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#2
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Hi Billy Billy M. Rhodes wrote: I think SYENTHIC cultural practices in US is the result of too much hype created for the readymade (lazy-man's) products by the manufacturers and their agents probably with the motive of making profits. Please don't generalize about us. someone taht has nurseries has expenses and loss and do not get millionaire I gues.. so :-) do not get nervous As the mother feed is the best for a baby, likewise mother earth (natural soil) is the best food source for a plant. Highly infected, infested and polluted soil will not support plant life. If the mother is HIV Positive it is not good for the baby and there is no way to clean it up. we are going OT it is not a reasonable example .. it is true that as seeds let by themselves only stronger ones will survive and make strong plants and the othesr wilt and die if you seed 1000 seeds to graft in future or cuttings you prefer to take precautions to loose very little or none of tehm and this is bad for the quality you'll will get especially with seedlings But, as someone said, I am not willing to take the change with a plant I paid good money for. Billy on the Florida Space Coast maybe I misunderstood , what do you prefer a nice new strong well breed selected and more expensive viable tree or a nice looking tree that is doped to look healthy and die in few months later ? quality will remain even if when you will have forgot the price you paid for plants you'll see within months if they are fine with you .. and if they die is your fault.. or maybe was the nursery's fault as the plant was articially kept healthy... and is exausted as forced to look fine?.. we could discuss endlessly but quality has always a price ! MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
#3
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If you carry this "natural" soil argument to its ultimate conclusion, we would
not grow bonsai at all. We would leave all the trees in the woods, live in caves, and eat raw meat. If God didn't want us to develop technology, He would not have given us a large brain and opposable thumbs. Even Betty the crow makes tools. If you don't want to use modern methods which research has developed to grow healthier trees, you don't have to. If your methods work for you, fine. I will continue to use the methods that work for me, including soilless mixes, weekly feeding with organic and inorganic fertilizers, and insecticides whan necessary. And I will continue to keep myself & my plants indoors in the winter. By the way, the products we use in soilless potting media: crushed gravel, bark, perlite, vermiculite, and charcoal, are just as natural as garden dirt, only the charcoal and expanded clay have been heated. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra |
#4
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HI Iris
Iris Cohen wrote: If you carry this "natural" soil argument to its ultimate conclusion, we would not grow bonsai at all. We would leave all the trees in the woods, live in caves, and eat raw meat. technology is one thing but we are going too far in this way why not live into a bubble uniform like astronouts on the moon to avoid contaminations ,breath sterilized air and eat sysnthetic food to live healthier..... in the 1940 1950 in switzerland ( a doctopr friend told me ) was the craze of sterilizations of aptments from microbs and they realized that people were getting sick easier and the *clean apt* than in the normal ones... my little geraniums and maples and pentaphilla and azaleas and roses live in a spartan natural way.. of course I am changing the soil for a better accomodation to my and their needs, as are grown in an already **artificial** environment to stimulate better air curculation and roots development , but I use natural materials if we are too much byby sitting them like over cured kids will grow spolied and get all pests and problems I had plants for years in pots and never changed soil nor added fertilizers beside of some cofféé waste and water for years a and the plants were growing fine .. Here in switzerland we have often the city decoration trees that are in small pots to avoid wild parkings or as decoration and grow natural bonsai and have no cure at all watering when is raining no fertilizer a small pot no drainage no good soil and all pestas that pass by sometimes I make picteures as they are very nice material for bonsais and are often junipers or pines or maples... If God didn't want us to develop technology, He would Please .. let Him where he is .. we are already making enought harm in the world in His name .. not have given us a large brain and opposable thumbs. Even Betty the crow makes tools. it is coincidence next time others species will develope grips and civilization . monkeys are very similar to us but nature did not make a perfetc thumb yet with them we were the following experiment.. and was succesful ..so to say unfortunately we use them to destroy our enviromnements and human fellows.. If you don't want to use modern methods which research has developed to grow healthier trees, you don't have to. mine are healthy in their environment just some aphids & sometimes of mildew if I water too late in the evening in summer If your methods work for you, fine. I will continue to use the methods that work for me, including soilless mixes sure it is your choice , weekly feeding with organic and inorganic fertilizers, and insecticides whan necessary. And I will continue to keep myself & my plants indoors in the winter. it is a forum of discussion not a forum to enforce the know how for bonsai to his members :-) we are still in democracy By the way, the products we use in soilless potting media: crushed gravel, bark, perlite, vermiculite, and charcoal, are just as natural as garden dirt, only the charcoal and expanded clay have been heated. I prefer lava pumice or sand peat and granite and my home made oak leaves compost I have this materials available here as well as akadama but is too expensive lately and the quality is getting poor I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving day MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
#5
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HI Iris
Iris Cohen wrote: If you carry this "natural" soil argument to its ultimate conclusion, we would not grow bonsai at all. We would leave all the trees in the woods, live in caves, and eat raw meat. technology is one thing but we are going too far in this way why not live into a bubble uniform like astronouts on the moon to avoid contaminations ,breath sterilized air and eat sysnthetic food to live healthier..... in the 1940 1950 in switzerland ( a doctopr friend told me ) was the craze of sterilizations of aptments from microbs and they realized that people were getting sick easier and the *clean apt* than in the normal ones... my little geraniums and maples and pentaphilla and azaleas and roses live in a spartan natural way.. of course I am changing the soil for a better accomodation to my and their needs, as are grown in an already **artificial** environment to stimulate better air curculation and roots development , but I use natural materials if we are too much byby sitting them like over cured kids will grow spolied and get all pests and problems I had plants for years in pots and never changed soil nor added fertilizers beside of some cofféé waste and water for years a and the plants were growing fine .. Here in switzerland we have often the city decoration trees that are in small pots to avoid wild parkings or as decoration and grow natural bonsai and have no cure at all watering when is raining no fertilizer a small pot no drainage no good soil and all pestas that pass by sometimes I make picteures as they are very nice material for bonsais and are often junipers or pines or maples... If God didn't want us to develop technology, He would Please .. let Him where he is .. we are already making enought harm in the world in His name .. not have given us a large brain and opposable thumbs. Even Betty the crow makes tools. it is coincidence next time others species will develope grips and civilization . monkeys are very similar to us but nature did not make a perfetc thumb yet with them we were the following experiment.. and was succesful ..so to say unfortunately we use them to destroy our enviromnements and human fellows.. If you don't want to use modern methods which research has developed to grow healthier trees, you don't have to. mine are healthy in their environment just some aphids & sometimes of mildew if I water too late in the evening in summer If your methods work for you, fine. I will continue to use the methods that work for me, including soilless mixes sure it is your choice , weekly feeding with organic and inorganic fertilizers, and insecticides whan necessary. And I will continue to keep myself & my plants indoors in the winter. it is a forum of discussion not a forum to enforce the know how for bonsai to his members :-) we are still in democracy By the way, the products we use in soilless potting media: crushed gravel, bark, perlite, vermiculite, and charcoal, are just as natural as garden dirt, only the charcoal and expanded clay have been heated. I prefer lava pumice or sand peat and granite and my home made oak leaves compost I have this materials available here as well as akadama but is too expensive lately and the quality is getting poor I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving day MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
#6
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Iris
I think you need to go through the posts again. If you carry this "natural" soil argument to its ultimate conclusion, we would not grow bonsai at all. It is a healthy discussion and not an argument. Many Bonsaiest around the world still grow that way. We would leave all the trees in the woods, live in caves, and eat raw meat. That is an overstatement. If God didn't want us to develop technology, He would not have given us a large brain and opposable thumbs. Even Betty the crow makes tools. If you don't want to use modern methods which research has developed to grow healthier trees, you don't have to. If your methods work for you, fine. You are barking the wrong tree! It is because of the large brain and opposite thumbs that we can make Bonsai or recreate *nature in miniature*. In fact Bonsai is an amalgam of Art and Science, and roll of Science and Technology is indispensable in Bonsai practice. One can not do without the Bonsai tools or the knowledge of Science of plants, but Bonsai culture varies from place to place and we should share our perceptions and experiences. I will continue to use the methods that work for me, including soilless mixes, weekly feeding with organic and inorganic fertilizers, and insecticides whan necessary. And I will continue to keep myself & my plants indoors in the winter. Why not, that is your PREROGATIVE. By the way, the products we use in soilless potting media: crushed gravel, bark, perlite, vermiculite, and charcoal, are just as natural as garden dirt, What is garden dirt I don't know, what I mentioned was good FERTILE SOIL from the country side from which grow different crops. Regards Anil Kaushik Bonsai Club (India) Chandigarh "The City Beautiful" ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#7
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Anil Kaushik wrote: What is garden dirt I don't know, what I mentioned was good FERTILE SOIL from the country side from which grow different crops. yoi make me think when in ancient times crops were not pushed to grow as we do today with chemicals and they used to rotate crops as each plant give and take from soils different elements and after a period of cultivation the last was seedled with **medical herb* that was useless for us , excellent to feed animals and had the gift to regenerate the soil with a lot of micronutrients .. some other times the soil was worked when these herbs were tender and their decompostion was excellent for soil fournishing a lot of Azote (N) or burned when dry and their ashes gave P an K mature horse & cow manure were used as fertilizers months before seedlings to let the elemnts reach deep into soil and noz build up salts Plants were mixed so some plants were curing others, tomatoes impeach aphids, garlich plants avoid peach peach tree deseases , aand so on and this has been so for 40 thousand years MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
#8
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There has been much research and commentary on porosity
of soil. It is a given that with the very coarse soil mixes recommended for bonsai, that they will require more frequent watering. How much will still depend on your current climatic conditions. On a hot, cloudless, windy day with low humidity you will have to water more often than on a cool, rainy day. That is why we advise people not to water on a schedule, because conditions vary, even in a single location. As the steward of your bonsai, you will be responsible for making the determination of how often is enough and how much is too much or too little. Your bonsai will let you know if you are right. ;-) A coarse, porous mix will help minimize the risk of root rot. I believe it is much easier to mess up with overwatering than with underwatering though either can be devastating. Overwatering is much more common. If your soil mix is draining quickly, then you'll be safer with more frequent watering or even monsoon rains. The soil mechanics which Brent describes below is an interesting experiment to perform for yourself. You should try it! I attended a workshop a couple of weeks ago by Chuck Ware of Jade Gardens. http://www.wimberley-tx.com/~bonsaijg/ Chuck did a demonstration of these very principles using five different containers of various shapes. It was eye opening to discover that each container held the same volume of soil. Yet, more interesting, was to see that the water perched at about the same level in each pot, just as Brent explains below. So, the cascade container did hold the least amount of moisture, and the broad, low container held the most water. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org __________________________________________________ ________ Anil Absolutely, it is well documented that good container mixes should have about 25% porosity (air space by volume). There are even simple tests you can conduct to measure it. I could post one if anyone is interested. The rate at which the water drains out is only an indication of aeration. The situation is this: Water will drain from a pot of soil until the lowest possible level of saturated soil is reached. No more water will drain out, EVER. The height of this column of saturated soil in the bottom of pot depends upon the nature of the soil, but mostly by the particle size. The finer the soil, the higher the column, and thus the greater the volume of saturated soil (and total volume of water) retained after drainage. Further removal of water is accomplished by transpiration of the plant (water is absorbed by the roots and transported to the leaves). It may not be obvious, but this is the greatest factor in removing water from the soil, evaporation is the secondary factor. You can do some simple experiments to test this. Saturate a common sponge with water and place it flat on your hand until it stops draining. Then tip it vertically, more water will drain. This is because you have increased the height of the saturated column. It will continue to drain until the column height is the same as the flat sponge. From this experiment you can see that the shape of the pot will also affect the amount of water retained. A tall pot will retain LESS water than a low flat pot of the same volume with the same soil. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com -----Original Message----- From: Anil Kaushik Brent Thank you for the comprehensive reply. At last I got the right answer! (Theo also said so and I think he was absolutely correct) Also could you please tell if there are parameters regarding the porosity of Bonsai mixture? Has anybody conducted research or study on *porosity*. If you pour water over gravel, the water will drain out in seconds. And if you do the same on fine grit say with 1 to 2 mm sized particles, it will still drain out quickly. Likewise it will pass out quickly through fine sand (dust free) or may take a little longer. How porous the Bonsai potting mix should be for different climatic conditions? If you have some information please share. Regards Anil Kaushik Bonsai Club (India) Chandigarh "The City Beautiful" __________________________________________________ _______ Anil There have been good responses to your question, but I believe there was only one that was close to my feeling about why you are successful in your regime while we have chosen our soilless route: The answer, I believe is the difference in our climates. I am sure that it is as hard for you to imagine what conditions are like in a temperate climate as it is for me to comprehend growing in the tropics. None the less, I will take a crack at it. The species which you grow and your climate means that there is activity of some sort year round, although I am sure there are periods of slower growth. In temperate climates there are long periods of almost no growth activity whatsoever. What this means is that your soil is in a constant state of wet/dry cycling. That is, water movement is nearly continual. Under such conditions, soil decomposition is minimal, and soil collapse is not much of a problem. But I do note that you repot every year or so. At that rate of repotting, particle degradation would not be a problem even for those of us in a temperate climate. Our repotting rates are usually two to three years, up to ten years or more for pines. This longer period argues for more stable constituents. Additionally, in cold climates, the freeze/thaw cycling in winter is a factor in particle degradation as is the lack of a proper wet/dry cycling during the dormant season. Our soils tend to stay WET for most of the winter, which can be as long as October through March. That is a very long period of inactivity for a mostly inorganic soil. Use of a stable soilless mix insures that aeration is still present during this period, and soil composting is minimal. I seldom notice that my soil collapses much during the growing season for healthy plants, however at the end of a winter where we get 30 inches of rain in three or four months, spring definitely brings signs of soil problems, notably soil levels sinking in nursery containers. Now of course, it is possible for us in the temperate zones to grow in a mix similar to yours, as it is possible for you to grow in soilless mixes. I have never been dogmatic about soil mixes, that is why I try to point out the principles of soil theory rather than a rigid recipe. Each soil recipe is going to require it's own concomitant regime of watering and other environmental care. In the tropics, yours works fine with your cultural practices, in temperate zones we are finding that soilless mixes work best with our cultural practices. If it works, it works. I usually don't even question what a person uses for soil if their trees are healthy. However, when someone isn't satisfied with the growth they are getting, or have a declining tree, the first thing I do is examine the soil. Most times the soil is too heavy in organic and fine material, and so I will recommend a soilless mix. Follow-up has shown me that I am usually right about this, as health and vigor improves. But this is for our climate and our cultural practices. This is a problem in an international forum, so the realization of such and an appropriate disclaimer are usually helpful. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com __________________________________________________ ________ Anil Kaushik wrote: I have not been able to understand why you people do not add natural soil to the Bonsai compost! I don't think it can really create problems when coarse ingredients like turface, grit and bark are there in the mix. Soil provides the basic nutrition to the plants and, in fact, all flora grow in soil. Or is there some other reason for using the soiless compost? In India we use coarse sand/grit, fertile soil and coarse manure in equal parts and all the plants grow well. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#9
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Mark Hill wrote:
Brent; It appears from your drainage logic that my cascade pots should contain soil that is more able to retain water at higher elevations. This logic also suggests that I shouldn't water my cascades as often, and that dryness tests should be performed lower into the soil. Hmmmmmm ..... now you've got me thinking .... maybe I should consider changing the soil in my cascades this spring. Mark I wouldn't go overboard with this phenomenon. If your cascade is doing just fine with your current system, then don't fix something that isn't broke. Just keep it in mind for the future. You can increase the water holding capacity by changing the soil slightly or using a slightly larger pot. Cascade pots typically hold more soil anyhow than low flat pots. So, take all these factors into consideration. Also consider the species. If you have a cascade juniper, they prefer to be on the dry side anyhow. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#10
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Thanks again Brent.
Just so happens that most of my cascades are Junipers, and they seem to be doing fine. But .... You did start me thinking about pot size and drainage characteristics. Something I will consider on future cascades. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Brent Walston Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 8:21 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Microelemnts I wouldn't go overboard with this phenomenon. If your cascade is doing just fine with your current system, then don't fix something that isn't broke. Just keep it in mind for the future. You can increase the water holding capacity by changing the soil slightly or using a slightly larger pot. Cascade pots typically hold more soil anyhow than low flat pots. So, take all these factors into consideration. Also consider the species. If you have a cascade juniper, they prefer to be on the dry side anyhow. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#11
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Thanks again Brent.
Just so happens that most of my cascades are Junipers, and they seem to be doing fine. But .... You did start me thinking about pot size and drainage characteristics. Something I will consider on future cascades. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Brent Walston Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 8:21 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Microelemnts I wouldn't go overboard with this phenomenon. If your cascade is doing just fine with your current system, then don't fix something that isn't broke. Just keep it in mind for the future. You can increase the water holding capacity by changing the soil slightly or using a slightly larger pot. Cascade pots typically hold more soil anyhow than low flat pots. So, take all these factors into consideration. Also consider the species. If you have a cascade juniper, they prefer to be on the dry side anyhow. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#12
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Brent: You'll be surprised to find that the difference in soil
volume between low, flat containers and cascade pots is often pretty negligible. It's an optical illusion which makes us think that. Check it out sometime. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org Mark Hill wrote: Brent; It appears from your drainage logic that my cascade pots should contain soil that is more able to retain water at higher elevations. This logic also suggests that I shouldn't water my cascades as often, and that dryness tests should be performed lower into the soil. Hmmmmmm..... now you've got me thinking.... maybe I should consider changing the soil in my cascades this spring. -----Original Message----- From: Brent Walston Mark I wouldn't go overboard with this phenomenon. If your cascade is doing just fine with your current system, then don't fix something that isn't broke. Just keep it in mind for the future. You can increase the water holding capacity by changing the soil slightly or using a slightly larger pot. Cascade pots typically hold more soil anyhow than low flat pots. So, take all these factors into consideration. Also consider the species. If you have a cascade juniper, they prefer to be on the dry side anyhow. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#13
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Alan Walker wrote: Brent: You'll be surprised to find that the difference in soil volume between low, flat containers and cascade pots is often pretty negligible. It's an optical illusion which makes us think that. Check it out sometime. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org it is a law of physic a flat container retains moist as the container has a flat wide bottom and some holes so the water adhere on a large surface and sticks to grains that touch it ,if you put the same quantity soil in a cylinder and pour onto the same quantity of water with the same surface of holes ( proportionally) the water by the gravity will have a tendency to go down and down until the bottom so the surface that will retain maximum of moist is the flat zone around the drainage hole and the grains adhering to it a easy experience is to water a rectangular pot and wait for the water flow out , when it ends take theh pot and lift one side at 45° for few seconds and you'll see how much water will come out again this is why is adviced to put pots inclined when you have heavy water falls to let the water fall out of drain holes by gravity Mark Hill wrote: Brent; It appears from your drainage logic that my cascade pots should contain soil that is more able to retain water at higher elevations. This logic also suggests that I shouldn't water my cascades as often, and that dryness tests should be performed lower into the soil. Hmmmmmm..... now you've got me thinking.... maybe I should consider changing the soil in my cascades this spring. -----Original Message----- From: Brent Walston Mark I wouldn't go overboard with this phenomenon. If your cascade is doing just fine with your current system, then don't fix something that isn't broke. Just keep it in mind for the future. You can increase the water holding capacity by changing the soil slightly or using a slightly larger pot. Cascade pots typically hold more soil anyhow than low flat pots. So, take all these factors into consideration. Also consider the species. If you have a cascade juniper, they prefer to be on the dry side anyhow. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
#14
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Alan Walker wrote: Brent: You'll be surprised to find that the difference in soil volume between low, flat containers and cascade pots is often pretty negligible. It's an optical illusion which makes us think that. Check it out sometime. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org it is a law of physic a flat container retains moist as the container has a flat wide bottom and some holes so the water adhere on a large surface and sticks to grains that touch it ,if you put the same quantity soil in a cylinder and pour onto the same quantity of water with the same surface of holes ( proportionally) the water by the gravity will have a tendency to go down and down until the bottom so the surface that will retain maximum of moist is the flat zone around the drainage hole and the grains adhering to it a easy experience is to water a rectangular pot and wait for the water flow out , when it ends take theh pot and lift one side at 45° for few seconds and you'll see how much water will come out again this is why is adviced to put pots inclined when you have heavy water falls to let the water fall out of drain holes by gravity Mark Hill wrote: Brent; It appears from your drainage logic that my cascade pots should contain soil that is more able to retain water at higher elevations. This logic also suggests that I shouldn't water my cascades as often, and that dryness tests should be performed lower into the soil. Hmmmmmm..... now you've got me thinking.... maybe I should consider changing the soil in my cascades this spring. -----Original Message----- From: Brent Walston Mark I wouldn't go overboard with this phenomenon. If your cascade is doing just fine with your current system, then don't fix something that isn't broke. Just keep it in mind for the future. You can increase the water holding capacity by changing the soil slightly or using a slightly larger pot. Cascade pots typically hold more soil anyhow than low flat pots. So, take all these factors into consideration. Also consider the species. If you have a cascade juniper, they prefer to be on the dry side anyhow. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
#15
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Theo: You missed the point. I was talking about soil volume.
Brent had already pointed out the water perching level phenomenon. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- Alan Walker wrote: Brent: You'll be surprised to find that the difference in soil volume between low, flat containers and cascade pots is often pretty negligible. It's an optical illusion which makes us think that. Check it out sometime. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org From: Theo It is a law of physic. A flat container retains moist as the container has a flat wide bottom and some holes so the water adhere on a large surface and sticks to grains that touch it, if you put the same quantity soil in a cylinder and pour onto the same quantity of water with the same surface of holes ( proportionally) the water by the gravity will have a tendency to go down and down until the bottom so the surface that will retain maximum of moist is the flat zone around the drainage hole and the grains adhering to it. a easy experience is to water a rectangular pot and wait for the water flow out, when it ends take the pot and lift one side at 45° for few seconds and you'll see how much water will come out again. This is why is adviced to put pots inclined when you have heavy water falls to let the water fall out of drain holes by gravity Mark Hill wrote: Brent; It appears from your drainage logic that my cascade pots should contain soil that is more able to retain water at higher elevations. This logic also suggests that I shouldn't water my cascades as often, and that dryness tests should be performed lower into the soil. Hmmmmmm..... now you've got me thinking.... maybe I should consider changing the soil in my cascades this spring. -----Original Message----- From: Brent Walston Mark I wouldn't go overboard with this phenomenon. If your cascade is doing just fine with your current system, then don't fix something that isn't broke. Just keep it in mind for the future. You can increase the water holding capacity by changing the soil slightly or using a slightly larger pot. Cascade pots typically hold more soil anyhow than low flat pots. So, take all these factors into consideration. Also consider the species. If you have a cascade juniper, they prefer to be on the dry side anyhow. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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[IBC] FW: [IBC] Mastering Technique (Was [IBC] proposal) | Bonsai | |||
[IBC] FW: [IBC] Mastering Technique (Was [IBC] proposal) | Bonsai | |||
[IBC] To: IBC Enforcer (was: [IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?) | Bonsai |