Xref: news7 rec.arts.bonsai:57818

I have just recently found a handmade pot ina thrift store. It is a
small bowl, about 4 inches across, light brown raw finish. It is not
perfectly symetrical, but it is signed in asian script inside next to
the hole. Is this anything special?
Thanks, Brian

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/25/2003 8:09:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

I have just recently found a handmade pot in a thrift store. It is a
small bowl, about 4 inches across, light brown raw finish. It is not
perfectly symmetrical, but it is signed in Asian script inside next to
the hole. Is this anything special?
Thanks, Brian


Probably a home made pot by a hobbyist. All the "good" pots I have seen
have the signature outside on the bottom. A good Japanese pot usually has a
"chop" or square/rectangle stamped into the bottom with the name of the
potter. I don't think this pot has any value.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Billy reports that Brian writes (where is that post?):
I have just recently found a handmade pot in
a thrift store. It is a small bowl, about 4 inches
across, light brown raw finish. It is not
perfectly symmetrical, but it is signed in Asian
script inside next to the hole. Is this anything
special?

I collect pots and suiban. I believe my best is a pot signed exactly as you
describe and with holes that appear broken out after firing rather than cut
cleanly before firing. Mine is likely Chinese. The quality of the pot is
evident. Yours could be special depending upon the quality of the pot apart
from the script.

Max Braverman, who Marty Haber recently identified as back from China, is
perhaps the most knowledgeable American enthusiast of old potting kilns.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA USA

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I have just recently found a handmade pot ina thrift store. It
is a
small bowl, about 4 inches across, light brown raw finish. It
is not
perfectly symetrical, but it is signed in asian script inside
next to
the hole. Is this anything special?
Thanks, Brian

It'll be hard for anyone to say without seeing it. Can you post
a few pictures (side view, view from the top/bottom, etc.) on our
gallery in the pottery section?

Find our gallery via the address below.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I have just recently found a handmade pot in a thrift store. It is a small
bowl, about 4 inches across, light brown raw finish. It is not perfectly
symmetrical, but it is signed in Asian script inside next to the hole.
Probably a home made pot by a hobbyist.
I don't think this pot has any value.

I wouldn't say so. It sounds as though it might be perfect for a shohin
literati or the right accent plant. You could always put an African violet in
it.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy M. Rhodes" Subject: [IBC] Pot question


In a message dated 1/25/2003 8:09:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

I have just recently found a handmade pot in a thrift store. It is a
small bowl, about 4 inches across, light brown raw finish. It is not
perfectly symmetrical, but it is signed in Asian script inside next to
the hole. Is this anything special?
Thanks, Brian


Probably a home made pot by a hobbyist. All the "good" pots I have seen
have the signature outside on the bottom. A good Japanese pot usually has
a
"chop" or square/rectangle stamped into the bottom with the name of the
potter. I don't think this pot has any value.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

Sorry Billy, but I have to disagree...
Now, Keeping in mind I HAVE NOT SEEN THIS POT,
but,
A few of the hand-made pots I brought back from Japan ARE signed in hand
script INSIDE the pot, with no "chop"( stamp) on them anywhere. These are
truly hand made by an artist.
We ( bonsai people) think because there is a "chop" on the bottom of a pot
that it's worth something. That is just not so. I have seen MMMAAANNNYYYY
cheap chinese and Japanese manufactured pots with stamps on the bottom.
Now, I'm talking $2 Chinese pots here!!
Personally, I'd appreciate a hand signed Japanese pot more than some mass
produced pot with a stamp. The finer pots from Tokoname area will have hand
signatures and stamps.
I'd like to see a pic in the gallery. It could be a nice pot brought back
from Japan at some time and slowly worked it's way through an unappreciating
family to a thrift store....
or,
It could be junk.
But, the fact that there is no "chop" doesn't mean a thing. If there WAS a
chop, then WHAT IT SAYS is the only important thing!
Regards,
Dale Cochoy
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Subject: [IBC] Pot question
The quality of the pot is
evident. Yours could be special depending upon the quality of the pot
apart
from the script.

Max Braverman, who Marty Haber recently identified as back from China, is
perhaps the most knowledgeable American enthusiast of old potting kilns.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA USA

Several years ago I bought a couple Very Large Japanese pots off another
dealer for a good price. I wanted to know their value.
I "traced" the stamps on the bottom with pencil/paper and sent them to Jim
Barrett in Ca. with a note describing them very well and with a SASE for
return.
Jim, the great guy he is, researched the stamps, told me what kilns in
Tokoname area and approx. when those colors/styles were made. One was still
being made , one not.
His estimated values a couple years ago were $800-1,100 for one and
$1,100-1,500 for the other as I recall now.
During a show I showed one of them to two importers and heard the same
figure from both as a price for one to be shipped to the US for
resale.....about $1,500.
Dale Cochoy
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Sorry I don't have a digital camera now. I will take it to my next club
meeting however. If I find anything I'll be sure to pass it o to the
list group. Thanks, Brian

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

G'day all...

"...I will take it to my next club meeting..."

Brian...I was about to suggest that...

See you Sunday.

Pat
Dez of the Arizona High Dezert, at 4550', Oracle, AZ,
2000' above Tucson Sunset Zone 10 USDA Zone 8
aka: Pat Patterson 'riding off in all directions'

In a message dated 9/18/2003 9:40:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

I have a sort of semi-training pot for my cedar of Lebanon, about 12 1/2"
long.
It is dark unglazed, probably stoneware but thick and coarse. It is well
made,
with cloud feet. I don't believe it has any marks on the bottom. The person
who
sold it to me swore it is Tokoname ware. Is this possible? It was not
expensive.


As you know Tokoname is a place not a single pottery factory and I am sure
there are pots of different quality made there, but I think that most are
stamped with the makers chop.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Dale Cochoy++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

writes:

I have a sort of semi-training pot for my cedar of Lebanon, about 12
1/2"
long.
It is dark unglazed, probably stoneware but thick and coarse. It is well
made,
with cloud feet. I don't believe it has any marks on the bottom. The
person
who
sold it to me swore it is Tokoname ware. Is this possible? It was not
expensive.

Iris,
The Tokoname AREA turns out pots that are cheap, expensive and really
expensive! Most of the less-expensive cast pots you normally see are from
the area kilns. They are cast jn the same traditional shapes ( and glazed in
same colors) as cast Korean and Chinese pots. Price ( not necessarily
quality) comes in when they are touched more by HAND as in a hand-made,
hand-formed in mold, hand-built, etc. Most area pots I've seen have a stamp
of some type no matter how inexpensive. Some are signed. As I tell people,
it's not that it's stamped or signed, but WHO stamped or signed it!! A guy
in our club thinks a $2 Chinese pot with a stamp on the bottom is really
worth something because it has a "chop on it". Signatures, that's kinda the
same...whose signature is it. I just had sort of a chuckling match last
week when someone was talking about getting a bunch of "signature" pots from
Japan. I'm sure they are probably fine pots and well made ( because I know
him) , but how much more does an unknown ( to us) Japanese guys signature
mean? ( especially if we can't read it). Think about this....aren't ALL
hand-made pots in the USA and Europe "Signature Pots"?? My pots are ALL
signature pots!! The value is in quality and , to some extent, whose
signature.
Look at things like how well it's made, clay quality, firing temp, glaze
quality, stlye, shape, drainage, wiring holes, etc, etc. That stuff tells
you quality, not a stamp or a signature.
BTW, I'm getting very disappointed in these quality, "hand-rubbed" chinese
pots ( That look great) that after a couple months the wax coating ( or
whatever it is) starts drying out on the surface and coming off. Man they
look like crap and require lots of cleaning, oil, brushing to get them back
to looking decent.
Just some thoughts,

Dale "Who makes ONLY signature pots!" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Dale Cochoy++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Iris:

If you bring the pot to me I can take a look at it, perhaps I can
identify it as to its origin.

Tokoname is the name of a city with a long history of ceramics. In
Japan, and perhaps Asia the word "Tokoname" is very famous for toilet
bowls and bathroom fixtures, not bonsai containers. There are many
different levels of quality. Some of the newer Chinese manufactured
bonsai containers are better than some of those made in Tokoname.

Bring the pot, we can look at it together.

Bill

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Dale Cochoy++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++