a year, making another cut on the
opposite side of the sprout and digging the third
year. Of course the stuff was in my back yard.

Kitsune Miko

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thanks to all for the great advice. I am in Atlanta, on the west side of the pond, I guess. On my scoping run (actually a nice leisurely walk with my
9 year old), we found dozens of beech in the 2-4 foot range, which I will grow on in large pots for a couple of years. We have so much oak, gum and
pine here (100 ft and above) that the beech are almost always understory, so Jim's reference to 30 ft beech really is amazing to me...I will let you
know how these turn out.

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Anita Hawkins ]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:19 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] collected beech


Michael Gratton wrote:
This is a great and timely thread, as I just did a scouting trip and found a
whole bunch of beeches in the woods near my home last week. I have a number
of beech in my yard as understory trees, and wondered if they would respond
to bonsai treatment. It is good to see that they will. I will be out this
week with shovel in hand to do some collecting....thanks for the advice!

Michael - which side of the pond are you on? The common European beech (F.
sylvatica) of which the original question was asked, seems to be more robust
than the North American F. grandifolia. It also has smaller leaves and denser
twigging, tho F.g. works fine if you make a largish tree, or a small group.

Go right ahead and dig, if your "understory" beech are smallish and haven't yet
started to push their buds. I would second Marty's advice to dig a wide flattish
rootball. If the surface soil is fluffy and leafy, leave it *intact* after
digging, and just place them into slightly deeper pots with fresh soil all
around. I had 100% survival with a number of beech (American) with 1/2 to 1 inch
trunks for a forest (but lost them 2 years later from insufficient watering in a
warm bright autumn). Steady moderate moisture and partial shade for aftercare.

Oh, and if you have "upperstory" beech as well, be sure your saplings aren't
really root sprouts! These often have great taper but aren't really diggable.
Tho I always wondered if you could ground-layer them just above the connection
to the "mother" root...

Anita
Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6
Go forth under the open sky, and list
To Nature's teachings.
- William Cullen Bryant

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thanks to all for the great advice. I am in Atlanta, on the west side of the pond, I guess. On my scoping run (actually a nice leisurely walk with my
9 year old), we found dozens of beech in the 2-4 foot range, which I will grow on in large pots for a couple of years. We have so much oak, gum and
pine here (100 ft and above) that the beech are almost always understory, so Jim's reference to 30 ft beech really is amazing to me...I will let you
know how these turn out.

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Anita Hawkins ]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:19 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] collected beech


Michael Gratton wrote:
This is a great and timely thread, as I just did a scouting trip and found a
whole bunch of beeches in the woods near my home last week. I have a number
of beech in my yard as understory trees, and wondered if they would respond
to bonsai treatment. It is good to see that they will. I will be out this
week with shovel in hand to do some collecting....thanks for the advice!

Michael - which side of the pond are you on? The common European beech (F.
sylvatica) of which the original question was asked, seems to be more robust
than the North American F. grandifolia. It also has smaller leaves and denser
twigging, tho F.g. works fine if you make a largish tree, or a small group.

Go right ahead and dig, if your "understory" beech are smallish and haven't yet
started to push their buds. I would second Marty's advice to dig a wide flattish
rootball. If the surface soil is fluffy and leafy, leave it *intact* after
digging, and just place them into slightly deeper pots with fresh soil all
around. I had 100% survival with a number of beech (American) with 1/2 to 1 inch
trunks for a forest (but lost them 2 years later from insufficient watering in a
warm bright autumn). Steady moderate moisture and partial shade for aftercare.

Oh, and if you have "upperstory" beech as well, be sure your saplings aren't
really root sprouts! These often have great taper but aren't really diggable.
Tho I always wondered if you could ground-layer them just above the connection
to the "mother" root...

Anita
Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6
Go forth under the open sky, and list
To Nature's teachings.
- William Cullen Bryant

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

marty haber wrote:

One thing to be aware of is that beeches throw their roots out horizontally.
If you dig in close to their trunks, you will probably lose your prize.
Even if you dig a large root ball, you could also run into trouble. Select
small trees rather than those with fat trunks and you might have a fighting
chance.
Marty

And, they don't often have a lot of fine roots near the trunk, at least from what
I've seen.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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Thanks to all for the great advice. I am in Atlanta, on the west
side of the pond, I guess. On my scoping run (actually a nice
leisurely walk with my
9 year old), we found dozens of beech in the 2-4 foot range,
which I will grow on in large pots for a couple of years. We have
so much oak, gum and
pine here (100 ft and above) that the beech are almost always
understory, so Jim's reference to 30 ft beech really is amazing
to me...I will let you
know how these turn out.

===========

Y'all come on down. I have 3 or 4 on my place that _almost_
reach that height. ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

You should see new growth all over the tree soon. Just lave it grow this summer. Next year be selective in the branches you want. The tree should have branching all over it this year. Beech responds well to a Heavy cut like that.
This Spring I am doing that to a Red Japanese Maple that is being dug up and was offered to me. the truck is %" at the base , but has no low branches. I'll cut it back just like you did. I am sure it will grow branches all over. I will decide what branch
es I'll keep next year.
SteveW
Long Island NY

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I think beech is a great tree to work with because it responds wel to rough treatment.It will push out new growth all over the tree after a heavy cut. It response as well as Maples. A tree wound seal is a good idea. I use Johnny wax. I have done this with
Larch and Liquidamber also.
SteveW
Long Island NY

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