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#1
13-08-2004, 10:06 AM
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[IBC] need help with azalea I.D.
Try this site.
They have some decent photos. http://www.tytyga.com or this list of nurseries with web sites. http://www.azaleachapter.com/growers.htm Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#3
13-08-2004, 04:49 PM
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Of course, if you can read Japanese, there are even
better resources, but that it unlikely here. ;-) There are over a thousand varieties of satsuki azaleas, so you may find that getting the exact name of your cultivar is like finding a needle in a haystack. If you can figure out which nursery originally sold the azalea to your mother, the best way of identifying it would be to take a sprig with a bloom on it to them next year. However, the best source on azalea taxonomy of which I am aware is a CD available through El Dorado Bonsai called “Satsuki Dictionary.” It can be ordered through their web site at: http://www.edbonsai.com/ El Dorado Bonsai / Enchanted Gardens Nursery and El Dorado Bonsai, Dolly & Fred Fassio, 3201 Newtown Road, Placerville, CA 95667, Appt. only - Re. - Who., (530) 295-0200, (530) 295-2222, At $100 you may find the price is steep, but it is a very good value when you consider all the information which is packed into it. “This Dictionary lists 1106 varieties, Monthly SATSUKI STUDY is used as a reference. From AKANE listed in this Dictionary through WAKUDAMA are the varieties registered between 1994 and 2000.” Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- On 13 Aug 2004 at 3:32, wrote: Hi folks, I thought I'd post a message here and see if anyone can help me. A week ago I dug up a large azalea from the flowerbed at my mother's house. She passed away in January and the house is being sold. I suppose the plant has been in the ground for 15-20 years, but that's only a guess. I was wondering if someone can help me identify it. I'm fairly sure it's some type of satsuki, only because it bloomed vigorously all through June. The flowers are a bright fuscia/pink, and small, about 1¼ " across. They are also a hose-in-hose, no ruffles, but a very standard satsuki shape with 5 distinct star-like petals (only double). I would think that this is some type of domestic variety. I'm sure it came from a garden center or nursery. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful. From: Jim Lewis Go to your public library and check out Fred Galle's "Azaleas." It is the English-speaking-world's bible on Azaleas. It's likely that you can ID your plant there. Galle had a hand in on Ortho's "All About Azaleas (and Rhododendrons?)" too, but it is only a sketch of the big book. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#4
13-08-2004, 07:46 PM
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On 13 Aug 2004 at 10:51, Alan Walker wrote:
snip However, the best source on azalea taxonomy of which I am aware is a CD available through El Dorado Bonsai called “Satsuki Dictionary.” snip At $100 you may find the price is steep, Yup. Unless I specialized in Satsuki bonsai and had more than the dozen or so I have in pots (of 4 varieties, plus a Kurume or two) I'd think that was a LOT expensive just for an ID resource. Besides, of the 1000 plus cultivars listed there, I'd bet less than 20 are even available in North America -- if that many. And I wonder if it even mentions the few Satsuki that have been developed in the west. If there were cultural info (or even bonsai info) that MIGHT make the price more reasonable -- but I doubt it. Fred Galle's book will have to do. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#5
13-08-2004, 08:17 PM
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Jim: Cultural and bonsai information weren't mentioned in the
original question. The Galle book (List Price: $79.95 Amazon Price: $54.37) is a great resource, but doesn't have but a fraction of the color photos of individual cultivars that the Satsuki Dictionary displays in the most user friendly way possible. (I take it that you haven't viewed the Satsuki Dictionary?) If cheap is your objective, then I recommend Great American Azaleas: A Guide to the Finest Azalea Varieties by Jim Darden. (c) 1985. Published by The Greenhouse Press, 1239 Sunset Ave., Clinton, NC 28328. Phone 919-592-3725. Like Fred Galle's book, it has good organizational logic. It also has a lot of color photos for its size (96 pp.). Cost (at least when I bought it) was only $8.95. For cultural and bonsai information, I recommend Alexander Kennedy's books. There is also Bonsai Techniques for Satsuki by Naka, Ota, & Rokkaku, but it is long out of print and fetches very high prices as a rare book. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lewis On 13 Aug 2004 at 10:51, Alan Walker wrote: snip However, the best source on azalea taxonomy of which I am aware is a CD available through El Dorado Bonsai called "Satsuki Dictionary." snip At $100 you may find the price is steep, Yup. Unless I specialized in Satsuki bonsai and had more than the dozen or so I have in pots (of 4 varieties, plus a Kurume or two) I'd think that was a LOT expensive just for an ID resource. Besides, of the 1000 plus cultivars listed there, I'd bet less than 20 are even available in North America -- if that many. And I wonder if it even mentions the few Satsuki that have been developed in the west. If there were cultural info (or even bonsai info) that MIGHT make the price more reasonable -- but I doubt it. Fred Galle's book will have to do. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#6
13-08-2004, 10:15 PM
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On 13 Aug 2004 at 14:17, Alan Walker wrote:
Jim: Cultural and bonsai information weren't mentioned in the original question. The Galle book (List Price: $79.95 Amazon Price: $54.37) is a great resource, but doesn't have but a fraction of the color photos of individual cultivars that the Satsuki Dictionary displays in the most user friendly way possible. (I take it that you haven't viewed the Satsuki Dictionary?) Yeah, I have; one of our club members has it. It's pretty, but since I'll never see or have the opportunity to see perhaps 1,123 of the cultivars covered (and neither will most Japanese growers), it's still ridiculously expensive, and has no other useful info in it that I could see. I have Galle's book, which is why I recommended it. (I also suggested that for someone who wants to ID ONE plant, the library would be a better source. Galle's book is quite likely to have a cultivar available in the USA -- especially one that has been [as the original mssg said] in the ground for a number of years.) And IT has information in it that is helpful in actually GROWING azaleas. If cheap is your objective, then I recommend Great American Azaleas: A Guide to the Finest Azalea Varieties by Jim Darden. (c) 1985. Published by The Greenhouse Press, 1239 Sunset Ave., Clinton, NC 28328. Phone 919-592-3725. Like Fred Galle's book, it has good organizational logic. It also has a lot of color photos for its size (96 pp.). Cost (at least when I bought it) was only $8.95. I'll take a look, but _I_ probably don't need another azalea book. For cultural and bonsai information, I recommend Alexander Kennedy's books. I have 2 of his books. They're OK -- if a bit "English" requiring considerable extrapolation for Florida growing. There is also Bonsai Techniques for Satsuki by Naka, Ota, & Rokkaku, but it is long out of print and fetches very high prices as a rare book. $250, last one I saw. I passed. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#7
13-08-2004, 08:17 PM
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Jim: Cultural and bonsai information weren't mentioned in the
original question. The Galle book (List Price: $79.95 Amazon Price: $54.37) is a great resource, but doesn't have but a fraction of the color photos of individual cultivars that the Satsuki Dictionary displays in the most user friendly way possible. (I take it that you haven't viewed the Satsuki Dictionary?) If cheap is your objective, then I recommend Great American Azaleas: A Guide to the Finest Azalea Varieties by Jim Darden. (c) 1985. Published by The Greenhouse Press, 1239 Sunset Ave., Clinton, NC 28328. Phone 919-592-3725. Like Fred Galle's book, it has good organizational logic. It also has a lot of color photos for its size (96 pp.). Cost (at least when I bought it) was only $8.95. For cultural and bonsai information, I recommend Alexander Kennedy's books. There is also Bonsai Techniques for Satsuki by Naka, Ota, & Rokkaku, but it is long out of print and fetches very high prices as a rare book. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lewis On 13 Aug 2004 at 10:51, Alan Walker wrote: snip However, the best source on azalea taxonomy of which I am aware is a CD available through El Dorado Bonsai called "Satsuki Dictionary." snip At $100 you may find the price is steep, Yup. Unless I specialized in Satsuki bonsai and had more than the dozen or so I have in pots (of 4 varieties, plus a Kurume or two) I'd think that was a LOT expensive just for an ID resource. Besides, of the 1000 plus cultivars listed there, I'd bet less than 20 are even available in North America -- if that many. And I wonder if it even mentions the few Satsuki that have been developed in the west. If there were cultural info (or even bonsai info) that MIGHT make the price more reasonable -- but I doubt it. Fred Galle's book will have to do. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#8
13-08-2004, 07:46 PM
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On 13 Aug 2004 at 10:51, Alan Walker wrote:
snip However, the best source on azalea taxonomy of which I am aware is a CD available through El Dorado Bonsai called “Satsuki Dictionary.” snip At $100 you may find the price is steep, Yup. Unless I specialized in Satsuki bonsai and had more than the dozen or so I have in pots (of 4 varieties, plus a Kurume or two) I'd think that was a LOT expensive just for an ID resource. Besides, of the 1000 plus cultivars listed there, I'd bet less than 20 are even available in North America -- if that many. And I wonder if it even mentions the few Satsuki that have been developed in the west. If there were cultural info (or even bonsai info) that MIGHT make the price more reasonable -- but I doubt it. Fred Galle's book will have to do. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#9
13-08-2004, 01:38 PM
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Thanks for your help guys!
Lauren On 13 Aug 2004 02:06:04 -0700, (Billy M. Rhodes) wrote: Try this site. They have some decent photos. http://www.tytyga.com or this list of nurseries with web sites. http://www.azaleachapter.com/growers.htm Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#10
13-08-2004, 07:59 PM
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Lsuren wrote:
I was wondering if someone can help me identify [a large azalea). I'm fairly sure it's some type of satsuki, only because it bloomed vigorously all through June. The flowers are a bright fuscia/pink, and small, about 1¼ " across. They are also a hose-in-hose, no ruffles, but a very standard satsuki shape with 5 distinct star-like petals (only double). Michael Dirr in Manual of Woody Landscape Plants writes that there are so many azalea cultivars and hybrid groups that it is difficuolt to present all of them. He describes the Satsuki Hybrids as blooming in May for most varieties. They feature many flower forms and many color combinations on one plant. Large flowers appear in mid to late May and June in the Athens [Georgia] area}. I think, but am not sure, that one very obvious characteristic of the Satsuki is many different color blooms appearing on one plant. Maybe someone on the List can enlighten both of us. Carol Schroeder Baltimore Bonsai club ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#11
13-08-2004, 08:21 PM
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Some Satsuki have many different flower forms on the same plant but many
more do not. The name Satsuki means fifth moon or fifth month in Japanese. Most do flower in May but I have one variety (Karenko) that started then and is still in flower now. I recently purchased a Japanese volume that has beautiful colour photographs of approx 1,120 varieties. It is ordered into flower colour and form and can help with identifying varieties but it is a long and slow search. Cheers Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales I think, but am not sure, that one very obvious characteristic of the Satsuki is many different color blooms appearing on one plant. Maybe someone on the List can enlighten both of us. Carol Schroeder Baltimore Bonsai club ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#12
13-08-2004, 08:50 PM
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More significant than different colored flowers on a plant is the bi-color
appearence on each flower in many Satsukis. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Schroeder" To: Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: [IBC] need help with azalea I.D. Lsuren wrote: I was wondering if someone can help me identify [a large azalea). I'm fairly sure it's some type of satsuki, only because it bloomed vigorously all through June. The flowers are a bright fuscia/pink, and small, about 1¼ " across. They are also a hose-in-hose, no ruffles, but a very standard satsuki shape with 5 distinct star-like petals (only double). Michael Dirr in Manual of Woody Landscape Plants writes that there are so many azalea cultivars and hybrid groups that it is difficuolt to present all of them. He describes the Satsuki Hybrids as blooming in May for most varieties. They feature many flower forms and many color combinations on one plant. Large flowers appear in mid to late May and June in the Athens [Georgia] area}. I think, but am not sure, that one very obvious characteristic of the Satsuki is many different color blooms appearing on one plant. Maybe someone on the List can enlighten both of us. Carol Schroeder Baltimore Bonsai club ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#13
13-08-2004, 10:15 PM
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On 13 Aug 2004 at 20:22, kevin bailey wrote:
Some Satsuki have many different flower forms on the same plant but many more do not. The name Satsuki means fifth moon or fifth month in Japanese. Most do flower in May but I have one variety (Karenko) that started then and is still in flower now. Their bloom time depends largely upon where they are grown. By May around here, they've about quit blooming. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#14
13-08-2004, 08:21 PM
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Some Satsuki have many different flower forms on the same plant but many
more do not. The name Satsuki means fifth moon or fifth month in Japanese. Most do flower in May but I have one variety (Karenko) that started then and is still in flower now. I recently purchased a Japanese volume that has beautiful colour photographs of approx 1,120 varieties. It is ordered into flower colour and form and can help with identifying varieties but it is a long and slow search. Cheers Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales I think, but am not sure, that one very obvious characteristic of the Satsuki is many different color blooms appearing on one plant. Maybe someone on the List can enlighten both of us. Carol Schroeder Baltimore Bonsai club ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#15
14-08-2004, 02:36 AM
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Didn't mean to get you all bickering. I'm familiar with Satsuki
somewhat, I have maybe 20 plants in 12-14 varieties. Almost all of mine bloom in June here. I have the Kennedy book, and would consider the ElDorado cd if I could actually see one first, since this is something that interests me. I'll try to find a copy of the Galle book to look at. As I said, I'm sure this is something that was developed for the domestic nursery trade here in the U.S. I can't imagine that Mom would have ever found anything more 'exotic' than that. There are a few buds that may open. If so, I'll try to get some pictures. Thanks again, Lauren P.S. Whoever it was that said they had the 'Karenko', I'd love to get a start if possible! Or find out where I could buy one. Thanks. On 13 Aug 2004 02:06:04 -0700, (Billy M. Rhodes) wrote: Try this site. They have some decent photos. http://www.tytyga.com or this list of nurseries with web sites. http://www.azaleachapter.com/growers.htm Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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